Fruit and vegetable shortage

[dgl]

I think one take from this is Baldrick's turnip is a lot like contracts given to Conservative friends/peers, you pay a lot and get something that is crap and over priced!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

My vegetable bête noir is celery so that can be discontinued.

I quite like celery... and if you don't like it it's relatively easy to avoid, whereas cucumber is everywhere (or was until this shortage).

 

[nw1]

Now we have the great fruit and vegetable shortage, no doubt stoked up by the media with reports that it could "..last for months.."

Always amuses me how people "..take to Twitter.." to complain about the lack of tomatoes on the supermarket shelves, as if that will do anything.

No doubt local Facebook groups will be filled with people asking which supermarket has which fruit and vegetables.

As far as I am concerned, the shortage of broccoli and cabbage can last for ever.

It's very inconvenient for many of us, who might need this food though - and don't drive, so it's a bit of a bind to find it!

It's not new either. It's been going on for at least 12 months at my local supermarket. Like many things, it seems to have become a problem since Covid. I'm not sure why though, given that there are no longer lockdowns or restrictions.

 

[duncanp]

It's very inconvenient for many of us, who might need this food though - and don't drive, so it's a bit of a bind to find it!

It's not new either. It's been going on for at least 12 months at my local supermarket. Like many things, it seems to have become a problem since Covid. I'm not sure why though, given that there are no longer lockdowns or restrictions.

I think part of the reason for the shortages is the penny pinching attitude of British supermarkets in squeezing food suppliers, by trying to get away with paying them as little as possible, and then delaying payment of the suppliers invoice until the last possible moment.

On Radio 2 this lunchtime, they quoted the price of a kilo of red peppers at a wholesalers in the UK at £3.30, whereas in a similar market just outside Paris the price was the equivalent of £5.30, so around 66% higher.

If you were a food producer, who are you going to sell to?

If the positions were reversed, there would be no shortage in the UK and a shortage in France, regardless of the fact that the UK is no longer in the EU.

How many people here would be prepared to absorb a 66% increase in the cost of out of season fruit and vegetables just to ensure security of supply?

 

[yorksrob]

Of all the crises we've faced in recent years, the salad shortage is the one I'm least concerned about.

 

[Techniquest]

Of all the crises we've faced in recent years, the salad shortage is the one I'm least concerned about.

I've got to agree here, I've never been a fan of the stuff! I often wonder how much money cafes, restaurants etc would save by not insisting on side salad with so many menu items. Certainly places like Pizza Hut, with their free salad bar (when getting a pizza on a sit-in meal) could stand to save a fortune by removing it altogether.

Someone asked if I would be accepting of a 66% rise in prices for out of season items. Well I must confess I'm not sure, personally it would depend on what it is. Bananas, oranges and grapes are the three main fruits I buy, as well as apples and mango occasionally. Most of those are imported, and I could certainly change my food intake if it meant only getting in-season food. If it meant using the British countyside more for growing our own crops, then I think that could be a good thing. Indeed, I'm actually seriously considering growing my own potatoes and carrots, although where I'd be able to put said plants I'm not sure yet.

So would I accept a significant price increase for out of season fruit and vegetables in supermarkets? If it meant actual quality, and I won't go into how little quality I see in most shops, and a vast improvement in taste and longevity as a result, then yes, yes I would accept an increase. I would like to see more farmers increasing their crops though too, it's not as if we don't have the land to grow them. It would require a change of culture across the country though, so I'm not holding my breath!

 

[nw1]

Of all the crises we've faced in recent years, the salad shortage is the one I'm least concerned about.

I'd agree it's nothing like as bad as the NHS crisis, the energy bills crisis or Covid, for example, or indeed the B-word (but I won't go there)... but then again I think many of us are just plain fed up of crises full stop!

What annoys me more though is being lectured to by "I'm all right Jack" figures like Therese Coffey. Granted these politicians can't wave a magic wand, but if they can't solve the problem, they should just shut up.

 

[yorksrob]

I'd agree it's nothing like as bad as the NHS crisis, the energy bills crisis or Covid, for example, or indeed the B-word (but I won't go there)... but then again I think many of us are just plain fed up of crises full stop!

What annoys me more though is being lectured to by "I'm all right Jack" figures like Therese Coffey. Granted these politicians can't wave a magic wand, but if they can't solve the problem, they should just shut up.

It would be nice if the current Government would sort out the current rail crisis, but that would be asking too much !

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Feb 2023 ==

I've got to agree here, I've never been a fan of the stuff! I often wonder how much money cafes, restaurants etc would save by not insisting on side salad with so many menu items. Certainly places like Pizza Hut, with their free salad bar (when getting a pizza on a sit-in meal) could stand to save a fortune by removing it altogether.

Someone asked if I would be accepting of a 66% rise in prices for out of season items. Well I must confess I'm not sure, personally it would depend on what it is. Bananas, oranges and grapes are the three main fruits I buy, as well as apples and mango occasionally. Most of those are imported, and I could certainly change my food intake if it meant only getting in-season food. If it meant using the British countyside more for growing our own crops, then I think that could be a good thing. Indeed, I'm actually seriously considering growing my own potatoes and carrots, although where I'd be able to put said plants I'm not sure yet.

So would I accept a significant price increase for out of season fruit and vegetables in supermarkets? If it meant actual quality, and I won't go into how little quality I see in most shops, and a vast improvement in taste and longevity as a result, then yes, yes I would accept an increase. I would like to see more farmers increasing their crops though too, it's not as if we don't have the land to grow them. It would require a change of culture across the country though, so I'm not holding my breath!

Indeed. I quite enjoy a bit of tomato or onion now and again, but I can't be doing with any supposed portion of food described as "leaves". I'm not Flopsy the bunny rabbit.

 

[ChrisC]

I eat salad just about every day in summer when there is plenty of fresh, preferably locally produced, British produce around in the shops. This time of the year I don’t bother as I don’t like all the tasteless imported stuff from places like Spain. I really look forward to seeing the new season British tomatoes, lettuce, celery, spring onions etc arrive in the shops each year. I rarely eat tomatoes during the winter except for occasionally the more expensive ones from the Netherlands, although these seem to have been difficult to get this winter.

I’ve always tried to buy home produced fruit and vegetables and so I generally only eat things when they are in season in this country. There are exceptions with items like bananas, oranges, peaches etc that have to be imported. I only ever eat British strawberries, plums and even apples and pears and so wouldn’t buy them imported from abroad out of season. It’s the same with vegetables. I look forward to the new season when British produced items come into the shops because I haven’t had them all winter. There’s something special for me when the first British new potatoes arrive in the shops in early June as I haven’t been eating the imported ones all winter. I actually love seasonal vegetables and in winter will eat cabbage, carrots, leeks, parsnips etc but I really hate turnips and swedes. I’d much rather use British produced vegetables out of the freezer such as peas and green beans throughout the winter than buy imported items.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Of all the crises we've faced in recent years, the salad shortage is the one I'm least concerned about.

If I was living in the UK I would agree with you. No problem in the USA of course.

 

[Bald Rick]

Personally, I eat salad every day, and often twice a day, and lots of it. I’m not running too low yet, although am down to my last lettuce. I’ll be round to the farm shop round the corner that @ChiefPlanner mentioned, if Sainsburys, M&S, or Tescos have nothing in tomorrow.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Personally, I eat salad every day, and often twice a day, and lots of it.

Me too actually -but mainly because it is so readily available in the USA (at reasonable cost) and I would argue part of the culture. There must be over a dozen salad dressings too in local WalMart.

 

[yorksrob]

If I was living in the UK I would agree with you. No problem in the USA of course.

Indeed - plenty of room for market garden agriculture across the US !

As it happens, the Dutch have perfected such agriculture on a territorially confined basis, so maybe there's potential here as well.

 

[Ediswan]

There must be over a dozen salad dressings too in local WalMart.

Some with confusing names. I once ordered a US restaurant salad with "French Dressing". What arrived bore very little resemblance to what I was expecting.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Personally, I eat salad every day, and often twice a day, and lots of it. I’m not running too low yet, although am down to my last lettuce. I’ll be round to the farm shop round the corner that @ChiefPlanner mentioned, if Sainsburys, M&S, or Tescos have nothing in tomorrow.

Failing that there is the Charter Market in SAC , which was well stocked on Wednesday ....there are some still local market gardening ventures locally , which supply the likes of Sainsbury , and of course very large suppliers in Kent.

 

[TPO]

I eat salad just about every day in summer when there is plenty of fresh, preferably locally produced, British produce around in the shops. This time of the year I don’t bother as I don’t like all the tasteless imported stuff from places like Spain. I really look forward to seeing the new season British tomatoes, lettuce, celery, spring onions etc arrive in the shops each year. I rarely eat tomatoes during the winter except for occasionally the more expensive ones from the Netherlands, although these seem to have been difficult to get this winter.

I’ve always tried to buy home produced fruit and vegetables and so I generally only eat things when they are in season in this country. There are exceptions with items like bananas, oranges, peaches etc that have to be imported. I only ever eat British strawberries, plums and even apples and pears and so wouldn’t buy them imported from abroad out of season. It’s the same with vegetables. I look forward to the new season when British produced items come into the shops because I haven’t had them all winter. There’s something special for me when the first British new potatoes arrive in the shops in early June as I haven’t been eating the imported ones all winter. I actually love seasonal vegetables and in winter will eat cabbage, carrots, leeks, parsnips etc but I really hate turnips and swedes. I’d much rather use British produced vegetables out of the freezer such as peas and green beans throughout the winter than buy imported items.

You can grow some very tasty Oriental greens through most of the winter, Mizuna and such like. In the worst of the weather they may need a cloche but they are in general very hardy cut-and-come-again crops. They tend to bolt in summer so are very much a "greens" crop for the cooler seasons- sown in September they can stand throughout the winter. Also things like Miners Lettuce will grow in colder seasons with a bit of protection.

Part of the issue is that the range of greens (and other veg) in supermarkets is quite restricted to what we're "used to."

TPO

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Indeed - plenty of room for market garden agriculture across the US !

As it happens, the Dutch have perfected such agriculture on a territorially confined basis, so maybe there's potential here as well.

Seeing as we're talking about problems with supply of fresh fruit and veg, I'd not be so keen to praise Dutch agricultural policy... I remember those protests a few months back!

 

[yorksrob]

Seeing as we're talking about problems with supply of fresh fruit and veg, I'd not be so keen to praise Dutch agricultural policy... I remember those protests a few months back!

I don't actually - what were they about ?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I don't actually - what were they about ?

I can't recall the exact details, but it was some sort of "net zero" inspired policy that was affecting farmers income and their ability to produce in volume. IIRC it related to emissions and use of things like combine harvesters.
There was also an attempt to brand the protesting farmers as being "far right", which is the usual tactic of those who have lost the argument.

 

[yorksrob]

Ah well, I can't imagine much modern arable farming without a combine harvester !

 

[TPO]

Ah well, I can't imagine much modern arable farming without a combine harvester !

Or chemical fertilizers made from nitrogen and methane via the conversion of methane to hydrogen then the production of ammonia from hydrogen and nitrogen using the Haber process (very energy intensive). Modern grain farms are highly efficient- satellite controlled machinery- and are big-field monocultures.

And of course the Dutch have big glasshouses which need heat/light in winter.

The gas shortage in Europe has effected those things, be interesting to see how this develops and what the impact of input prices is on how much is planted this year.......

TPO

 

[yorksrob]

Or chemical fertilizers made from nitrogen and methane via the conversion of methane to hydrogen then the production of ammonia from hydrogen and nitrogen using the Haber process (very energy intensive). Modern grain farms are highly efficient- satellite controlled machinery- and are big-field monocultures.

And of course the Dutch have big glasshouses which need heat/light in winter.

The gas shortage in Europe has effected those things, be interesting to see how this develops and what the impact of input prices is on how much is planted this year.......

TPO

If only we could somehow harness the copious amounts of methane I seem to produce these days !

 

[Lloyds siding]

If only we could somehow harness the copious amounts of methane I seem to produce these days !

You really are turning into an old f**t then?!

 

[yorksrob]

You really are turning into an old f**t then?!

"turning into" !

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

I eat salad just about every day in summer when there is plenty of fresh, preferably locally produced, British produce around in the shops. This time of the year I don’t bother as I don’t like all the tasteless imported stuff from places like Spain. I really look forward to seeing the new season British tomatoes, lettuce, celery, spring onions etc arrive in the shops each year. I rarely eat tomatoes during the winter except for occasionally the more expensive ones from the Netherlands, although these seem to have been difficult to get this winter.

I’ve always tried to buy home produced fruit and vegetables and so I generally only eat things when they are in season in this country. There are exceptions with items like bananas, oranges, peaches etc that have to be imported. I only ever eat British strawberries, plums and even apples and pears and so wouldn’t buy them imported from abroad out of season. It’s the same with vegetables. I look forward to the new season when British produced items come into the shops because I haven’t had them all winter. There’s something special for me when the first British new potatoes arrive in the shops in early June as I haven’t been eating the imported ones all winter. I actually love seasonal vegetables and in winter will eat cabbage, carrots, leeks, parsnips etc but I really hate turnips and swedes. I’d much rather use British produced vegetables out of the freezer such as peas and green beans throughout the winter than buy imported items.

Absolutely! (sorry to hear that you don't like swede and turnips tho')
I do buy some imported stuff in winter if the mood takes me, but really good winter salads can easily be made with root vegetables...carrots, beetroots, turnips (never thought I would be in agreement with Therese Coffey!) etc

 

[yorksrob]

I do love mashed swede with gravy. With mint source and horseradish source. Ooh, yes please.

 

[brad465]

If this country's housing provision/layout was much better, combined with education and promotion of home growing, like there was in the war, this would probably make a difference somewhat (though won't be a silver bullet). Not only are the latter things not prevalent, but we seem to build houses that don't have gardens setup to assist this (or in the case of flats, no garden, although a balcony could do a small amount), while allotments can be in high demand. Property developers and large supermarket chains clearly want to ensure their profits stay up, so are a barrier to alleviating food security.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Indeed - plenty of room for market garden agriculture across the US !

Yet surprisingly the largest concentration of salad vegetable production is in southeastern Arizona! It's impressive how irrigation can allow a nominally arid region to be so productive.

The gas shortage in Europe has effected those things, be interesting to see how this develops and what the impact of input prices is on how much is planted this year.......

The effects are already being reported in this country. Salad producers in the Lea Valley giving up, likewise apple growers in Kent, high energy prices being the final straw in both cases. While it's not clear that any of this current shortage can be attributed to Brexit it's a little ironic that in the early years of the EEC the prime focus was on maintaining stability of food supplies and pricing: while the latter day EU is a somewhat different organisation nevertheless since leaving it this country has had a succession of short-term shortages of various foodstuffs..

 

[Magdalia]

I was awake early this morning and listened to Farming Today on Radio 4, which was a Salad Shortages Special. The panel included a grower, a wholesaler, a journalist and an academic, but nobody from the government or the retailers. Both of these instead provided statements asserting the resilience of the UK supply chain which were totally detached from the reality of the empty shelves in the supermarkets.

What was clear from the discussion is that UK supply will be much lower this year because of high energy costs and lack of workforce to harvest crops that need to be hand picked.

And the underlying message was that the penny still hasn't dropped with the supermarkets that if they don't pay prices that cover producers' costs then they won't get supplied. The difficulty is that supermarkets will carry on like this unless their customers shop elsewhere. With three exceptions (bananas, mushrooms and lettuce) I always buy fresh produce from greengrocers and market traders not supermarkets. I haven't seen any empty shelves there.

 

[BananaRepublic]

High energy costs have definitely had an impact on greenhouse production of fruit and veg.
Last year, the industry asked for support towards the big increase in commercial energy bills, but were turned down.
The "glass" sector have consequently reduced the amount of plants they're growing, as the heating costs would make it uneconomic to do so.

Now the government is paying farmers, generous subsidies to not grow crops for consumption, under a scheme where they want them to grow crops to be churned into the soil as compost, to increase the quality of the soil.
This was mentioned in the latest YouTube edition of Harry's Farm.

a

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Feb 2023 ==

......I'd not be so keen to praise Dutch agricultural policy... I remember those protests a few months back!

I don't actually - what were they about ?

I can't recall the exact details, but it was some sort of "net zero" inspired policy that was affecting farmers income and their ability to produce in volume. IIRC it related to emissions and use of things like combine harvesters.
There was also an attempt to brand the protesting farmers as being "far right", which is the usual tactic of those who have lost the argument.

There's huge trouble in the Netherlands over the plans to force farms to close and reduce agricultural production.

Dutch announce forced buyout of farms to cut emissions - Farmers Weekly

The Dutch government is planning to buy up and shut down almost 3,000 farms in a bid to meet tough EU greenhouse gas emissions targets. The targets

www.fwi.co.uk

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Feb 2023 ==

There's a very large M&S food hall near us.
I popped in there early this morning.
The fruit and vegetable areas were fully stocked as always.
No problem getting salad items or tomatoes.
I also called in at our local greengrocers yesterday, to buy a dozen eggs and some other items. All readily available.