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fTPE Rolling Stock

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GNERman

GNERman

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First Transpennine Express

Rolling Stock

Started using 158's (formerly of Arrive Trains Northern branch of TPE) and 175's (leased from FNW)

These were handed back.

Class 185 and 170 replace.

Class 185 were new and do 100mph.

Class 170 were ex SWT and do 100mph.

Routes Operated

Liverpool - Man Pic - Huddersfield - Leeds - York - Scarborough
Man Airport - Man Pic - Huddersfield - Leeds - York - Darlington - Newcastle
Man Airport - Man Pic - Huddersfield - Leeds - York - Northallerton - Middlesborough
Man Pic - Huddersfield - Leeds - Selby - Hull

Man Airport - Man Pic - Sheffield - Doncaster - Grimsby - Cleethorpes

Man Airport - Man Pic - Bolton - Preston - Blackpool North
Man Airport - Man Pic - Bolton - Preston - Lancaster - Carnforth - Barrow
Man Airport - Man Pic - Bolton - Preston - Lancaster - Oxenholme - Windermere
Man Airport - Man Pic - Bolton - Preston - Lancaster - Carlisle - Glasgow/Edinburgh

some stations missed

The Problems

Rolling Stock

Now we all know that the 185's are better than what they replaced BUT I think that fTPE missed a major point with them.

Speed.

York - Newcastle = 125mph
Preston - Glasgow/Edinburgh = 125mph

Class 185 = 100mph

Can you see what I mean.

There was talk that 180's would be hired to increase capacity give higher speeds but this never happened.

Electrification

The Man - Edinburgh/Glasgow route is all electrified except between Man - Bolton - Preston

Surely it would have been easier to get new stock which could work on both like the IEP...

Any more thoughts on this matter...
 
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ffcphone

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It's been reported fTPE operate the Scottish services to the same timings as Virgin (and briefly Arriva) CrossCountry Voyager (125 mph) services did due to reducing dwell times at stations such as Preston.

In any event, I understand large sections of the WCML closer to the border are limited to below 100mph so to call the whole Preston-Glasgow stretch 125mph is a generalisation too far and thus the loss of time due to a 100mph train is less than first thought.

As to electrification, why not electrify from Ordsall Lane to Euxton Junction and therefore allow 100% electric working. I know it's one of the areas NR have identified in their electrification plans but they don't feel it's top priority at the moment.

F
 
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mbonwick

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WCML is only 125 for EPS authorised trains north of Lancaster....all other stock is limited to 110mph.
The 185s aren't suitable for the cross-border runs I agree, but they weren't designed for it either.
When ordered TPE had no intention of goin into Scotland...remember that this was 3/4/5 years ago.
 
222001

222001

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With the engines the 185s have (same engines as 22x and 180) I bet they could reach 125mph. The only problem is that the other components fitted can only probably take 100mph.
 
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bluenoxid

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222001 said:
With the engines the 185s have (same engines as 22x and 180) I bet they could reach 125mph. The only problem is that the other components fitted can only probably take 100mph.
Click to expand...

In addition meeting modern crash worthiness rules. They have a very solid front and drag increases disproportionally with speed. You would have brakes and the engines/gearing ratio to think of first in addition to the bogies.

Getting the 185's to reach 125 might seem a great idea but the improved acceleration has delivered more benefits than those higher speeds ever would
 
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me123

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An IEP style train would be ideal. The stock saved could potentially be used to strengthen other services. The 125mph trains would be extremely beneficial but of course would need to tilt to be of much use going to Glasgow.
 
Bastiaan

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An other point you're missing is that a 185 has a hydraulic transmission, which wouldn't be suitable for higher speeds than 100 mph, I think. A 22x has electric transmission, which is a lot more capable for higher speeds.
 
GNERman

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yeah an iep deriative would be good...
the class 172 would be good as it's lighter and will accelerate quicker plus drivers are trained on 170's...
 
MCR247

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GNERman said:
yeah an iep deriative would be good...
the class 172 would be good as it's lighter and will accelerate quicker plus drivers are trained on 170's...
Click to expand...

but I dont think 172s & 170s will be the same driving wise :idea:
 
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jopsuk

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Bastiaan said:
An other point you're missing is that a 185 has a hydraulic transmission, which wouldn't be suitable for higher speeds than 100 mph, I think. A 22x has electric transmission, which is a lot more capable for higher speeds.
Click to expand...

180s can do 125mph. They have hydraulic transmission- all 1xx classes are hydrualic or mechanical transmission (with 2xx being diesel-electric).
 
djw1981

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Thus the bogies may be rated for 110mph?

Let's not forget that the 125mph requires a different structural build quality in case of collision.
 
222001

222001

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djw1981 said:
Thus the bogies may be rated for 110mph?

Let's not forget that the 125mph requires a different structural build quality in case of collision.
Click to expand...

The body is going to be a normal 170 body so I think it will only be 100mph. The bogies on the artists impression look nothing like 220/222 bogies.
 
MCR247

MCR247

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GNERman said:
how will a 170/172 be different driving?
it's just a turbostar in voyager bogies...
Click to expand...

Ok, then if you say so. But the fTPE ones would probably have gangways if they did order them?
 
djw1981

djw1981

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Why, fTPE have no other gangwayed stock. fTPE are happy at the moment running 2x3car trains with the flexibility of the larger and allegedly more comfortable drivers cab (less draughts) than a gangwayed cab would give. Many operators are having gangway doors sealed even when they run those units in multiple.
 
GNERman

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nice photo here...

Class_172.jpg


i presume they could run with 170's and 171's as well as 150, 158 etc...
 
MCR247

MCR247

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GNERman said:
nice photo here...


i presume they could run with 170's and 171's as well as 150, 158 etc...
Click to expand...

How can they run with both 15x, 170s & 171s. The 171 have Delner couplers, and 170s dont otherwise they would be 170/7 & 170/8 ;) It depends what coupler they want, I think that Chiltern will have the ones on 170s and LM going for the 170 ones.
 
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