Futher insights on electrification

[cslusarc]

In another thread this comment was made, but my comments did not relate to the original topic so I thought a new thread was warranted.

I agree with you there

I wish we approached electrification from the viewpoint of "how can we eliminate the most DMUs for every mile of electrification" rather than "how can we randomly spread electrification around the country" because the latter ends up with awkward gaps that means you don't get the full benefit.

For example, wiring relatively short distances like Chester - Crewe, Walsall - Rugeley, Ely - Norwich, Uckfield/Marshlink line etc could free up dozens of DMUs to be used elsewhere

As I see it, it's probably easier/better to (1) wire up some lines, buy new EMUs for them and cascade the DMUs elsewhere than it is to (2) buy new DMUs, because it becomes harder and harder to make a business case for new diesel trains, and nervy ROSCOs don't want to take the risk of investing in new trains that might not be needed for the next thirty years. There will always be a market for EMUs though.

The stretches of SWT line through to Exeter (plus some infill around Southampton) would be a priority for me

You've raised some great points. I just think that HM Government seems to be moving slowly on electrification. Now I support their current strategy of electrification of the eastern segment of the GWML and selected lines in the Northwest. The recent Network RUS on Electrification likes to electrify whole lines instead of small segments that could produce bigger benefits if some services operated by Great Western, Midland Mainline, Cross Country and Trans Pennine. Additional cost reductions through greater ulitzation of Electric powered rolling stock could be reached if some Cross Country, East Coast, Great Western, SouthWest, Transpennine and West Coast InterCity service currently operated by Diesel power rolling stock under the wires were split based on electrification.

Question: [I live in Canada.] Are rail passengers in the UK charged a premium to travel on a direct diesel powered that operated under the wires? If not, why aren't they charged a premium for this premium service?

 

[starrymarkb]

In another thread this comment was made, but my comments did not relate to the original topic so I thought a new thread was warranted.



You've raised some great points. I just think that HM Government seems to be moving slowly on electrification. Now I support their current strategy of electrification of the eastern segment of the GWML and selected lines in the Northwest. The recent Network RUS on Electrification likes to electrify whole lines instead of small segments that could produce bigger benefits if some services operated by Great Western, Midland Mainline, Cross Country and Trans Pennine. Additional cost reductions through greater ulitzation of Electric powered rolling stock could be reached if some Cross Country, East Coast, Great Western, SouthWest, Transpennine and West Coast InterCity service currently operated by Diesel power rolling stock under the wires were split based on electrification.

Question: [I live in Canada.] Are rail passengers in the UK charged a premium to travel on a direct diesel powered that operated under the wires? If not, why aren't they charged a premium for this premium service?

The only premium trains in the UK are the Airport Expresses and services on High Speed One

Most walk up flexible fares are the same if you get a direct train or if you change. Direct trains do sometimes have discounted non flexible tickets available that commit you to a specific train at a specific time...

 

[142094]

One point I'd like to make is that wherever the DfT decide to electrify, it must be done to the highest quality and not on a shoestring budget, which as the ECML shows regularly, doing it on the cheap is a false economy for many years into the future.

 

[Bald Rick]

One point I'd like to make is that wherever the DfT decide to electrify, it must be done to the highest quality and not on a shoestring budget, which as the ECML shows regularly, doing it on the cheap is a false economy for many years into the future.

Trouble is, without a 'shoestring' budget the ECML electrification wouldn't have happened in the first place, and we would now be arguing over what would replace HSTs on the ECML. (Oh we still are).

 

[WatcherZero]

I believe thats exactly the way NR looks at electrification from the reports ive read, how many diesel services can it eliminate and does the elimination of that number of services mean a positive BCR? Theres plenty of possible electrification schemes where they have looked at it and said this would only require minimal work but the service frequency is so low it wouldnt be financially benficial anyway. 3/4 of NR's budget is spent on maintenence and renewals not reopening lines, resignalling, speed improvements, etc. They do look for where they can save money with ORR breathing down their backs about having to save 30% in 5 years or something, sadly 60% of NR's total costs are labour and it looks like the place which is most labour intensive and where the greatest savings can be made is cutting back on lineside track inspections and purchasing automated inspection equipment. Now safety is at an all time high with no accident fatalitys in three years and I would hate to see that threatened to get costs back down.

Sorry this reply kinda turned into a mini rant :P

 

[Nym]

So some more sensible parts to electrify would be for example,
Lostock Jcn - Wigan Wallgate (Removes 2tph (4 diagrams IIRC), also provides very good diversionary route and closes a diesel island),
Gospel Oak - Barking,
Victoria - Rochdale (To push electric services from the west through Victoria)
Victoria - Stalybridge (As above)

The next major electrification projects you'd be looking at...

Midland Mainline: Bedford - Leicster - (Derby & Nottingham) - Sheffeild - (Wakfeild & Doncaster)
All Midland Mainline stock would be transfered to either EMU, EDMU or Electric Loco LHCS services (Class 90/91)

If, electrodiesel stock became available by virtue of the electrification of the MML and the 222 fleet being converted to EDMU by Bombardier, this stock to be handed over to TPE North, and the beginings of TP electrification, Guide Bridge - Stalybridge - Huddersfeild - Leeds - York
if the ED stock works out well for this route, keep it as that and start to look at the other routes across the pennines: Rochdale - Todmorden - Bradford - Leeds & Brighouse - Dewsbry / Huddersfeild, naturally moving onto Todmorden - Preston.

Anyone else think I might be a bit biased toward the North here?

 

[duffman82]

Anyone else think I might be a bit biased toward the North here?

I think the North needs some love

 

[Aictos]

I think the North needs some love

How about Ormskirk to Preston to electrified then you could re-introduce direct Liverpool to Preston services?

Or in 2050, electrify Blackpool South to Preston and then onto Skipton via Colne or Leeds via Bradford Interchange?