Future EMU Cascades

[tbtc]

That's the plan as it currently stands. The only question is what sort of EMU will be procured to run the services, will it be 350s or a new design entirely? We don't have the definitive answer to that yet as far as I know.

Ideally it'd be the same 125mph tilting EMU that is aquired for Birmingham - Glasgow/Edinburgh (and also for the "fast" Northampton services, to avoid eating up fast WCML paths). But when did things work that logically?
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If e.g. London Midland acquire further 350s, the 323s used in the Birmingham area could go to Northern?

The maths work well, the 26 units would cover the number of diagrams (with a handful to spare). Having a common fleet of Lancashire EMUs for local service could be a good thing too (witness the problems at Northern's Leeds depot when one of the three 321s is out of action)

However, as has been pointed out to me, the three coach 323 would have fewer seats than a four coach Sprinter on the few diagrams that have that capacity, and some stations wouldn't cope with a six coach 323. I hope the electrification means platforms are lengthened.

 

[Whistler40145]

With regards Northern, if one of their Leeds based 321s was out of action, then it was a case of what was spare, 142 or a 150, but hardly ever a 333!

 

[RobShipway]

Ideally it'd be the same 125mph tilting EMU that is aquired for Birmingham - Glasgow/Edinburgh (and also for the "fast" Northampton services, to avoid eating up fast WCML paths). But when did things work that logically?
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The maths work well, the 26 units would cover the number of diagrams (with a handful to spare). Having a common fleet of Lancashire EMUs for local service could be a good thing too (witness the problems at Northern's Leeds depot when one of the three 321s is out of action)

However, as has been pointed out to me, the three coach 323 would have fewer seats than a four coach Sprinter on the few diagrams that have that capacity, and some stations wouldn't cope with a six coach 323. I hope the electrification means platforms are lengthened.

I think you will find that this might be further Class 380 City Desiro's, but with 2+2 seating and tables, instead of the 3+2.

 

[Blindtraveler]

well if they take the trubble to ask the punters then they'll learn that a certain dislike of 185s would make an electric variant of same a bad choice as far as complaints go. Something biger, 125mph and tilting urgently needed.

That's the plan as it currently stands. The only question is what sort of EMU will be procured to run the services, will it be 350s or a new design entirely? We don't have the definitive answer to that yet as far as I know.

 

[tbtc]

With regards Northern, if one of their Leeds based 321s was out of action, then it was a case of what was spare, 142 or a 150, but hardly ever a 333!

Practically no chance of a 333 in Doncaster, despite SYPTE paying for the "fourth" coach...

Because the only Northern units which can drag a failed 321 are other 321s it means if two are crocked then the other unit can't be used either (and there aren't a lot of spare DMUs to cover, leading to a few trains being short formed). Hope this explains my dislike of small fleets and desire to have bigger "standard" fleets at TOCs.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Practically no chance of a 333 in Doncaster, despite SYPTE paying for the "fourth" coach...

Because the only Northern units which can drag a failed 321 are other 321s it means if two are crocked then the other unit can't be used either (and there aren't a lot of spare DMUs to cover, leading to a few trains being short formed). Hope this explains my dislike of small fleets and desire to have bigger "standard" fleets at TOCs.

Happened the other day. Except it wasnt short formed it was cancelled. Only one 321 was out and about. (i say other day i mean 26th feb so a month ago) unluckily it meant a pacer there and bcak from leeds to fitzwilliam to see railtour

 

[Whistler40145]

I presume it's the intention of DfT not to have DMUs working Manchester-Glasgow/Edinburgh services?

If insufficient EMUs are available for local services, what chance of hiring in Class 90s with Mark III Stock & DVTs as an interim option?

 

[ukrob]

I presume it's the intention of DfT not to have DMUs working Manchester-Glasgow/Edinburgh services?

If insufficient EMUs are available for local services, what chance of hiring in Class 90s with Mark III Stock & DVTs as an interim option?

As has already been stated, it is envisaged to run these services with 350s, completely separate from Northern Rail and Northern Rails stock.

I doubt there will be any interim measure - they will just keep the 185s running it until EMUs are available.

 

[MCR247]

If insufficient EMUs are available for local services, what chance of hiring in Class 90s with Mark III Stock & DVTs as an interim option?

What MK3s are these? I'm not even sure you'd be able to get that many 90s...

 

[ainsworth74]

What MK3s are these? I'm not even sure you'd be able to get that many 90s...

Plenty of DVTs I seem to recall so at least we've got a third of the equipment needed!

 

[Whistler40145]

Correct me if I am wrong, I was under the impression that the Anglia TOC had been handing back Mark III stock, as they were using EMUs.

 

[MCR247]

Sorry, but NXEA haven't handed any Mark 3s back AFAIAA

 

[Whistler40145]

Oh well!

 

[swt_passenger]

Correct me if I am wrong, I was under the impression that the Anglia TOC had been handing back Mark III stock, as they were using EMUs.

NXEA were apparently going to disband one rake of coaches and use them to augment some others with an extra carriage. So to maintain the same number of diagrams there will have to be one particular service covered by EMUs, but that's not the sort of thing you're suggesting, I believe.

You may be thinking of the proposal in the Anglia RUS to eventually use 5 car AC EMUs in multiple (like 444s) - but that's far into the future if it was to ever happen - probably when the Mk3 stock is considered life expired.

 

[RobShipway]

What about any Irish Mk3's to be converted?

 

[tbtc]

What about any Irish Mk3's to be converted?

I thought Chiltern were meant to be interested in some.

However, it does look desperate at a time when the railways have never had more money thrown at them that we are having to look at importing coaches from thirty(ish) years ago for more capacity