Funeral arrangements discussion

[AM9]

mods note - split from this thread.

Annoying television adverts...

Are there any television adverts out there, which you find to be particularly annoying when watching live TV... Some possible examples... Purple Bricks (Online estate agents) Seem to like to make out that they are something different. Only thing that they seem to do differently is charge a fee...

www.railforums.co.uk

I agree with that having attended a cremation and celebration yesterday (Friday 25th.). There was no call for black ties etc., with all the sniffy looks at those who didn't/couldn't comply.*
I have always found Wales to be bothered interesting and generally enjoyable, (as this one was) and those closest to the deceased have had their spirits lifted by the experience.

* For those interested, listen to Stanley Holloway's monologue 'Brahn Boots' for a view on funeral orthodoxies over 90 years ago. It's available to listen to on Spotify.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I don't know if anything has been said to Pure Cremations, but the last advert I saw had in its small print footnote that relatives do not attend nor is there a service.

 

[Brightonboy]

I agree with that having attended a cremation and celebration yesterday (Friday 25th.). There was no call for black ties etc., with all the sniffy looks at those who didn't/couldn't comply.*
I have always found Wales to be bothered interesting and generally enjoyable, (as this one was) and those closest to the deceased have had their spirits lifted by the experience.

* For those interested, listen to Stanley Holloway's monologue 'Brahn Boots' for a view on funeral orthodoxies over 90 years ago. It's available to listen to on Spotify.

The late, great, comic and music hall aficionado Roy Hudd also recorded 'Brahn Boots'

 

[GusB]

I don't know if anything has been said to Pure Cremations, but the last advert I saw had in its small print footnote that relatives do not attend nor is there a service.

It has been brought up several times in the thread.

While relatives and friends do not attend the actual cremation and there is no service included in the price, there is nothing to prevent a memorial service or some other gathering taking place at a separate venue.

Time slots at crematoria are only around 15-20 minutes and they're very strict, so there can only be a very brief service.there anyway. In some parts of the country they're often quite distant; a 40 mile round trip in my parents' case.

Funerals are an expensive business and not everyone can afford a full bells-and-whistles, gold-plated affair, especially when the death of a loved one is sudden. Having a separate no-frills cremation means that families can spend more on the gathering. It's not disrespectful if that's what the deceased wanted in the first place.

I certainly won't be wanting a formal affair when my time comes and, if I'm being honest, spending a four-figure sum on a posh wooden box that's going to be reduced to ashes is rather wasteful. I'd rather the money was used for a good feed and a free bar at my local.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It has been brought up several times in the thread.

While relatives and friends do not attend the actual cremation and there is no service included in the price, there is nothing to prevent a memorial service or some other gathering taking place at a separate venue.

Time slots at crematoria are only around 15-20 minutes and they're very strict, so there can only be a very brief service.there anyway. In some parts of the country they're often quite distant; a 40 mile round trip in my parents' case.

Funerals are an expensive business and not everyone can afford a full bells-and-whistles, gold-plated affair, especially when the death of a loved one is sudden. Having a separate no-frills cremation means that families can spend more on the gathering. It's not disrespectful if that's what the deceased wanted in the first place.

I certainly won't be wanting a formal affair when my time comes and, if I'm being honest, spending a four-figure sum on a posh wooden box that's going to be reduced to ashes is rather wasteful. I'd rather the money was used for a good feed and a free bar at my local.

What about discussing the church services that are held for funerals where the deceased had a family grave. Our church was packed when my late wife Patricia's funeral was celebrated in 2021, with not just relatives and the local neighbours, but people she had worked with over the years, people who had been in her social circle and the societies that she held membership. Some people had travelled considerable distances to attend

 

[GusB]

What about discussing the church services that are held for funerals where the deceased had a family grave. Our church was packed when my late wife Patricia's funeral was celebrated in 2021, with not just relatives and the local neighbours, but people she had worked with over the years, people who had been in her social circle and the societies that she held membership. Some people had travelled considerable distances to attend

Some of us are godless heathens who do not wish to have a church service. It's all down to personal preference at the end of the day.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Could someone explain how a company like Pure Cremations collect and return your late loved ones? I assume it is more dignified than waiting for Evri to deliver the urn.

 

[RailwayRookie]

Some of us are godless heathens who do not wish to have a church service. It's all down to personal preference at the end of the day.

My house backs on to a church yard, not everyone's cup of tea in itself.

I have told the other half im more than happy saving the pennies and just dumping me over the fence when im done.

 

[AM9]

My house backs on to a church yard, not everyone's cup of tea in itself.

I have told the other half im more than happy saving the pennies and just dumping me over the fence when im done.

Woth me it depends on whether it's a green or brown bin week.

 

[Brightonboy]

Could someone explain how a company like Pure Cremations collect and return your late loved ones? I assume it is more dignified than waiting for Evri to deliver the urn.

I suspect it's similar to that used for donations to medical science (as my Father In Law was). As soon as he had passed (brain tumour and at home) late morning and the police and medical formalities completed by early afternoon a private ambulance arrived and took him away (as an undertaker would) and that was it. There was no opportunity for any member of the family to go to an undertaker for a viewing and the family had no further news of him until we received a letter confirming that they had finished with him and he had been cremated. In the meantime, we had held a memorial service in the local church with a large picture taking the place of the coffin. An urn of ashes was subsequently delivered to MiL (although I don't recall how that was done) and we held a second, family-only, gathering to scatter the ashes on the family grave.
Whilst that was pretty much his wishes (he didn't want to be returned to the family) it did feel as if there was a part of the grieving process missing and I am not sure I would like to go through that again.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Does anyone know if the Muslim and Jewish faiths have regulations regarding funeral services. I do know that there are Jewish cemeteries in my local area.

 

[oldman]

I don't know if this is representative, but my two most recent family funerals (brother-in-law and his brother) both took place about four weeks after the death, which struck me as a long wait. Both my parents' funerals, many years ago, were within a week and that seemed to be a normal thing at the time.

 

[Highview]

At my local crematoria they post a daily notice listing the names of those being cremated - the unattended direct cremations are allocated 5 minute slots from 9 am, followed by the attended cremations (with service) which last into the afternoon. The number of direct cremations are now starting to match the attended ones in a single day which is showing the trend in this direction, only a few years ago it was almost all attended ones.

 

[adc82140]

I'm noticing these days, that more people are opting for close family cremations, with a memorial thanksgiving service coming a while later, when things are a little less raw. It also means more people are able to attend, as it gives increased notice to get time off work etc.

 

[THC]

I don't know if this is representative, but my two most recent family funerals (brother-in-law and his brother) both took place about four weeks after the death, which struck me as a long wait. Both my parents' funerals, many years ago, were within a week and that seemed to be a normal thing at the time.

The typical lag time in the UK between death and the resultant funeral appears to have grown longer over the years. All my family are from the rural west of Ireland where, even now, funerals tend to take place at most within a few days of death. There are lots of other ritual differences - open casket at the house, the family carrying the coffin, the whole community in attendance - but the timing one sticks out for me.

THC

 

[eyebrook1961]

Could someone explain how a company like Pure Cremations collect and return your late loved ones? I assume it is more dignified than waiting for Evri to deliver the urn.

I'd hate to come home to a card saying "over the back gate". . . .

 

[3141]

Some of us are godless heathens who do not wish to have a church service. It's all down to personal preference at the end of the day.

There's an increasing tendency for the ceremony at a crematorium to be conducted by a "celebrant". Whether or not any religious references are included is a matter for the family making the arrangements. I went to a cremation recently where the Lord's Prayer was said at the end, being the only reference to Christianity that occurred.

 

[D6130]

Does anyone know if the Muslim and Jewish faiths have regulations regarding funeral services. I do know that there are Jewish cemeteries in my local area.

Can't speak for the Jewish faith, but my wife worked for several years with quite a few Muslims and - if I remember correctly - Islam requires bodies to be buried within 48 hours of death. Happy to be corrected though.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I don't know if this is representative, but my two most recent family funerals (brother-in-law and his brother) both took place about four weeks after the death, which struck me as a long wait. Both my parents' funerals, many years ago, were within a week and that seemed to be a normal thing at the time.

In my mother's case we had about a six week wait. Waits do seem to have got longer following the virus thing a few years ago.


As choice has come up a few times, for myself I'd prefer a traditional burial - it seems to me it's more environment friendly than using two hours worth of gas... and by definition, a cemetery is likely to remain a semi-wild green area for many years. Concerns about embalming fluid seeping into the ground can be mitigated with hermetic sealing. ( Yes, I know hermetic sealing costs a lot more!! )

 

[D6130]

In my mother's case we had about a six week wait. Waits do seem to have got longer following the virus thing a few years ago.


As choice has come up a few times, for myself I'd prefer a traditional burial - it seems to me it's more environment friendly than using two hours worth of gas... and by definition, a cemetery is likely to remain a semi-wild green area for many years. Concerns about embalming fluid seeping into the ground can be mitigated with hermetic sealing. ( Yes, I know hermetic sealing costs a lot more!! )

A woodland burial in a cardboard coffin is considerably more environmentally friendly....and cheaper too.

 

[norbitonflyer]

The typical lag time in the UK between death and the resultant funeral appears to have grown longer over the years. All my family are from the rural west of Ireland where, even now, funerals tend to take place at most within a few days of death. There are lots of other ritual differences - open casket at the house, the family carrying the coffin, the whole community in attendance - but the timing one sticks out for me.

THC

My father's and mother-in-law's funerals were both over a month after their deaths, because of the need to book a suitable time at the church/crematorium respectively, and in one case because the death was sudden so an inquest had to be held. Sometimes they are delayed so that family have time to get there from abroad.

I have been booked to sing at a funeral (no-one I know, but the family wanted a choir) in five weeks' time.

Soem faiths do require burial within a short time limit - I recall there was some comment on the speed with which Robert Maxwell was buried, according to Jewish tradition, given the circumstances - no post mortem seems to have been conducted despite the questions raised about how he ended up in the sea.
For some people, a simple funeral is followed by a memorial service at a later date.

 

[cb a1]

I do not have a religion and personally do not ascribe any sentimental value to my corporeal form or those of my ancestors. This belief and these values naturally influence the choices I wish to be followed upon my death. That said, as I'll be dead, if it doesn't happen then, meh.
I have opted for donating my body to science. In Scotland (don't know about E&W) they may use my body (or parts of it) for up to 3 years before the bits are cremated (although I probably ticked the box for them to keep some bits for longer if they want to)
I am thinking of writing a Continuing and Welfare Power of Attorney (Scottish equiv of Lasting Power of Attorney as used in E&W) and will need to give some thought to what I would like done with the ashes and what sort of memorial service.
Interestingly, I am fascinated by palaeontology and archaeology ... if there was a way that I could be certain that my body would be fossilised ...

 

[35B]

Could someone explain how a company like Pure Cremations collect and return your late loved ones? I assume it is more dignified than waiting for Evri to deliver the urn.

From what I’ve heard from clergy who’ve had to pick up the pieces for those left behind, not necessarily. The summary is that they’ve been careless of the grieving relatives when collecting the deceased, and with little interest in serving them well when returning the ashes.

They’re finding an increasing number of families asking for memorial services, as families find themselves needing to replace the farewell element of a traditional funeral before they can move on in their lives.

I have religious beliefs but my experience of funerals is that they are about the deceased but for the living. My instructions will therefore not be precise but just enough to set parameters that my family can use to help them plan.

 

[JohnofWessex]

Woth me it depends on whether it's a green or brown bin week.

My wife is worried that I will do what our chickens used to do which is die the day after bin day in the middle of a heatwave.

Plan B is put my railway books on the patio, soak in Diesel and stick me on top

I am not sure if I will be dead at that point or not.............

 

[johntea]

My Dad had his wishes to be cremated and not make a fuss over everything...we got told when the cremation and scattering of ashes would be done by them in the 'memorial garden' and that was that basically

I suspect my Mum will be the complete opposite as she has always been the more 'social circle' type

Personally I haven't decided yet although I suspect when it comes to my turn there would be more work colleagues and friends if I decided on a funeral than family as I don't have children and just the one sister! (and yes I have had the experience of attending the funeral of 2 work colleagues in my previous job - our boss suddenly died one weekend whilst playing in his pub band which was rather surreal going from him saying 'have a good weekend see you on Monday' to next seeing him being laid to rest and my line manager retired to spend time with his wife only for her to pass away less than a year later)

The 2 most recent deaths have been my Uncles who both ended up riddled with cancer which you read and hear about but then see it in person happening to them and how fast it takes over their body is crazy...also makes you realize a lot of people certainly don't make it to 100 then just die peacefully in their sleep

 

[Falcon1200]

I don't know if this is representative, but my two most recent family funerals (brother-in-law and his brother) both took place about four weeks after the death, which struck me as a long wait.

My Mum's funeral (Church of England) and cremation were four weeks and one day after her death. She had donated her brain for dementia research although I don't think this delayed things. The interval suited us, giving plenty of time to arrange things, including one grandchild coming over from California.

 

[Magdalia]

A woodland burial in a cardboard coffin is considerably more environmentally friendly....and cheaper too.

My parents are interred in a woodland burial ground, but in wicker caskets.

Woodland burial grounds do not allow headstones or other permanent grave markers, though wooden plaques are allowed. One practical advantage is that there is no maintenance required. I visit occasionally, but that's because I want to go, not because some chore needs to be done.

For those wanting a woodland burial ground near a railway, there is one next to the Epping and Ongar Railway.

The typical lag time in the UK between death and the resultant funeral appears to have grown longer over the years.

For both the time lag was about 2 weeks. Not having the constraint of needing a time at the crematorium helped to do the funeral more quickly.

There's an increasing tendency for the ceremony at a crematorium to be conducted by a "celebrant". Whether or not any religious references are included is a matter for the family making the arrangements. I went to a cremation recently where the Lord's Prayer was said at the end, being the only reference to Christianity that occurred.

The funerals were conducted at the burial ground by a Church of England vicar. I have a friend who conducts non-religious funerals, though they are usually at crematoria. They usually get referrals through funeral directors.

I have opted for donating my body to science.

A word of caution here. Supply is much bigger than demand, so "science" is able to pick and choose which bodies to accept. I know of an instance, that was very distressing for the people grieving a loss, when "science" declined the donation. The deceased also left instructions that there should be no funeral, but I don't like this. Funerals are for those still living, not those that have died.

 

[D6130]

Woodland burial grounds do not allow headstones or other permanent grave markers, though wooden plaques are allowed

My mother's ashes are interred at a woodland burial ground in Gloucestershire and they allow small stone markers with the deceased's name and birth and death dates inscribed on them.

 

[cb a1]

A word of caution here. Supply is much bigger than demand, so "science" is able to pick and choose which bodies to accept. I know of an instance, that was very distressing for the people grieving a loss, when "science" declined the donation. The deceased also left instructions that there should be no funeral, but I don't like this. Funerals are for those still living, not those that have died.

Thanks for the word of caution. I've not heard of that happening here (yet), but a wee bit of searching does show that more and more people are considering this (if for no other reason but to save money on funeral costs) and thus is a very plausible scenario.
Hence, I do take cognisance and shall now make a plan B!

 

[Ashley Hill]

Could someone explain how a company like Pure Cremations collect and return your late loved ones? I assume it is more dignified than waiting for Evri to deliver the urn.

I looked at the Pure Cremations website and found the following answers.
•They will collect the deceased from the home, hospice or hospital by private ambulance.
•They will be taken to one of their three crematoriums. You will be informed when the cremation will take place.
•The ashes will be hand delivered in an urn to your address.

Presumably one of their agents will do the delivery.
It all seems straightforward but lacks (for me) the grieving process.