"Full and standing"

[headshot119]

If it's a 2 car Pacer with 2+2 seating then it's only got 25% more seats than a 1 car 153, despite having double the number of carriages.
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I've noticed the train doors on 4 car formations leaving Liverpool now say carriage D and carriage C on the front two carriages instead of having carriage A twice and carriage B twice, as was once the case.
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And what about if you had an Advance ticket?

Even if it was a Northern service there could be some people with Advance tickets who were picking up a regional/intercity service at Piccadilly.

The EMT 158s seem to have been fitted with a new T-Key operated label holder which allows the coach letter to be easily changed on each door without having to have printed labels.

Quite a good idea maybe Arriva should take note.

 

[6Gman]

There's no sleeper service to or from Birmingham.

I was at Crewe!

 

[ATW Alex 101]

Seen quite a few of these notices on crewe departure boards

 

[louis97]

FGW like to display "Please note that this train is formed of X coaches" on the CIS screens, routinely for all Sprinter services. I've never really understood why it is emphasised with such an air of importance.

The screens show a formation for all FGW services, not quite as emphasised as you make out though... 'Formed of x coaches' at HSS stations, and Please Note: 'Formed of x coaches' for other stations.

It is only ever emphasised when a service is short formed.

 

[Rich McLean]

Was funny at Newton Abbot when the Plymouth all shacks service displayed "Formed of 1 Coach" lol

 

[BestWestern]

The screens show a formation for all FGW services, not quite as emphasised as you make out though... 'Formed of x coaches' at HSS stations, and Please Note: 'Formed of x coaches' for other stations.

It is only ever emphasised when a service is short formed.

By 'emphasised', I was referring to the scrolling request that passengers take the time to make a note of the expected size of the train, which is utterly superfluous in normal circumstances. For what reason do the pax need to 'note' the length of the train; what benefit does this offer prior to said train arriving? I have no problem with the more sensible stuff like "Coach A/First Class is at the front/back" etc, or the reverse formation announcement for HST's, as these serve a practical purpose. Simply telling people that the train has X number of coaches however is utterly pointless, unless something is short formed. Ditto for Southern and their on board "This is coach X of X" twaddle, on trains which have no seating reservations and no other apparent need for any such waffle to be going out over the PA!

Another irritating one, for FGW services at SWT stations is "Please note: Only three reserved cycles only on this service", or words very similar, in particular containing double use of the word 'only'. Pedantic I know, but surely not acceptable for a public information screen, and again completely useless - some of the 'hybrid' three car sets working these services have a double cycle bay and can hold six, and 798 - the 'proper' three car, can swallow about nine of them! Too much information helps nobody.

 

[krus_aragon]

FGW like to display "Please note that this train is formed of X coaches" on the CIS screens, routinely for all Sprinter services. I've never really understood why it is emphasised with such an air of importance.

It seems to be of use in places such as Stroud, which have an hourly service in each direction, of which half are HSTs to and from London and the other half are Sprinters to and from Swindon. It gives you an idea of where to stand, especially if you've got a bicycle to stow away!

 

[Welshman]

By 'emphasised', I was referring to the scrolling request that passengers take the time to make a note of the expected size of the train, which is utterly superfluous in normal circumstances. For what reason do the pax need to 'note' the length of the train; what benefit does this offer prior to said train arriving?

Ditto for Southern and their on board "This is coach X of X" twaddle, on trains which have no seating reservations and no other apparent need for any such waffle to be going out over the PA!

I find it useful if I'm on an unfamiliar line and am not aware of the usual length of the train I'm awaiting. Then, if there's a crowd of people gathered round the centre of the platform[or wherever the entrance is] and the PIS informs me the train is formed of 8 coaches, I go and wait in the relative seclusion of the "8-Car" stop board.

Also if I'm on a Southern train which divides during is journey and the onboard announcement says "Front 4 coaches for X; Rear 4 for Y" then being reminded which coach I'm currently in either re-assures me or warns me I should move!

Incidentally, it would also be useful at London Euston to know before boarding how long the SuperVoyager to Chester is - whether it is a single or double set [5 or 10 coaches], as I can't remember the particular diagram for every train. For when you go down the ramp you can't tell how long the train is for the curvature of the platform, so in the mad dash for seats you can either grab the first seat free in the first set and be sure [and sit like sardines in a can all the way], or go further up the platform in the hope of finding a quieter set at the country end. Then, of course, if there is no such second set, all the seats you've passed have been taken on your return!

Oh, the joys of using Euston!

 

[The Prisoner]

There's been a 4 coach Super Voyager doing the rounds on the EUS-CTR service. Coach C has been taken out (which confused all the punters with reservations in there!) for a fault repair.

The greedy buggers kept half of coach D for 1st class still, and there were no unreserved seats at all, and just 2.5 coaches of standard.

Rather bizarrely it was on the first off peak CTR departure of the day a week or so ago when I was on it, and was full & standing by the time it got to Crewe. They apparently advised customers at Crewe not to board it, but since their London services are down to 2 per hour now I doubt people had much of a choice, and it was a down the aisles job from there.

They did stop it @ MKC as booked, but I could see the staff on the platform preventing a lot of people from boarding for safety reasons. The return working said it was stopping at MKC to pick up only due to short formation.

The EUS-CTR/N Wales services frequently lose half of their punters at MKC. A by product of their rigid stopping patterns. Shows that there is a gap in the market for a non stop shuttle, and the first half of the journey is very uncomfortable for those travelling to Crewe & beyond. Not a fan of the First award, but they seem to acknowledge that 5 car Voyagers are completely inadequate for these and the BHM-Scotland services at least....

 

[island]

I'm sorry, you get 2 coaches?! That's just greedy, some of us have to make do with 1 lol.

If it's only got 1 coach, it isn't a train

 

[Tomonthetrain]

If it's only got 1 coach, it isn't a train

It's half a train...unless its a cl 139 when it's a pain in the rear

 

[calc7]

There's been a 4 coach Super Voyager doing the rounds on the EUS-CTR service. Coach C has been taken out (which confused all the punters with reservations in there!) for a fault repair.

The greedy buggers kept half of coach D for 1st class still, and there were no unreserved seats at all, and just 2.5 coaches of standard.

Rather bizarrely it was on the first off peak CTR departure of the day a week or so ago when I was on it, and was full & standing by the time it got to Crewe. They apparently advised customers at Crewe not to board it, but since their London services are down to 2 per hour now I doubt people had much of a choice, and it was a down the aisles job from there.

They did stop it @ MKC as booked, but I could see the staff on the platform preventing a lot of people from boarding for safety reasons. The return working said it was stopping at MKC to pick up only due to short formation.

The EUS-CTR/N Wales services frequently lose half of their punters at MKC. A by product of their rigid stopping patterns. Shows that there is a gap in the market for a non stop shuttle, and the first half of the journey is very uncomfortable for those travelling to Crewe & beyond. Not a fan of the First award, but they seem to acknowledge that 5 car Voyagers are completely inadequate for these and the BHM-Scotland services at least....

Doesn't help that the 10 / 20 / 43 pattern for EUS-MKC services sees the xx10 Voyager after the long 27-minute gap. Also, the 10 past is popular with businesspeople as it means you will be in the office for a meeting on the hour.

Ideally, Virgin would stop a fourth service each hour there. However, the only obvious candidates in the current 00/03/07/10/20/23/30/40/43 set of departures is either the xx30 Lancaster/Glasgow service which then ruins the non-stop to Warrington proposition.

Maybe we'll have to wait for a recast.

 

[John55]

By 'emphasised', I was referring to the scrolling request that passengers take the time to make a note of the expected size of the train, which is utterly superfluous in normal circumstances. For what reason do the pax need to 'note' the length of the train; what benefit does this offer prior to said train arriving? I have no problem with the more sensible stuff like "Coach A/First Class is at the front/back" etc, or the reverse formation announcement for HST's, as these serve a practical purpose. Simply telling people that the train has X number of coaches however is utterly pointless, unless something is short formed. Ditto for Southern and their on board "This is coach X of X" twaddle, on trains which have no seating reservations and no other apparent need for any such waffle to be going out over the PA!

Another irritating one, for FGW services at SWT stations is "Please note: Only three reserved cycles only on this service", or words very similar, in particular containing double use of the word 'only'. Pedantic I know, but surely not acceptable for a public information screen, and again completely useless - some of the 'hybrid' three car sets working these services have a double cycle bay and can hold six, and 798 - the 'proper' three car, can swallow about nine of them! Too much information helps nobody.

On the station I use most often knowing how long the train is tells you where to stand on the platform as different length trains stop at opposite ends of the platform. For example a 4 car stops at the London end and a 6 car stops at the country end. These trains occupy completely different parts of the platform so if you expect a 4 car and a 6 car arrives you need to walk along the platform to get on.

 

[12CSVT]

There's been a 4 coach Super Voyager doing the rounds on the EUS-CTR service. Coach C has been taken out (which confused all the punters with reservations in there!) for a fault repair.

The greedy buggers kept half of coach D for 1st class still, and there were no unreserved seats at all, and just 2.5 coaches of standard.

Rather bizarrely it was on the first off peak CTR departure of the day a week or so ago when I was on it, and was full & standing by the time it got to Crewe. They apparently advised customers at Crewe not to board it, but since their London services are down to 2 per hour now I doubt people had much of a choice, and it was a down the aisles job from there.

They did stop it @ MKC as booked, but I could see the staff on the platform preventing a lot of people from boarding for safety reasons. The return working said it was stopping at MKC to pick up only due to short formation.

The EUS-CTR/N Wales services frequently lose half of their punters at MKC. A by product of their rigid stopping patterns. Shows that there is a gap in the market for a non stop shuttle, and the first half of the journey is very uncomfortable for those travelling to Crewe & beyond. Not a fan of the First award, but they seem to acknowledge that 5 car Voyagers are completely inadequate for these and the BHM-Scotland services at least....

One thing which is much needed is the re-introduction of an hourly direct service between Crewe and the North Wales coast, irrespctive of whether such a service is run by ATW or Virgin / First West Coast. The other day I witnessed a late running 158 unit on a Holyhead - Birmingham arrive at Chester completely wedged, and then disgorge about 90% of its passengers, most of whom then trudged down platform 3 to board a Voyager (departed late due to the sheer volume of last minute passenger) which in turn departed completely wedged. Apparantly this scenario is repeated every hour every day.

 

[lj9090]

FGW like to display "Please note that this train is formed of X coaches" on the CIS screens, routinely for all Sprinter services. I've never really understood why it is emphasised with such an air of importance.

Bikes.

If you take a bike you can't just move through the train once you're on at some point before you get to your destination. If you're heading to a short platform, it's quite useful to know sometime before the train arrives if you *need* to be in a particular place otherwise you just won't get off. Saves a mad panic and a run down the platform when what turns up is a little longer than anticipated.

Even if this doesn't apply, if you happen to know which door is closest to the exit at your destination for every train and every length that might turn up, it's nice to know in advance what's going to appear.

 

[BestWestern]

Bikes.

If you take a bike you can't just move through the train once you're on at some point before you get to your destination. If you're heading to a short platform, it's quite useful to know sometime before the train arrives if you *need* to be in a particular place otherwise you just won't get off. Saves a mad panic and a run down the platform when what turns up is a little longer than anticipated.

Even if this doesn't apply, if you happen to know which door is closest to the exit at your destination for every train and every length that might turn up, it's nice to know in advance what's going to appear.

In the case of FGW's units, sadly that doesn't apply. It might be one car, or two or three, but God only knows what it'll be when it pulls in!

I'd have to venture that if you know the layout of every train you'd probably also know what length it was likely to be anyhow!

 

[Welshman]

There's been a 4 coach Super Voyager doing the rounds on the EUS-CTR service. Coach C has been taken out (which confused all the punters with reservations in there!) for a fault repair.

The EUS-CTR/N Wales services frequently lose half of their punters at MKC. A by product of their rigid stopping patterns. Shows that there is a gap in the market for a non stop shuttle, and the first half of the journey is very uncomfortable for those travelling to Crewe & beyond. Not a fan of the First award, but they seem to acknowledge that 5 car Voyagers are completely inadequate for these and the BHM-Scotland services at least....

Yes - that's the one which caught fire in Scotland a while ago. Does anyone know how long it will be before the 5th coach is ready for service again?

I agree a non-stop shuttle between Euston & Milton Keynes would be fine, if paths and stock could be found. Then the North Wales/Chester -Eustons could be pick-up/set-down only, or perhaps even call more regularly somewhere else, like Nuneaton? {I think 1 morning up and 1 evening down currently do}.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

One thing which is much needed is the re-introduction of an hourly direct service between Crewe and the North Wales coast, irrespctive of whether such a service is run by ATW or Virgin / First West Coast. The other day I witnessed a late running 158 unit on a Holyhead - Birmingham arrive at Chester completely wedged, and then disgorge about 90% of its passengers, most of whom then trudged down platform 3 to board a Voyager (departed late due to the sheer volume of last minute passenger) which in turn departed completely wedged. Apparantly this scenario is repeated every hour every day.

I am in total agreement with this. It's a real pain to have to carry luggage over the bridge at Chester to then board either the Crewe shuttle or a crowded Voyager for the next part of the journey.

There used to be an hourly service Holyhead-Crewe [and still is returning from Crewe on a Sunday afternoon and evening]. But ATW in their wisdom seem to think we all want to go to Cardiff every other hour during the week.

 

[northwichcat]

But ATW in their wisdom seem to think we all want to go to Cardiff every other hour during the week.

You mean WAG.

Had they not made so much fuss about a 'Wales franchise' it would be easier for North Wales to have better links to Crewe, Liverpool and Manchester Airport but they're difficult to fit in alongside regular Cardiff services without having so many train services that most don't have many passengers.

 

[kieron]

I am in total agreement with this. It's a real pain to have to carry luggage over the bridge at Chester to then board either the Crewe shuttle or a crowded Voyager for the next part of the journey.

Rather than rewrite the timetable for the convenience of a few passengers, wouldn't it be better to have late-running Shrewsbury trains pull into platform 2 or 3? There's more than enough space on platform 3 for a 158 and a Voyager if both are going to reverse out.

 

[317666]

There's been a 4 coach Super Voyager doing the rounds on the EUS-CTR service. Coach C has been taken out (which confused all the punters with reservations in there!) for a fault repair.

If that's 221101, it's been like that for a few months now! Luckily, both times it was in my train on the North Wales coast it was with another five-car unit!

 

[PHILIPE]

If that's 221101, it's been like that for a few months now! Luckily, both times it was in my train on the North Wales coast it was with another five-car unit!

Fire damage at Lockerbie which has been well documented already on a WCML flooding thread as the train it was working was heavily delayed by the floods.

 

[MCR247]

If that's 221101, it's been like that for a few months now! Luckily, both times it was in my train on the North Wales coast it was with another five-car unit!

Not sure its luck it has a specific diagram I think to minimize distruption

 

[Welshman]

Rather than rewrite the timetable for the convenience of a few passengers, wouldn't it be better to have late-running Shrewsbury trains pull into platform 2 or 3? There's more than enough space on platform 3 for a 158 and a Voyager if both are going to reverse out.

That would certainly be an improvement rather than the North Wales/Shrewsbury using platform 4. Problem is if it's a double voyager, it needs all of platform 3!

 

[Rhydgaled]

You mean WAG.

Had they not made so much fuss about a 'Wales franchise' it would be easier for North Wales to have better links to Crewe, Liverpool and Manchester Airport but they're difficult to fit in alongside regular Cardiff services without having so many train services that most don't have many passengers.

Why could the Wales franchise not have the current 2-hourly Holyhead - Cardiff service replaced by the following (except the obvious issue of lack of stock)?:

• A 2-hourly Chester - Cardiff service,
• A 2-hourly Holyhead - Crewe service and
• 3 Holyhead - Cardiff express trains each way per day

It doesn't increase the service frequency much (in fact, only by the two express trains per day between Holyhead and Cardiff if the 2-hourly Holyhead - Crewe service is an extension of the Chester - Crewe shuttle rather than additional to it) and provides the link to Crewe.

 

[Welshman]

Not sure its luck it has a specific diagram I think to minimize distruption

It does have a specific diagram, but that didn't stop it turning-up on the rear instead of the front of the 1810 Euston-Wrexham/Holyhead recently, which meant that come Chester, 5 coaches of fresh air went to Wrexham and a rammed 4-car set continued to Holyhead!!

 

[MCR247]

Ouch! Couldn't they have swapped things round at euston before boarding and had the 5 car to Holyhead etc

 

[Flamingo]

Ouch! Couldn't they have swapped things round at euston before boarding and had the 5 car to Holyhead etc

Depends on lots of things, remaining fuel, where they both need to end up at night, or what traction the driver & guard sign, just to pull three obvious ones out of my head.

 

[greatkingrat]

Do you mean there are some drivers who sign 5-car Voyagers but not 4-car Voyagers or vice versa?

 

[MCR247]

No there arent

 

[Flamingo]

I was thinking more in general terms, on FGW I once had someone demanding to know why the driver of the 125 couldn't be pulled to work a 158 who'se driver was missing.