Frustration!

[axlecounter]

The problem is that yes, get on with your life but then what ? Is it really the TOC's fault you left the country ? They then had the audacity to blame someone else for being unavailable due to leave. WTF is that about. If you missed an opportunity because YOU were unavailable then that is wholly your fault. The risk is yours and yours alone.

As to the patience element. Consider that both aren't mutually exclusive. This is a long process and as in ANY recruitment, when they send out interview dates etc etc they can be at the drop of a hat. You wait 2 weeks then you get a short notice date and then complain about how long it takes and both how quick your given a date. Give me a break. Its just the ungrateful and selfish attitude or people today that everyone should bend to them and everything is someone else's fault.

Companies will recruit in their own way and how, when and if they reply is down to them and not the applicant. This is not just a railway thing. Its a symptom of recruitment in general. The phrase don't call us, we'll call you is decades old. There are even some that say a non reply means you aint getting the job.

With numerous applicants nowadays for every job and role going, How do you propose they reply to hundreds of people and in what order ? This is well known and just shows ignorance and patience when you get an angry rant. To me that also shows the quality of the applicant.

Just read through the epic GTR thread. SOme of those have been waiting and waiting and rarely an angry rant between them. Frustration for sure. Even worse when they find out what is happening to the current influx of Trainees and that tbvfh would really shock you but the attitude and professionalism some of those have shown is to be commended.

The OP left the country then complained, it's their fault.

While I generally agree with you on the increased selfishness and the generalised it's-his/her/their-fault attitude in our society I'm not sure about the rest.
It seems that you know a lot about the recruiting process and maybe, seen how you talk, have heard all kind of stories about it, from a TOC perspective, I'll give you that.

But in our society a job is still a thing of capital importance to people. Not only because it pays the bills, but because basically without a job you're out, if you have it but it doesn't pay enough you're in trouble, if you don't like the one you're doing your life will be affected, etc.
So, looking for a job is not like going to the grocery store and asking for some really exotic fruit. You would probably have to wait months for your weird fruit, without any message from the store and then be called on short notice that, hey they're here, come immediately or they'll rot or maybe I'll sell them to someone else. Ok, fine, we're just talking of fruits. But a job is another thing.*

While yes, I could agree that any company can proceed as they like on to find new staff, there are things that shouldn't happen. Saying "we'll let you know in 2 weeks" and then not doing it is one of these things. How can a company be deemed serious if it can't even stand up to what it says? I'm pretty sure a reply to every applicant could be doable, and should be done. Out of politeness of course but out of respect to those applying too.
And anyone searching for a job has a life, family, maybe work. Not being able to give at least a week notice before an interview shows that some planning hasn't been done somewhere in the company. One waiting for months and months shouldn't leave the Country for such period of time to get the job? I don't find this normal. The fact that today this form of recruitment has become everyday business still doesn't mean that it is right.

I went a bit beyond the OP's message, maybe this doesn't apply in his case, but I think it applies to many. And I didn't find his message

* I'm aware of the weaknesses of this comparison, you don't buy a job and are not entitled to it, etc, but see what I mean...

Note: I'm all for if you have a problem just keep it to yourself/your relatives/friends but don't go to the internet ranting about it, but I understand that some may find it useful for themselves. If it isn't too harsh, I'm ok with it.

 

[Bromley boy]

While I generally agree with you on the increased selfishness and the generalised it's-his/her/their-fault attitude in our society I'm not sure about the rest.
It seems that you know a lot about the recruiting process and maybe, seen how you talk, have heard all kind of stories about it, from a TOC perspective, I'll give you that.

But in our society a job is still a thing of capital importance to people. Not only because it pays the bills, but because basically without a job you're out, if you have it but it doesn't pay enough you're in trouble, if you don't like the one you're doing your life will be affected, etc.
So, looking for a job is not like going to the grocery store and asking for some really exotic fruit. You would probably have to wait months for your weird fruit, without any message from the store and then be called on short notice that, hey they're here, come immediately or they'll rot or maybe I'll sell them to someone else. Ok, fine, we're just talking of fruits. But a job is another thing.*

While yes, I could agree that any company can proceed as they like on to find new staff, there are things that shouldn't happen. Saying "we'll let you know in 2 weeks" and then not doing it is one of these things. How can a company be deemed serious if it can't even stand up to what it says? I'm pretty sure a reply to every applicant could be doable, and should be done. Out of politeness of course but out of respect to those applying too.
And anyone searching for a job has a life, family, maybe work. Not being able to give at least a week notice before an interview shows that some planning hasn't been done somewhere in the company. One waiting for months and months shouldn't leave the Country for such period of time to get the job? I don't find this normal. The fact that today this form of recruitment has become everyday business still doesn't mean that it is right.

I went a bit beyond the OP's message, maybe this doesn't apply in his case, but I think it applies to many. And I didn't find his message

* I'm aware of the weaknesses of this comparison, you don't buy a job and are not entitled to it, etc, but see what I mean...

Note: I'm all for if you have a problem just keep it to yourself/your relatives/friends but don't go to the internet ranting about it, but I understand that some may find it useful for themselves. If it isn't too harsh, I'm ok with it.

I agree it would be nice if TOCs treated job applicants with kid gloves and gave them detailed feedback. The reality is that they don't and won't. Why would they? There's no commercial incentive for them to do so - they get thousands of applicants per post.

Unfortunately that's just the world we live in. There's absolutely no point in wasting energy fretting about it. Ranting about it online is completely counterproductive and could well damage the OP's future applications!

 

[ComUtoR]

But in our society a job is still a thing of capital importance to people. Not only because it pays the bills, but because basically without a job you're out, if you have it but it doesn't pay enough you're in trouble, if you don't like the one you're doing your life will be affected, etc.

I'm not totally unsympathetic. We've all been there and the job market has very much become a sellers one. I also think that there has been a shift in volume applications in an ever decreasing job market the employer just gets flooded and often overrun. This isn't unique to the railway.

I also think there is an expectation that the employer can and should do x or y. We do live in a modern technical world but someone has to sift every applicant, input their emails, sort and file all success/failures and then send of a generic reply to applicants. Even then you get people moaning about getting a generic no response.

As to me personally, yes I know a bit about the recruitment process and I've been around the job market and back. I've been both sides of the table when it comes to recruitment. The whole process is unfair and quite ruthless on both sides.

One waiting for months and months shouldn't leave the Country for such period of time to get the job? I don't find this normal. The fact that today this form of recruitment has become everyday business still doesn't mean that it is right.

I agree. Get on with your lives but its important to remember that the employer can and will sent out assessment/interview invites when they can book the dates. My issue is then complaining about the wait and in the same breath complaining about last minute notification. I also take umbrage when you complain about someone being on holiday whilst being on holiday yourself. You also have pretty much no automatic right to postpone anything. Many here can attest that the assessment dates are generally absolute. You miss that opportunity then potentially your in for another long wait. Employment is not at your convenience. One of our internals just missed his DMI date as he was on holiday and I assure you even he wasn't given a postponement. Everyone is treated the same, which unfortunately has led to a situation where recruitment tends to be on fixed timescales with zero second chances. One rule for everyone has removed the flexibility for some employers.

Hope that clarifies where I'm coming from.

 

[axlecounter]

I agree it would be nice if TOCs treated job applicants with kid gloves and gave them detailed feedback. The reality is that they don't and won't. Why would they? There's no commercial incentive for them to do so - they get thousands of applicants per post.

Unfortunately that's just the world we live in. There's absolutely no point in wasting energy fretting about it. Ranting about it online is completely counterproductive and could well damage the OP's future applications!

Yes, I essentially agree regarding the OP. I just don't like how it works so I say it out loud. (on an internet forum )

@ComUtoR
Moaners will be moaners and keep on moaning, you surely know that. And another thing that's becoming far too much common in our times is moaning about the smallest things. But I still insist and think that an answer should be a must. "We received, no thanks." Some will still complain, but that's normal, and it's not a reason to leave them without an answer anyway!

You should have the right to postpone any meeting, interviews included. Not at your convenience, of course, but at least a second or third proposal in different times or days of the week should be made. It surely would be feasible. It's just that it's not at the company's convenience...

 

[ComUtoR]

You should have the right to postpone any meeting, interviews included. Not at your convenience, of course, but at least a second or third proposal in different times or days of the week should be made. It surely would be feasible. It's just that it's not at the company's convenience...

From applicant side maybe. From employers no.

Consider that you are employing for a role that needs to be filled by X date. By postponing for a single applicant can push back a deadline and disrupt your entire recruitment.

You are also restricted by your own staff. Say your recruitment team sets up a mass assessment date for day X, you take all the costs etc and then you have an applicant that needs to postpone for a separate day. Who takes that cost and how does that affect your internal staffing availability etc.

If we take the more personal approach to recruitment and give a date to one candidate but they postpone. Do you give that date to someone else affecting their availability/short notice etc and how do you balance fairness between individuals. Candidate A shouldn't, and in today's culture, mustn't get any advantage or preferential treatment over candidate B

Consider mass applications. How many candidates can you allow to postpone ? 1 or 2 ? What about 100 ?

As to an answer to be a 'must' I agree and I would support better recruitment practices. That will come at a cost though. How many applicants will receive a blanket 'no' purely out of the companies convenience and to restrict application numbers etc ? Will it also push up recruitment costs as you then must deal with high volume applications ? Will they employ externals, will the entire process go over to automated replies ? I support it but I also see a negative outcome too.

 

[otomous]

Well, perhaps you're underpaid then!

With respect you've previously stated your job is office/call-centre based. Unless you're committing deliberate fraud on your employer, it's difficult to see how could wind up facing criminal sanctions in that kind of role.

(I worked in professional office-based roles for almost 10 years before joining the railway. These were responsible roles in their own right, but there really is no comparison with 100 stops a day using crap DOO monitors!)

Spot on Bromley Boy. I was a desk jockey before joining the railway and I had ZERO idea of the way the set up there can see a driver stumbling into a courtroom through no fault of his own.