Future disruption on the Cumbria Coast route.

[pnepaul]

As some of you know this has been an ongoing issue recently. The article also says that what is proposed may only be a temporary fix.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c89yl45jpeko

A rail line is to close and its tracks replaced to try and solve a long-running issue with brown and orange harbour water.
Tests have identified iron ochre getting into Queens Dock, at Whitehaven, Cumbria, through a culvert.
The problem has in part been blamed on a "saturated" railway tunnel which takes trains underground between Corkickle and Whitehaven.
Network Rail said it would drain the tunnel and replace its tracks this year and would give a timeline of the works in the coming weeks.
"Schemes like this are costly and subject to strict processes to ensure that we adequately plan for the closure of the line and it is value for money for the taxpayer," a spokesperson said.
It is unclear how long the line will be closed for and if other transport options will be put in place.

 

[Topological]

Having followed the "Brown Haven" discussion since the start on the Chris Moyles show, it is interesting to learn that it was actually linked to the railway. The correlation and not causation explanation was always the new leisure centre that was the same colour and clad about the time the water changed colour. Discussion of Bransty Beck on the show was more recent.

There is an interview with a former representative of Whitehaven about the harbour here: https://www.globalplayer.com/videos/2JsSYxfCqUY/ (Link is to Global with associated adverts etc). Looking for that link made me realise how fast time goes, it was almost 2 years ago in March 2023.

Will be interesting to see what gets said about the railway next week. Usually the railway is just described as an excellent way to get to Whitehaven.

 

[Meerkat]

As some of you know this has been an ongoing issue recently. The article also says that what is proposed may only be a temporary fix.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c89yl45jpeko

on a "saturated" railway tunnel which takes trains underground

as opposed to the tunnels that take trains overground?

 

[Pinus contorta]

So the Leisure Centre is directly above the railway tunnel is it and it is to blame?

When we went to visit the Beacon last year and got off the train at Whitehaven we noticed the birds were struggling with the 'clag' in the harbour. However I connected it to the old iron ore and coal mines nearby and cessation of pumping sometime in the recent past.

I've noticed the sheep are a orangey colour in proximity to the Kelton Fell and Cogra Moss area which was Iron ore qarrried in the past. That's a bit bizarre it is linked to the roof of the Leisure Centre?

 

[PyrahnaRanger]

Leisure centre roof? What absolute rubbish is this people are talking about?

A far more likely candidate would have been the works done to the bank behind the Buzz Station/Wetherspoons as part of the redevelopment works affecting how/where something drains off to. I think James Pit used to be up above that too...

I don't remember Bransty Tunnel being as wet and flooded as it currently is until recently either - can anyone with more knowledge confirm or deny?

 

[Topological]

Presumably these comments about the Leisure Centre link to my posting the discussion from the Chris Moyles show. As I noted in my post that is a case of correlation and not causation.

When it comes to the identification of timing, it can just as easily be the point at which saturation in the railway tunnel hit a critical mass, or the works mentioned by @PyrahnaRanger.

This ability to have fun with correlation is one of the reasons I like to work in statistics, but thankfully we have professionals in geology and chemistry who can support the actual identification of what has happened.

 

[Skiddaw]

I've noticed the sheep are a orangey colour in proximity to the Kelton Fell and Cogra Moss area which was Iron ore qarrried in the past.

Really? I've never noticed that and we quite often walk from Cogra Moss. I shall have to look more closely next time!

 

[Lucy1501]

I don't remember Bransty Tunnel being as wet and flooded as it currently is until recently either - can anyone with more knowledge confirm or deny?

It has certainly been on and off in the past. When it was TCB between Bransty and Corkickle, up until some point in the 90s, there was occasional track circuit failures in the tunnel due to flooding.

 

[PyrahnaRanger]

So the Leisure Centre is directly above the railway tunnel is it and it is to blame?

Errr... No. Anything described as a leisure centre is either Copeland pool, which would flow into Pow Beck as it's on the other side of town to Bransty Beck, and Pow is clean. Well, apart from shopping trolleys and so forth... (Actually, the line runs down Pow Beck Valley, but the beck doesn't go as far as the tunnel - it's already in the harbour by then) or it's the Sports Centre, which is below the height of the tunnel.

When we went to visit the Beacon last year and got off the train at Whitehaven we noticed the birds were struggling with the 'clag' in the harbour. However I connected it to the old iron ore and coal mines nearby and cessation of pumping sometime in the recent past.

The harbour doesn't have a constant flow of water through anymore since the marina gates were built, so it tends to get a bit sludgy.

I've noticed the sheep are a orangey colour in proximity to the Kelton Fell and Cogra Moss area which was Iron ore qarrried in the past. That's a bit bizarre it is linked to the roof of the Leisure Centre?

Really? I've never noticed that and we quite often walk from Cogra Moss. I shall have to look more closely next time!

The sheep round Cogra will quite often have reddish-brown underbellies from the iron ore in the area. Our kids come back covered in it when they've been to my parents house, and our collie used to be a week's worth of dog washing after a trek round @Skiddaw it's more noticeable in winter than summer.

 

[Pinus contorta]

Really? I've never noticed that and we quite often walk from Cogra Moss. I shall have to look more closely next time!

Have a look round the Leaps Beck and Knock Murton area. If there are sheep on the area where the spoil from the drift workings is accumulated then I reckon the sheep will be orangey. It's definitely more obvious when the area is snow bound.

 

[Skiddaw]

Wow!! I shall certainly look more closely next time we're over that way.

I'm reminded of the headline in a Scottish local newspaper we saw once- 'Spean Bridge Orange Sheep Shock'. We've been quoting it ever since.

 

[Gloster]

I read on another forum (I can’t find it now) that the possible cause of the yellow water was drilling that has been going on in connection with housing developments on Harras Moor to the east of the tunnel. As the drilling is presumably recent, that is why it has only now appeared.

 

[PyrahnaRanger]

I think it's unlikely - those houses have only recently been started on, the harbour has been like this a few years already now

 

[unclejoes]

Having followed the "Brown Haven" discussion since the start on the Chris Moyles show, it is interesting to learn that it was actually linked to the railway. The correlation and not causation explanation was always the new leisure centre that was the same colour and clad about the time the water changed colour. Discussion of Bransty Beck on the show was more recent.

There is an interview with a former representative of Whitehaven about the harbour here: https://www.globalplayer.com/videos/2JsSYxfCqUY/ (Link is to Global with associated adverts etc). Looking for that link made me realise how fast time goes, it was almost 2 years ago in March 2023.

Will be interesting to see what gets said about the railway next week. Usually the railway is just described as an excellent way to get to Whitehaven.

I don't like Chris Moyles...... Sorry

 

[Dave S 56F]

I don't like Chris Moyles...... Sorry

Any idea on the days of the commencing of the works on the bransty railway tunnel on the cumbrian Furness line as I'm expecting to be going on a steam dreams railway tour from Workington on a 3 day railtour with day 3 the 12 September as we go from Workington back to London towards Chester on the W.C.M.L. and F.R. obviously as well for commuters and local people this will cause alot of travel replanning whenever N.R. carry out the work on the rails in the tunnel.

 

[StoneRoad]

I've access to a boat in OrangeHaven ... info in caption to this image

whn - brown marina - {W!P} whn - Whitehaven

By StoneRoad2013. The water in the Queen's Dock has turned an unpleasant shade of murky orange / brown. This first happened sometime in late November 2022. The depth of colour varies according to how…

www.ipernity.com

The Bransty Beck first went noticeably "brown" with suspended iron oxide in/around late November 2022.

I've a relevant academic background and have talked extensively to local people ... so I have concluded a few things.
IMO, the pollution is mine water, that flows into Corkickle Tunnel, originally this would have been pumped away. Although which mine is the source is a matter for discussion, as the water could be making it's own routes underground.
It was being filtered by the rail ballast, but not anymore as the ballast is "silted up"
I don't think that any of the recent building developments have much, if anything, to do with it.

A temporary solution will be to relay the track in the tunnel and/or pump the water to some form of filtration such as reed beds.

PS - until the marina went so orange, the sea lock was operated to encourage the water to change by a combination of having the gates kept open or shut at different stages of high and low tides [Freeflow etc]. Now, I think that the EA has them kept shut as much as possible [I'll be there over the w/end and will have a good nebb at what's going on, or not]

 

[PyrahnaRanger]

So with a "relevant academic background": if the last mine closed in 1986, with pumping presumably stopping at the same time, why has it taken nearly 30 years to suddenly turn the water brown?

 

[Pinus contorta]

So with a "relevant academic background": if the last mine closed in 1986, with pumping presumably stopping at the same time, why has it taken nearly 30 years to suddenly turn the water brown?

If.......

I was told by someone a few years back that the Florence Mine was still being pumped until quite recently. I know it isn't in Bransty. However I wouldn't presume anything.

 

[StoneRoad]

So with a "relevant academic background": if the last mine closed in 1986, with pumping presumably stopping at the same time, why has it taken nearly 30 years to suddenly turn the water brown?

It's taken that long to "fill up" / block the ballasts filter capacity is one [partial] explanation, the other is that the polluted water has reached the level underground that only a small amount of rain adds enough water to cause it to flood out, ie the mine workings are full of water.
Normally, you would think that rain would dilute the polluted flow. Well, in recent months, it hasn't. A period of rain seems to increase the amount of muck coming into the harbour.

 

[Gostav]

So with a "relevant academic background": if the last mine closed in 1986, with pumping presumably stopping at the same time, why has it taken nearly 30 years to suddenly turn the water brown?

Mining activities permanently change the underground structure, with closed mines gradually flooded. Over the past 30 years the mine may have filled with water and started to overflow and carrying with iron minerals.

 

[PyrahnaRanger]

If.......

I was told by someone a few years back that the Florence Mine was still being pumped until quite recently. I know it isn't in Bransty. However I wouldn't presume anything.

Florence was pumped after closure, but I think that was mainly to do with it being used for tour groups!

Mining activities permanently change the underground structure, with closed mines gradually flooded. Over the past 30 years the mine may have filled with water and started to overflow and carrying with iron minerals.

I'm well aware of that, many of my family were miners - my paternal Grandfather was the "overman" at Haig* before it shut. It closed in 86, but James Pit (which was above Bransty) closed earlier than that - indeed, by the time I was at school there was no sign of it.

The other point of interest is that those pits were all coal mines - the iron ore deposits in them were scarce to non-existant - anything significant was more inland towards Egremont)Cleator/Kirkland, and the ground there shows it after rain, which is why I'm sceptical about it being filled up mines, but I guess we'll find out eventually!

It's taken that long to "fill up" / block the ballasts filter capacity is one [partial] explanation, the other is that the polluted water has reached the level underground that only a small amount of rain adds enough water to cause it to flood out, ie the mine workings are full of water.
Normally, you would think that rain would dilute the polluted flow. Well, in recent months, it hasn't. A period of rain seems to increase the amount of muck coming into the harbour.

I can see the ballast filter capacity being reached. I'm less sure the pits will have filled - there's miles and miles of them, the whole place is like a rabbit warren! I'm told you could go down one pit, go seven miles out to sea, and come back out on the other side of town when they were all running. That's a Lot of water to fill up, plus they're generally in the wrong place for water to be coming down into the tunnel. Up, yes, down, not so much - as the last I heard, the water was coming in from the top of the tunnel?

*This meant he knew just about everyone in town, and managed a good portion of them, including the drivers of a couple of shunting engines that ran coal from the Haig coal hoppers to Whitehaven station, which secured me a lot of time on the footplate, which for a small boy obsessed with trains was the best thing in the world!

 

[King Lazy]

I was told a similar story. I used to work with a few ex-miners.

One told me “you can go down underground in Whitehaven and come out the other side of
Parton”.

 

[StoneRoad]

Back a few decades - I was underground at Westoe [officially, as a visitor] and the Deputy was explaining escape routes & air flows. He said that if you go down there, pointing at a narrow tunnel, you get to the surface at Harton [IIRC]... and also pointed at several other routes during the trip.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Mar 2025 ==

Just back from the weekend in OrangeHaven ...
No extra gen atm, but a lot of missing boats / empty berths.

Even West Strand was orange !
I would have hoped that the high tides would have allowed a change of water in the marina, but not this time.
The overall mess is not going to improve as the sealock will be shut for annual maintenance form 3rd to 17th March, so no water outflow possible, even if it rains a lot.