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Fuel Strikes?
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table38
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Badger
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I hate to be a devil's advocate, but this is the point of strikes, and it's exactly what they are doing. And I personally think it is terrible that it can be allowed to happen (I am not saying that they should be happy with what they have, I am saying striking shouldn't be an option, it shouldn't get to that stage. I don't know how that could be done! Besides the government regulating wages, which is communism and hated by many, I don't know a solution. But I still maintain that striking is a bad thing.)
Striking hurts the little, blameless, people more than it hurts the government. It stops people getting to work, it makes commuters' lives hell, and it has the potential to cut people off (tube strikes, train strikes, etc). It is a bad thing.
I'm getting defensive of myself but note that being "a bad thing" doesn't mean I'm not supportive of the strikers.
I hate to be a devil's advocate, but this is the point of strikes, and it's exactly what they are doing. And I personally think it is terrible that it can be allowed to happen (I am not saying that they should be happy with what they have, I am saying striking shouldn't be an option, it shouldn't get to that stage. I don't know how that could be done! Besides the government regulating wages, which is communism and hated by many, I don't know a solution. But I still maintain that striking is a bad thing.)
Striking hurts the little, blameless, people more than it hurts the government. It stops people getting to work, it makes commuters' lives hell, and it has the potential to cut people off (tube strikes, train strikes, etc). It is a bad thing.
I'm getting defensive of myself but note that being "a bad thing" doesn't mean I'm not supportive of the strikers.
I don't think anyone would say that strike is ever a good thing. It is, of course, meant to hurt the profits of the employers. As it also hits the workers pay, it is best avoided at all costs.
That said, unless a union is prepared to ballot for strike action, and to take action if necessary, then they will always have the weaker hand in negotiations. Similarly, an employer who always caves in will also always have the weaker hand.
Negotiations are a game of poker. Calling a strike ballot is one of the ways the employee side can put pressure on the employers. It does not eman a strike is inevitable, as the government is well aware.
I'm just about to go and try and get some petrol. There were a lot of queues yesterday, purely because people were afraid of petrol running out due to panic buying. What a mess, panic buying leads to a frenzy of more panic buying!
notadriver
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Staff pass? Are you on the buses ?
notadriver
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lol, i got some dirty looks today when i pulled in the services in my truck, pulled up between 2 pumps, handed my card in then promptly took one nozzle out of one pump and stuck it in one tank then walked round the other side took the nozzle out the other pump and stuck it in the other tank and took 424 litres of diesel..got more dirty looks when i went in and paid and got 30 odd Esso Cash back tokens!
Is it hard to learn how to drive a fuel tanker? I know a car driver could get their C+E in about two weeks and Ive seen 5 day ADR courses. There must be more to it than that or everyone would be doing it?
SS4
Established Member
Quite.
In my opinion the government is pouring fuel on the fire by advising that half filled tanks are topped up which is largely synonymous with buy now or run out later. Tory track record towards unions is not negotiation...
GearJammer
Member
Its not hard to learn how to drive any kind of truck (just bloody expensive), but to actually get behind the wheel you need experiance, i heard someone say you need at least 10 years experiance of driving normal standard artics before you'd even be considered for a tanker driving job.
And just getting behind the wheel of a standard truck is hard enough when you only just passed your test!
Ive always said and maintained this... ANYONE can drive a truck, its easy, but it takes a special kind of person to be a truck driver!
Anyone on here who is a truck driver will know what i mean!
ralphchadkirk
Established Member
A trained monkey could drive a lorry, the same as a trained monkey could cannulate someone. The psychomotor skills aren't hard. What is hard is the judgement required - which is difficult to teach. Can you get your lorry round that corner? Maybe, maybe not. Do you need to cannulate someone etc.
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Mmm, plenty of doctors seem to have trouble doing it (well) - judging by mess made of my mum's arms. Perhaps it's because they generally don't do as many as nurses.
Nurses are not trained to do this for their registration, it's a post qualification skill and there are quite a qualified few nurses that are unable to. I believe it is part of the undergraduate training for doctors though and so all doctors would be able to do this.
notadriver
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So it's difficult to get a job yet (in the case of ordinary truck drivers) very poorly paid by comparison? On another forum 'ordinary' truckers can't understand why their tanker driver colleagues get so much more money while they don't.
Nym
Established Member
+1 there, legally, anyone could have driven the vehicles I did in the latter days of my driving, but actually doing an 11hr shift driving 400+ miles and tipping a couple of tonnes of boxed load in a day isn't something anyone can do.
For example, before I got braught in (thanks to illness of the depot manager) they put out the local sales manager in one of the vehicles to cover cumbria, he took nearly twice as long as anyone else and came back saying "Never again." Cumbria was one of the easyest routes we had, only 8 drops, and they took all the lifts off him too and put them on Lancs.
PS: Put on by FLT for my 1st load, handballed off and sorted on route to prevent what happened in Harrogate (Thanks mini driver for that!) 2nd load was handballed on and off, and was rather heavy after doing 9hrs, 2nd usually was a quick run into East Lancs from Bolton.
Aictos
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On a local bus last night at 10pm going home, the bus got obstructed by drivers panic buying at a local garage, my view on these actions is that drivers who do that are just acting as headless and selfish chickens.
The way I see it is simple, the more these drivers panic buy then the less fuel becomes available to the more sensible drivers out there.
The worse that could happen is for fuel to be rationed as it was during World War 2 but it has to get a lot more worse to get to that stage.
The way I see it is simple, the more these drivers panic buy then the less fuel becomes available to the more sensible drivers out there.
The worse that could happen is for fuel to be rationed as it was during World War 2 but it has to get a lot more worse to get to that stage.
SS4
Established Member
Rationing wouldn't be all that bad. Panic buying means those who have the most capital get the fuel whereas those who need it may not. As long as there is a suitable amount of fuel for essential public services and they got priority.
To even talk about rationing grants a legitimacy to the media scaremongering. Isn't this a 24 hour strike for date unknown?
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Would you rather some soccer mom driving a Chelsea tractor got enough fuel to drop her kid off to school 1km away or that someone could have enough fuel to get to work over 10km away in a more economical car?
To even talk about rationing grants a legitimacy to the media scaremongering. Isn't this a 24 hour strike for date unknown?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Would you rather some soccer mom driving a Chelsea tractor got enough fuel to drop her kid off to school 1km away or that someone could have enough fuel to get to work over 10km away in a more economical car?
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Badger
Member
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17558294
Hope the government's happy:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-17560534
Minilad
Established Member
Why is it the gov'mints fault that a woman is stupid enough to get burnt doing that then
Badger
Member
Sorry it was a terrible and incorrect look for a quick dig. It's the government's fault for all the panic buying, but you're right, not in this case.
Now we're not saying you should panic and buy petrol... but go and buy petrol quick!
Now we're not saying you should panic and buy petrol... but go and buy petrol quick!
Kernowfem
Member
I'm just glad I filled up six weeks ago before I sadly had to hang up my driving gloves for a short while. Today was my first time back behind the wheel and passing our local petrol stations they were snided!! All this fuss for nothing. The proposed strike wasn't even till next weekend!!
While the Government didn't help and their handling of it has been woeful, I'm sorry, but the intellectually challenged population of the UK share some of the blame. No immediate threat of a strike, but still, off they all go like sheep to bleed the petrol stations dry, thus creating a panic.
As regards to the woman, she was decanting petrol in the kitchen with her gas oven on! I mean, talk about a near Darwin Award?!
As regards to the woman, she was decanting petrol in the kitchen with her gas oven on! I mean, talk about a near Darwin Award?!
Schnellzug
Established Member
It says it all, I think, in one of the papers, the kind that you often find on Trains;
"Rise in sales of Petrol: 81%.
Extra Fuel Duty collected on Wednesday alone; £32m."
It was either very, very stupid advice, or it wasn't stupid at all and Mr. Cameroon knew exactly what he was doing.
Either way, Is there anyone who'd still like to try to argue that Mr. Cameroon is fit to hold office?
"Rise in sales of Petrol: 81%.
Extra Fuel Duty collected on Wednesday alone; £32m."
It was either very, very stupid advice, or it wasn't stupid at all and Mr. Cameroon knew exactly what he was doing.
Either way, Is there anyone who'd still like to try to argue that Mr. Cameroon is fit to hold office?
SS4
Established Member
If you decant petrol in the kitchen you get what's coming to you.
Unfortunately vast swathes of the population are too thick to think for themselves and pick the facts from the media hyperbole
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Loathe as I am to admit it, that was quite intelligent albeit in the devious way we've come to expect. Spreading lies and fear for financial/power gain has been going on for thousands of years - just ask the Pope
Unfortunately vast swathes of the population are too thick to think for themselves and pick the facts from the media hyperbole
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Loathe as I am to admit it, that was quite intelligent albeit in the devious way we've come to expect. Spreading lies and fear for financial/power gain has been going on for thousands of years - just ask the Pope
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Considering the alternatives....yes!
Especially if, as has been reported, she had a gas ring on at the time :roll:
Gratuitous dig or what! (OK, absolutely correct, but...)
Unless those who have filled up use their petrol to take journeys they would not otherwise have done, this is not extra income, just differently distributed income. But why let that get in the way of a dig at the Tories?
table38
Established Member
Sure, but it doesn't mean people are buying more petrol overall, just buying it earlier.
In fact, I would still contend that average fuel sales will be down over the entire period because people are trying to conserve the fuel they have.
Even I'm planning to get the train to Crewe for the BLS tour tomorrow rather than drive!
Schnellzug
Established Member
Seeing as, if there are any strikes at all, they won't be for weeks yet, are the people queuing up to buy now going to park their cars up and keep them in reserve until then? I doubt it. Theu're going to use them just as much as ever, aren't they, so then they'll need to buy more again before any strikes come about, if they ever do. Ergo: much more petrol sold, & much more revenue for the Government.
table38
Established Member
The answer is in your own post.
Other than making extra trips to buy fuel I suppose
Schnellzug
Established Member
See above. Of course they're making journeys they would not otherwise have done; they're making more journeys to the Petrol station for one thing, and again, do you think that people, having filled up, will then not use their cars until there are any Strikes? If the People are that stupid as to rush out and panic buy the moment a Politician suggests that it might be a good idea, are they that far-sighted to leave their cars until the forecourts really have run dry?
Why let that get in the way of a dig at the Tories? Because it is, I believe, i checked on Wikipedia to make sure, a Tory Prime Minister and Tory Cabinet Ministers currently in office. That seems reasonable grounds to have a dig at the Tories.
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The answer is in your own post.
Other than making extra trips to buy fuel I suppose
i don't understand your argument. Are you saying that people are not buying more Petrol that they would ordinarily?
table38
Established Member
Over a period of time, absolutely. Why would they need to?
Schnellzug
Established Member
Why would they need to buy more Petrol? well, let's think ...
You fill up with Petrol today. You drive everywhere, as you usually would. Then you need to buy more Petrol, having used it up. Isn't that how it usually works? So having rushed out to fill up their tanks in anticipation of a strike that's still hypothetical, people will have used up all that Petrol by the time any strikes are called, do you see? So then they'll have to panic buy all over again, won't they. Do think that people have thought that far ahead that, having queued up to buy Petrol, they will then park up their cars and not use them unless they absolutely have to? You credit the People with that degree of farsightedness? Is there any evidence to support this theory? Is there any noticeable reduction in the amount of traffic? Are car parks noticeably less full?
You fill up with Petrol today. You drive everywhere, as you usually would. Then you need to buy more Petrol, having used it up. Isn't that how it usually works? So having rushed out to fill up their tanks in anticipation of a strike that's still hypothetical, people will have used up all that Petrol by the time any strikes are called, do you see? So then they'll have to panic buy all over again, won't they. Do think that people have thought that far ahead that, having queued up to buy Petrol, they will then park up their cars and not use them unless they absolutely have to? You credit the People with that degree of farsightedness? Is there any evidence to support this theory? Is there any noticeable reduction in the amount of traffic? Are car parks noticeably less full?
table38
Established Member
But you haven't explained why you think they are buying more petrol overall, just that they fill up more often. All they have done is brought their usual petrol buying forward.
I thought of a (poor) analogy...
Every Sunday night I have Beans on Toast.
Government idiot announces a shortage of baked beans, so I panic-buy 8 tins.
But then for the next seven weeks, I don't buy any beans at all.
Then, as I want to preserve my stockpile, for a few Sundays I have Cheese on Toast instead.
So perhaps over a 10 week period, I've only actually bought 8 tins of beans instead of my usual 10.
No, but I and some colleagues who do a fair few miles a week, have noticed more people going 55mph on motorways/trunk roads! And as I said, I'm certainly avoiding using the car.
So still I content that (if only in my case), I will actually use less petrol over the equivalent period than say last year.
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