Further Restrictions Announced by Johnson (22/09)

[birchesgreen]

I suspect the media would have been aiming for civil unrest and riots and hope to bring the Labour government down so they could get their mates back.

 

[Reliablebeam]

Two things come to mind with this: firstly I do think in some ways they have been spared by not winning that election, secondly the nature of who owns our press and their typical agenda, if the subject Labour figures were running the show through this the harassment in the press towards any restrictions would have likely made non-compliance much higher and caused all sorts of other problems.

I have no doubt the likes of BoJo, Gove et al would have been stoking considerable ire and tension and provoking general instability. Witness how the 'tory' press editorial line has turned against Johnson The Clown of late.

It's interesting to wonder how Blair would have dealt with this. My suspicion would be some kind of Sweden type solution with any problems in the NHS blamed on the previous Tory government....

 

[Freightmaster]

...if Labour had won the election in December it would have been Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott guiding us through this mess - and that really doesn't bear thinking about!!

Especially McDonnell, who is as 'hard line' as UK politicians get:

Huffington Post article

John McDonnell has called for a “severe” national lockdown to allow the government
to sort out the deep problems in its NHS Test and Trace service.

“I know it’s unpopular,” the first senior Labour MP to call for a lockdown said.
“Someone put it to me the other day about the economic effects: people will
lose their jobs and the companies being hit, which will have health effects.

“But you can revive the economy over time; you can’t resurrect the dead.”

MARK

 

[yorksrob]

Especially McDonnell, who is as 'hard line' as UK politicians get:

Huffington Post article








MARK

Sounds as though we may have had a lucky escape.

 

[Howardh]

If next week's green/yellow/red system comes into place, and we can't move in or out of a red area, has there ever been a time in British history when you have been unable to move from one large area to another? I know there are emergencies when streets are cordened off, but even during the first lockdown within your hour you could move from one local area to another.

This time I envisage police/army/security blocks and BTP patrolling trains. Otherwise, what's the point of travel restrictions if they're not enforced?

Gonna be very interesting seeing where this goes. As a dig at Brexit, wonder now if their voters realise what losing freedom of movement is, when you can't go to the pub in the next town!

 

[johnnychips]

If next week's green/yellow/red system comes into place, and we can't move in or out of a red area, has there ever been a time in British history when you have been unable to move from one large area to another? I know there are emergencies when streets are cordened off, but even during the first lockdown within your hour you could move from one local area to another.

This time I envisage police/army/security blocks and BTP patrolling trains. Otherwise, what's the point of travel restrictions if they're not enforced?

Gonna be very interesting seeing where this goes. As a dig at Brexit, wonder now if their voters realise what losing freedom of movement is, when you can't go to the pub in the next town!

I am not doubting you, but where is your source that you will not be able to move out of a ‘red’ area? I live in what I think will be red, so does that mean I can’t go to work?

 

[brad465]

Gonna be very interesting seeing where this goes. As a dig at Brexit, wonder now if their voters realise what losing freedom of movement is, when you can't go to the pub in the next town!

As I'm sure you're aware large parts of the Tory party who oppose most of the restrictions on civil liberty grounds are Brexit backers, while the likes of Farage and Laurence Fox are of a similar narrative.

 

[C J Snarzell]

Talk of the red zone reminds me of Airplane! again, just like Boris's rendition of Leslie Neilson when his nose starts to grow longer. All this mess is starting to play out like a badly acted misfit film now, with the UK public as the audience.

CJ

 

[Mag_seven]

If next week's green/yellow/red system comes into place, and we can't move in or out of a red area, has there ever been a time in British history when you have been unable to move from one large area to another? I know there are emergencies when streets are cordened off, but even during the first lockdown within your hour you could move from one local area to another.

This time I envisage police/army/security blocks and BTP patrolling trains. Otherwise, what's the point of travel restrictions if they're not enforced?

I think there is a lot of wild speculation going on here. Lets just wait and see what he says to parliament shall we.

 

[northernchris]

Especially McDonnell, who is as 'hard line' as UK politicians get:

Huffington Post article








MARK

And it's quite telling that there's no mention of what would be done to mitigate the health effects of a harsh lockdown. Obviously we need to prevent as many deaths as possible, but mental health, job losses and homelessness shouldn't be cast aside

If next week's green/yellow/red system comes into place, and we can't move in or out of a red area, has there ever been a time in British history when you have been unable to move from one large area to another? I know there are emergencies when streets are cordened off, but even during the first lockdown within your hour you could move from one local area to another.

This time I envisage police/army/security blocks and BTP patrolling trains. Otherwise, what's the point of travel restrictions if they're not enforced?

I read somewhere that one option being looked at was allowing travel within regions, which makes sense as areas such as West Yorkshire and Greater Manchester have similar infection levels so it's unlikely to contribute towards significant spread of the disease. It also means that people can still travel to shops, otherwise they may as well be closed if they are difficult to access

 

[Bletchleyite]

If next week's green/yellow/red system comes into place, and we can't move in or out of a red area, has there ever been a time in British history when you have been unable to move from one large area to another?

I don't think that is proposed - only Wales and Scotland seem to do that.

What is proposed is I believe that people in Red areas cannot spend overnight away from home, and you cannot stay overnight away from home in a Red area. That is basically the same as applied during the main lockdown and indeed for some time afterwards - I think for most of June?

 

[yorksrob]

And it's quite telling that there's no mention of what would be done to mitigate the health effects of a harsh lockdown. Obviously we need to prevent as many deaths as possible, but mental health, job losses and homelessness shouldn't be cast aside



I read somewhere that one option being looked at was allowing travel within regions, which makes sense as areas such as West Yorkshire and Greater Manchester have similar infection levels so it's unlikely to contribute towards significant spread of the disease. It also means that people can still travel to shops, otherwise they may as well be closed if they are difficult to access

As long as that encompasses the whole of Yorkshire, so that I can still get to the coast.

 

[Richard Scott]

I read somewhere that one option being looked at was allowing travel within regions, which makes sense as areas such as West Yorkshire and Greater Manchester have similar infection levels so it's unlikely to contribute towards significant spread of the disease. It also means that people can still travel to shops, otherwise they may as well be closed if they are difficult to access

Well no as in grand scheme of things infections are still low amongst the population so transmission likely. It's just an politicians seem to have set these low figures, even if 100 in 100,000 then still only 1 in a 1000 have it. At this moment in time the restrictions are pointless, we'll be doing this for a long time at this rate. I know some people are saying hospitals are filling up but that's a vague statement, are they close to capacity would be a better qualifier and expect the answer is no.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

I am not doubting you, but where is your source that you will not be able to move out of a ‘red’ area? I live in what I think will be red, so does that mean I can’t go to work?

Sky News are suggesting that it is being considered for the worst areas.

They also mention that restaurants would be allowed to remain open even in red areas, but pubs not. Don't know how that works for all the pubs which are mainly eating restaurant pubs nowadays.

Link here: https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-boris-johnson-to-make-statement-to-mps-on-monday-12100422

During a meeting on Friday between local leaders and Westminster figures including the Housing Secretary, Robert Jenrick, a number of possibilities were outlined.

Central government is understood to be considering stopping people from travelling in and out of the worst-affected areas.

 

[johnnychips]

Sky News are suggesting that it is being considered for the worst areas.

They also mention that restaurants would be allowed to remain open even in red areas, but pubs not. Don't know how that works for all the pubs which are mainly eating restaurant pubs nowadays.

Link here: https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-boris-johnson-to-make-statement-to-mps-on-monday-12100422

Thank you for your quick reply. I think you mean this bit from your link:

Central government is understood to be considering stopping people from travelling in and out of the worst-affected areas.

If that is so, I won’t be able to get to my work in a college in another local government area. Of course it is still ‘considering’.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

I don't think that is proposed - only Wales and Scotland seem to do that.

What is proposed is I believe that people in Red areas cannot spend overnight away from home, and you cannot stay overnight away from home in a Red area. That is basically the same as applied during the main lockdown and indeed for some time afterwards - I think for most of June?

Which would basically close down all hotels, guest houses, B&Bs etc by default in red areas - will they be legally required to close so they can benefit from grants and furlough money or just left to fend for themselves? Probably the latter "we are not telling you to close" - but we are telling people not to come and stay.

Would support bubbles still be allowed to stay overnight together? If so what happens if one half is outside a red area and one is in? If not, have the effects of loneliness and isolation for prolonged periods on single people been considered? What about non-cohabiting couples?

 

[Richard Scott]

Thank you for your quick reply. I think you mean this bit from your link:

Central government is understood to be considering stopping people from travelling in and out of the worst-affected areas.

If that is so, I won’t be able to get to my work in a college in another local government area. Of course it is still considering’.

Well that'll end up with some school closures then as staff won't be able to get in. Thought they were supposed to be avoiding that? When will they realise all these actions are just futile and they're just urinating on a bonfire?

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Well that'll end up with some school closures then as staff won't be able to get in. Thought they were supposed to be avoiding that? When will they realise all these actions are just futile and they're just urinating on a bonfire?

Of course even if they did do it, how would they enforce it? Far too many roads crossing borders to even think about it. You might manage the odd road here and there, but every country lane, moorland road, A road, B road or motorway in and out of an area? Impossible.

Incidentally the work related issue would also apply to me. I work somewhere that would 100% be in a red zone, but live somewhere which may, just perhaps, only be a yellow zone.

 

[northernchris]

I know some people are saying hospitals are filling up but that's a vague statement, are they close to capacity would be a better qualifier and expect the answer is no.

Some hospitals in the north east and north west are reportedly expected to be at capacity within days

When the number of coronavirus hospital admissions becomes a cause for concern

The number of Covid-19 patients in hospital in the UK has increased by 1,000 in the last week

inews.co.uk

According to reports, one hospital in the North East is days away from being at 100 per cent capacity, and those in parts of the North West, such as Liverpool, are following fast.

 

[Howardh]

Thank you for your quick reply. I think you mean this bit from your link:

Central government is understood to be considering stopping people from travelling in and out of the worst-affected areas.

If that is so, I won’t be able to get to my work in a college in another local government area. Of course it is still ‘considering’.

You would have to convince them that you are a "key worker" again, what if you can't?

Also, has anyone considered rail staff will be travelling between zones as a necessity due to their work? I take it trains are key workers, so no issues there, but if a driver and guard travel into a red area, will they be able to leave the train at arrival?

 

[Crossover]

Thank you for your quick reply. I think you mean this bit from your link:

Central government is understood to be considering stopping people from travelling in and out of the worst-affected areas.

If that is so, I won’t be able to get to my work in a college in another local government area. Of course it is still ‘considering’.

I would have thought that workers would be allowed to cross the boundary (after all in lockdown it was permissible - indeed I did numerous times)

 

[Richard Scott]

Some hospitals in the north east and north west are reportedly expected to be at capacity within days

When the number of coronavirus hospital admissions becomes a cause for concern

The number of Covid-19 patients in hospital in the UK has increased by 1,000 in the last week

inews.co.uk

It says there are 3412 patients in hospital due to virus, how many hospital beds are there in UK. Don't think 3412 is even close to capacity. They said it's a rise of 1000 in a week, how many can the Nightingale hospitals take? Sounds like story is sensationalising and reality is somewhat different?

 

[northernchris]

It says there are 3412 patients in hospital due to virus, how many hospital beds are there in UK. Don't think 3412 is even close to capacity. They said it's a rise of 1000 in a week, how many can the Nightingale hospitals take? Sounds like story is sensationalising and reality is somewhat different?

Yes, I don't think Nightingales have been included in the total number of beds as at one point there were more than 20,000 in hospital across the UK. It is likely though that some hospitals will be close to capacity in high infection areas as the 3412 won't be evenly spread across the country

 

[Howardh]

I see there's been quite a fall in case numbers given today, and it's not even the natural reporting weekend slump, so hopefully numbers will fall into next week and they will have a re-think. If bars were the problem, with all the bad weather and everyone being inside, the numbers should continue to rise?

In reality, if there is a continued fall in infections, it could be that the kids and students have infected all those that they could infect, the majority of the infections mild and are beginning to recover, the herd immunity kicking in?

The number of infections in Spain is reducing significantly too; same thing?

 

[johntea]

I'm involved in a northern Nightingale hospital, put it this way it won't be opening up next week as we haven't been given notification to prepare to wake it up from standby yet (as it would obviously need a week or so to bring it back up to speed, checking equipment etc)

Plenty of capacity...but then you have to find the staffing!

 

[Howardh]

It says there are 3412 patients in hospital due to virus, how many hospital beds are there in UK. Don't think 3412 is even close to capacity. They said it's a rise of 1000 in a week, how many can the Nightingale hospitals take? Sounds like story is sensationalising and reality is somewhat different?

How many are in intensive care currently (ICU)?

 

[Richard Scott]

How many are in intensive care currently (ICU)?

Article says 442.

 

[Cowley]

Article says 442.

Please don’t bring 442s into this section. We’ve got enough problems...

 

[brad465]

I'm involved in a northern Nightingale hospital, put it this way it won't be opening up next week as we haven't been given notification to prepare to wake it up from standby yet (as it would obviously need a week or so to bring it back up to speed, checking equipment etc)

Plenty of capacity...but then you have to find the staffing!

I know there's a bad enough shortage of nurses as it is, but if they needed to bring that hospital online but don't have the staff, could they bring some in on relief work from less hit areas? While it's not the same type of work, I work in an organisation that is a category 1 incident responder and we have a process known as "mutual aid", which is essentially where if an incident needs high numbers of staff and/or drags on so long that more staff are needed to accommodate rest for others, we can send staff (and equipment) from other parts of the country.

Please don’t bring 442s into this section. We’ve got enough problems...

 

[Yew]

Please don’t bring 442s into this section. We’ve got enough problems...

We could convert them to hospital trains, to go to areas that are at-risk (as long as there is third rail coverage). Though the old sleepers would probably be more useful.


It does seem like measures are premature, and more about Borises desire to 'beat' the virus, than stopping the NHS being overwhelmed.