Fun & games on the GE (8 October 2013)

[Class_317]

Ta, understood! I knew roughly what the layout was at Witham, but didn't know the lengths involved (and these trains seem to get longer by the day!).

The end? Don't see why the toys need to come out of the pram - pretty interesting discussion so far. On what basis do you reckon that regulating decisions are based on how much each operator is paying, and are you referring specifically to major disruption such as this? I make regulating decisions every day at work, and I neither know nor care how much the TOCs and FOCs involved are paying to run their trains.

Dummy... pram... pot. Kettle. Black?
Who takes blame is directly attributable to who makes the decisions.

Well that's told us

Indeed... If only it was that simple. It would have been foolish of me to think that making such facts known in an open forum would actually tell anyone anything at all lol

So, the freight is late arriving at the terminal....
There are people waiting to unload the containers to take to customers (companies).
Those companies are then having their staff standing around having nothing to do, but no doubt still being paid, and then when it does turn up, there is no-one to unload.

Similarly, if a liner train arrives late at the port, then the ship may have left already.

Having worked in the freight sector, the customer can be just as demanding as a TOC passenger.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


As far as the customer is concerned, it is a rail industry problem.....
They don't give a damm about whose fault it is within the industry.

Attribution of blame can only occur when the government stops hiding behind Network Fail. calling funding a subsidy doesn't mean the politicians hands are clean.
. And if you seriously think that talking about one incident from the aggrieved customer's point of view amounts to my thing you are sadly mistaken. Until people start to lay blame at the correct people we can talk about this stuff till we are blur in the face. nothing will get done.

It would be helpful to see the factual sources behind those two statements.

As I am an industry insider those facts are widely available. Send a freedom of information request to network rail about the impending sale of the Liverpool street signal box to developers and you will be surprised at the response.

 

[Clip]

Drivers' hours are an issue across the board.

This is very true but out of the TOC and the FOC who do you think would find it easier to source spare drivers should hours become a problem?

As I am an industry insider those facts are widely available. Send a freedom of information request to network rail about the impending sale of the Liverpool street signal box to developers and you will be surprised at the response.

You do come across as very angry in oyur replies, I must say.

Also what difference does it make if the box is at Liv St or Romford? Serious question.

 

[Tomnick]

Dummy... pram... pot. Kettle. Black?
Who takes blame is directly attributable to who makes the decisions.

As I am an industry insider those facts are widely available. Send a freedom of information request to network rail about the impending sale of the Liverpool street signal box to developers and you will be surprised at the response.

No duck, I'm not the pot calling the kettle black - the rest of us were having a mature discussion until you stormed in and accused us all of being small men!

May I ask in what way you're an industry insider? Your posts so far suggest a leaning towards the driving grade, to whom facts around track access payments and agreements (across all TOCs and FOCs) are no more readily available than they are to me as a signalman. That's the part of your post that I'd like to see substantiated - the suggestion that Network Rail regulate on the basis of who pays most. I don't think that anyone is suggesting that the original failure is attributed to anyone other than Network Rail, but that's not what the discussion's about.

As for moving to Romford, it's been widely publicised that Romford will be the location of the new route operating centre (or whatever ROC stands for), which all the signalling on the Anglia region will ultimately move into. I doubt the bouncy castle (Liverpool St box!) would be big enough anyway. As Clip asks though, what difference would that have made?

 

[O L Leigh]

As I am an industry insider those facts are widely available.

That doesn't mean that either a) you are talking any sense, or b) that we should give any more credence to what you say compared to anyone else.

So far your point seems to be not even tangentially related to the discussion at hand. You don't have to be an industry insider to understand that the delay attribution system currently in use is flawed. But how does that relate to the problems on the GE yesterday morning? Likewise, so what if the "Bouncy Castle" is going to be closed, the signalling centre moved to Romford and the site sold for redevelopment? As an industry insider, I would imagine that telling you that property sale and management represents a large revenue stream for Nitwit Rail is so page one line one.

As has been said, we were all having a nice discussion until you came blundering in and acting all Billy Big B*llocks. If you want to start a discussion about the political governance of the railway, it's funding and lines of responsibility then please do start your own thread.

O L Leigh

 

[Bald Rick]

As I am an industry insider those facts are widely available. Send a freedom of information request to network rail about the impending sale of the Liverpool street signal box to developers and you will be surprised at the response.

Fortunately many people on this forum work in the industry. Some even have (or have had) responsibility for things like regulation policies (in my case on the GEML) and the management of signalling centres (in my case Liverpool St IECC amongst many others).

Thus some of us know the true state of affairs, rather than making it up, spouting boll*cks, and portraying a rather negative view of today's railway.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Fortunately many people on this forum work in the industry. Some even have (or have had) responsibility for things like regulation policies (in my case on the GEML) and the management of signalling centres (in my case Liverpool St IECC amongst many others).

Thus some of us know the true state of affairs, rather than making it up, spouting boll*cks, and portraying a rather negative view of today's railway.

Amen to that - ! (there are those who "do - or have done" , and those who comment from a non doing background)

Less of a victim and almost paranoid "out to get everyone culture" might be helpfull , as opposed to factual and pragmatic views on , focusing on how do we get people and freight moving , as opposed to "someone cocked up and ....blah , blah"

 

[YorkshireBear]

I would also like to point out that just like passengers some freight is also time sensitive so why should it have to wait?

 

[LBSCR Times]

As I am an industry insider those facts are widely available.

Understanding them is another matter......

 

[YorkshireBear]

Understanding them is another matter......

I kind of want to say 'Oh no you didn't!' In those really weird accents you here on gangsta programs.

 

[Sleepy]

Interesting to note how quick East Anglian MP' s were quick to appear on local tv on this occasion ?? Including ex rail minister Simon Burns !

 

[Class_317]

Sounds like many people on here don't respect people's personal views.

The only bo**ocks being spouted is being done by those carrying a "mightier than thou" complex.

I apologize for stepping on your royal feet. Sorry for intruding in your fantasy railway discussion.

And why does it matter if the signal box is relocated?
One word: Crossrail... Surely the Romford signal bx should have been an addition not a replacement.

And no I am not a Driver. It goes without saying that if you apply for a driver job you are automatically assumed to be in the "driving grade" maybe I should apply for CEO of Greater Anglia since Ruud is leaving? lol

Amen to that - ! (there are those who "do - or have done" , and those who comment from a non doing background)

Less of a victim and almost paranoid "out to get everyone culture" might be helpfull , as opposed to factual and pragmatic views on , focusing on how do we get people and freight moving , as opposed to "someone cocked up and ....blah , blah"

Someone did cock up. Nowadays track maintenance is done with cost in mind. Go back to the BR days things were just done.

Same applies to passenger services, TOCs would rather cancel trains once delays occur than do what is right for the customer. Please feel free to tell me I am being sentimental or melodramatic; but those are my memories.

 

[Clip]

Sounds like many people on here don't respect people's personal views.

The only bo**ocks being spouted is being done by those carrying a "mightier than thou" complex.

.

To be perfectly fair, Both those sentences apply to you.

You industry insider you. You are the first person we have ever had on this forum who works on the railway so we should really defer to you and your far superior knowledge and chip on your shoulder.

 

[Tomnick]

Ok, I apologise for getting your involvement in the industry wrong. Quite a few people who apply for drivers jobs do end up in the driving grade - that's the whole point. Could you set us straight then, so that we might understand the position from which you keep stating facts facts (different to personal views) that you keep stating?

Why does Crossrail mean that an additional signal box when Liverpool Street IECC already controls the whole area adequately? What would it achieve when everyone else is trying to consolidate their signalling control (and Control function) into one building for a whole region?

 

[TheEdge]

Interesting to note how quick East Anglian MP' s were quick to appear on local tv on this occasion ?? Including ex rail minister Simon Burns !

It was a fairly cheap political attempt to look in touch wasn't it...

 

[O L Leigh]

Sounds like many people on here don't respect people's personal views.

We do. But you are not stating any views, just "facts".

The only bo**ocks being spouted is being done by those carrying a "mightier than thou" complex.

You do have a mirror, right...?

And why does it matter if the signal box is relocated?
One word: Crossrail... Surely the Romford signal bx should have been an addition not a replacement.

Why?

As has already been said, there is an increasing move towards centralisation that will result in the closure of many other signalling centres, both large and small.

At this point can I just ask again, are you sure you work within the rail industry...? It's just that your posting history suggests that you applied to be a driver on GA and, unless things have progressed much since January, you were unsuccessful.

Someone did cock up. Nowadays track maintenance is done with cost in mind. Go back to the BR days things were just done.

Yes, of course they were. Things were just done without regard to cost to the extent that BR was seriously considering closing many more lines as the infrastructure simply crumbled away. Lines that we consider vital today would have simply ceased to exist, including the Settle & Carlisle, the Chiltern line through Banbury and the Breckland and Fen route between Norwich and Peterborough via Ely among many many others.

Same applies to passenger services, TOCs would rather cancel trains once delays occur than do what is right for the customer. Please feel free to tell me I am being sentimental or melodramatic; but those are my memories.

Then your memory is seriously faulty, which undermines your contention that you are an industry insider.

O L Leigh