Future Civity trains for Northern

[Philip]

With the 196s seemingly highly thought of after their first day in service, the promise of the 197s and the well-discussed issues with the 195s, do you think that any future Civity orders Northern place should be for 196s or 197s (or electric/hybrid/bi-mode equivalent); including an interior design more similar to the existing 196s and 197s, rather than ordering another batch of 195s to the existing Northern interior spec?

 

[skyhigh]

including an interior design more similar to the existing 196s and 197s, rather than ordering another batch of 195s to the existing Northern interior spec?

For someone who knows nothing about 196/197s, what's the difference with the interiors?

 

[Halifaxlad]

I think if you were to buy off the shelf trains then definitely go for 196/197s.

Electric would be nice but I can't see there being enough wires considering any new trains are supposed to be replacing the 15xs. Ideally and since these are supposed to be modular in design according to CAF then I would design them as electric but then fit diesels to them instead so that they could be converted later.

It would also be great if a new class could be designed based upon the 196/197s that also incorporated level boarding although I may be heading into the realms of fantasy.

If 196/197s are ordered I would order them as a mix of 4 and 2 car sets.

 

[Trainbike46]

With the 196s seemingly highly thought of after their first day in service, the promise of the 197s and the well-discussed issues with the 195s, do you think that any future Civity orders Northern place should be for 196s or 197s (or electric/hybrid/bi-mode equivalent); including an interior design more similar to the existing 196s and 197s, rather than ordering another batch of 195s to the existing Northern interior spec?

The most future-proofed option for replacing the 15x classes that are reaching their end of life (and that isn't all of them) would be to go for a diesel-electric bimode that can ideally work in multiple with one or more existing classes of northern train.

A bimode civity that compatible with both the 195 and 331 would be attractive, however I think it's important that the spec isn't written in such a way to limit it to a single manufacturer, as that would probably drive up prices.

Other options, such as flirts for northern, should also be considered.

And, all new train orders, incuding this theoretical one, should require full level boarding similar to the 231/745/755/756

 

[Bletchleyite]

197 with some improvements for me. The 196 looks cramped. Probably suitable for e.g. east Manchester locals, but not Barrow/Windermere.

 

[Halifaxlad]

A bimode civity that compatible with both the 195 and 331 would be attractive, however I think it's important that the spec isn't written in such a way to limit it to a single manufacturer, as that would probably drive up prices.

Considering 195s are designed and built by CAF it would be illogical to go with anyone else especially if you want compatibility with them and 331s.

 

[Trainbike46]

Considering 195s are designed and built by CAF it would be illogical to go with anyone else especially if you want compatibility with them and 331s.

yes, that is clearly true

However, limiting it to CAF in advance would probably make the units more expensive.

Maybe a way would be to include a list of classes that will stay with northern long-term and give credit in the selection process for each class the unit is compatible with. That way the new units would add flexibility without giving too much advantage to any manufacturer

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Oct 2022 ==

I'm guessing the classes northern will retain long term are:
158
170
195
323
331
333