Funding agreed for UK's biggest tram network

[Ivo]

Found this:

http://www.metromapsoftheworld.com/PipeDreams/Metrotube/Manchester-Metrolink-Phase.gif

Projected Metrolink system for 2030. Not gonna post the picture on here because it's huge!

There's something a bit odd with this map Mosley Street closes soon, yet is open in 2030?!

Regarding the colours, I'd like to see them keep the colour scheme going. The green can become "District", and the yellow can become... oh hold on.

 

[WatcherZero]

Do neither the Birkenhead Tramway nor the National Tramway Museum at Crich count as preserved tramways?

Crich is an old mine line converted into a fake tram centred village with buildings also moved in to the valley. Birkenhead was built in April 1995. Heaton is original tramline track unburied and reinstated to service.

 

[PR1Berske]

Yes tram-train proposals for Marple/Rose hill combined with the Atherton line with a town centre connection between the two similar to Bury/Altrincham (Northern hub proposal with additional trains travelling along the marple line may preclude that however) and for Hadfield/Glossop a tram train that would travel the normal rail routes to just before piccadilly where it would leave the line somewhere between ashbury and ardwick and possibly enter Piccadilly undercroft at street level (avoiding the busy station approach), BR residual just had to alter land disposals because the allignment for that routes still protected.

Also its been floated for a full Metrolink conversion of the Atherton line with a new Manchester city streets crossing to Salford Crescent where it would join the line. Salford wants another Metrolink line possibly North-South connecting the quays in the south with the heavy rail in the north of the borough. tram-trains on the Bolton line has been floated, and residents of Leigh would like to see the guided bus scheme under construction there due top open spring 2013 upgraded to tram rather than bus, though that would present some difficultys of how it traversed from the end of the guideway on the East Lancs through Salford. Trafford Council have floated a minor alteration of the planned trafford line which would connect to Manchester City Airport in addition to the Trafford Centre.

Overall lots of ideas floated, several of which have been financially assesed with positive BCR in various DFT/Network rail/Local Strategic Plans during the last decade. Will be interested to see what is promoted after 2016 when Phase 3B is complete, probably wont be any money available for further extensions until 2018 however.

NOT A GUIDED BUS SCHEME?!! [pantomime horror]




How goes the scheme to reposition Salford Crescent further along/back/sideways ? Is it ever going to happen?

 

[yorksrob]

Also its been floated for a full Metrolink conversion of the Atherton line with a new Manchester city streets crossing to Salford Crescent where it would join the line. Salford wants another Metrolink line possibly North-South connecting the quays in the south with the heavy rail in the north of the borough.

There goes my nice quick connection at Victoria then

 

[WatcherZero]

Interestingly first draft of GM Local Transport Plan 3 which covers next 5 years in detail and planning for 10 years is about to go consultation. Ive seen the draft and Tram Conversion of Atherton isnt in it. Two new lines proposed the Trafford and Stockport extension as well as tram trains running on Altrincham-Stockport and Marple lines.

What it is proposing this side of the city is making the Kirkby-Manchester train a shuttle only between Kirby and Wallgate since very few Kirkby passengers travel beyond Wigan, all the Southport services would run via Bolton (since with higher TPH on this line it can accomadate the long distance travellers whereas Atherton suffers from trains arriving already full) all the Atherton line services would just run Wigan-Manchester since they cant get another TPH on the Atherton line without resignalling the headway thats considered the best way of addressing overcrowding. Their also still planning a 2tph Wigan-Manchester non-stop via Chat Moss. Its not stated but I imagine this could be branded as a MetroExpress like service.

http://www.gmita.gov.uk/downloads/file/3152/item_6_draft_ltp_3_consultation_proposals
http://www.gmita.gov.uk/downloads/file/3162/item_06_northern_hub_update

 

[Aussie_Rail]

When the project is complete, how many km's of double track will the network have?

 

[WatcherZero]

As under construction and excluding envisaged but unplanned/funded Trafford and Stockport Town Centre extension about 97km total by 2016 of which 3km will be single track (Media City Spur, Timperley stretch shared with National Rail, Newton Heath Waste facility stretch, Rochdale station ramp to viaduct and Eccles Station), will be a short (0.3km or so) stretch of 3 track.

About 100 trams and around 95 stations.

If your comparing it to Melbourne its more Metro like than bus like with 800m minimum between stops (135m average in Melbourne), off street 50mph running, only about a 3rd will be street running with mixed traffic.

 

[Aussie_Rail]

As under construction and excluding envisaged but unplanned/funded Trafford and Stockport Town Centre extension about 97km total by 2016 of which 3km will be single track (Media City Spur, Timperley stretch shared with National Rail, Newton Heath Waste facility stretch, Rochdale station ramp to viaduct and Eccles Station), will be a short (0.3km or so) stretch of 3 track.

About 100 trams and around 95 stations.

If your comparing it to Melbourne its more Metro like than bus like with 800m minimum between stops (135m average in Melbourne), off street 50mph running, only about a 3rd will be street running with mixed traffic.

Yeah, I was comparing the two, so that's interesting that they are spending a lot of money doing a tram project yet the spacing between stops is so great.

Wouldn't it be more attractive to people if stops were closer, and not nesessarily designed to be like stations? Because if a tram network had stops that were close together, easy access and the tram for most of the part ran on its own reservation it would be more used than if the stops were far apart and the stops were designed more like stations?

 

[PR1Berske]

Yeah, I was comparing the two, so that's interesting that they are spending a lot of money doing a tram project yet the spacing between stops is so great.

Wouldn't it be more attractive to people if stops were closer, and not nesessarily designed to be like stations? Because if a tram network had stops that were close together, easy access and the tram for most of the part ran on its own reservation it would be more used than if the stops were far apart and the stops were designed more like stations?

It would be hard to justify having hunking great trams stop-start-stop-start along stretches of Britain's smaller, narrower roads.

 

[WatcherZero]

In the city centre theirs half a dozen stops that people hop on-hop off, but its more of a hybrid commuter system for rapid transit across the city. The average passenger journey length is 10km vs 3km in Melbourne. They tried having stops 600m apart on the Eccles line but found that made it less competitive with direct bus routes so 800m was decided on as optimum speed vs coverage.

 

[sprinterguy]

As WatcherZero quite rightly says, the Manchester Metrolink acts principally as a cross-city rapid transit system, that has the advantage of both regenerating former heavy rail routes by providing a more frequent service with a better public image, combined with faster start-stop times between stations, and being able to run on-street to serve major local population centres and connect the outer areas directly with the town centres which is where people want to go.

Light rail and heavy rail systems both require reasonably high levels of population around the route in order to make them feasible, so it makes sense to arrange the stops around well spaced "nodes" (the traditional style stations) serving a higher catchment area in one go than a number of small individual tram stops, where the catchment area for each would be too low to show any benefits of the slower journey time incurred by stopping at them all.

For reference, here in the West Midlands, the various public transport modes are assumed to have catchment area sizes of 200 metres for local bus, 400 metres for light rail, and 800 metres for heavy rail, as regards demand modelling for the various systems.

 

[WatcherZero]

Media City stop opened today, no fanfare in advance however, seems they went for a soft launch in case of problems.

 

[Mojo]

As WatcherZero quite rightly says, the Manchester Metrolink acts principally as a cross-city rapid transit system, that has the advantage of both regenerating former heavy rail routes by providing a more frequent service with a better public image, combined with faster start-stop times between stations, and being able to run on-street to serve major local population centres and connect the outer areas directly with the town centres which is where people want to go.

And of course it would hack people off already wound up about the slower journey times compared to the previous heavy rail service, by adding more stops.