Friday late start - even without Network Rail staff on strike.

[Peterthegreat]

Throughout the strikes, EMR seem to have been a stand out TOC in terms of running basic services, post strike recovery etc.

Indeed. The question needs to be asked if EMR can do it why can't others?

 

[LAX54]

But that was with signal boxes closed. I cannot see why most trains should not be able to operate from 07.00 onwards. The first stopping train South from Leeds on the Hallam is after 09.30.

I am guessing train prep, which is not a 5 mins job, and possibly shunting of units, whilst NR staff are all at work, there will be nobody to move the units / trains arouind the depot for cleaning, maintainance etc

 

[Surreytraveller]

As someone who struck several times in the early 1980s (and who was a very low level NUR rep.) I remember that the attitude then was to try and run as good a service as possible. From early evening of the day before the strike management and Control would be shuffling their cards so that as much as possible was in the right places to allow a near normal start on the day after the strike. Staff, even the most militant (like me), accepted that was part of the job as long as they didn’t ask us to work on the strike day, go outside our job description or do something like work special overtime. There were still cancellations, but mostly of the very early trains in the urban areas: in many places things just started up like a normal weekday after a weekend or bank holiday.

There's no longer all the staff on the ground these days - train crew supervisors, station supervisors and suchlike that would do all the micro-managing. Control cannot do all the micro-managing

 

[Craig1122]

Train planning is almost on its knees in many TOCs and at Network Rail. Low pay, little progression within the discipline, repeated relocations by Network Rail, limited use of automation, growing workload, unrealistic expectations from managers... not conducive to recruitment or retention in the numbers necessary.

I considered TOC train planning some years ago. Let's just say the package wasn't particularly attractive then & I decided not to apply. Things I've heard since are not good. It's a very under appreciated discipline and chickens are coming home to roost.

 

[43066]

I considered TOC train planning some years ago. Let's just say the package wasn't particularly attractive then & I decided not to apply. Things I've heard since are not good. It's a very under appreciated discipline and chickens are coming home to roost.

The joke (perhaps unkindly) amongst traincrew is along the lines of: “if we made as many mistakes in our jobs as planning do, we would all be down the road”.

I will also admit, until what I’ve read about train planning on here, I assumed it was a lot more automated/computerised than it is. It’s ironic for a train driver to say that, because that’s the kind of ignorance we’re normally on the receiving end of, but there we go

Then again the planning grade is clearly understaffed and, in typical railway fashion, lacking in technology. Paying low salaries will only perpetuate these problems, of course.

 

[WAB]

The joke (perhaps unkindly) amongst traincrew is along the lines of: “if we made as many mistakes in our jobs as planning do, we would all be down the road”.

Don't worry, train planners say the same about your mob

I will also admit, until what I’ve read about train planning on here, I assumed it was a lot more automated/computerised than it is. It’s ironic for a train driver to say that, because that’s the kind of ignorance we’re normally on the receiving end of, but there we go

It requires a certain mind and a great deal of skill, both of which are difficult to get at the rate offered. Certain TOCs will offer university students £25k + PRIV travel to take a year off on placement in their train planning team - quite a tempting offer. Still, there are limited opportunities for progression within train planning or increases in pay from there so you end up with churn as people use it as a stepping stone to elsewhere. As you said, automation isn't really there yet when it really should be, but it is enough of a prospect to make people think twice about staying too long in train planning.

As usual on the railways, no-one is really up for fixing it.

 

[D1537]

A question, if anyone can answer it - WMT/LNWR/Avanti are still showing last trains tonight running (i.e. late trains from BHM to COV). Will this actually be the case? Going out in Brum tonight and don't want to be stranded when everything stops running at 9pm!

Edit: Ah, it's to do with Network Rail not striking isn't it? Signallers not going off duty at midnight etc.

 

[dk1]

How odd. Apart from a handful of cancellations on the West, a full timetable is operating here in East Anglia.

 

[yorksrob]

Fortunately on this occasion for me, Bertie the bus came to the rescue (and not for the first time in this dispute).

I was sat at my desk around an hour and a half before the first train is due to leave my local station.

 

[Bantamzen]

Northern off to a flyer this morning, the first Ilkley-Bradford (luckily I chose to walk to Shipley as it is a nice morning) & Bradford-Skipton canned, even the first Bradford-Leeds managed to limp out late and slow down the Skipton-Leeds running right behind.

 

[ChrisC]

Indeed. The question needs to be asked if EMR can do it why can't others?

EMR have been running a near normal service on all routes in and out of Nottingham this morning from just after 5am. The first Northern train to Leeds is only just departing now at 0917 and even worse no XC trains until the 1107 to Cardiff.

 

[Peterthegreat]

EMR have been running a near normal service on all routes in and out of Nottingham this morning from just after 5am. The first Northern train to Leeds is only just departing now at 0917 and even worse no XC trains until the 1107 to Cardiff.

Well done to EMR. It shows if you have a well resourced, enthusiastic and able train planning team what can be done!

 

[The Planner]

Train planning is almost on its knees in many TOCs and at Network Rail. Low pay, little progression within the discipline, repeated relocations by Network Rail, limited use of automation, growing workload, unrealistic expectations from managers... not conducive to recruitment or retention in the numbers necessary.

Would hardly say one relocation in the last 13 years is a lot by NR, and having gone through that knowing the "problems" that it caused. Bringing in a new planning system at the same time being the icing on the cake.

 

[DarloRich]

Still, there are limited opportunities for progression within train planning or increases in pay from there so you end up with churn as people use it as a stepping stone to elsewhere.

Looking from the outside that is one of the main issues with the planning area. It is hard to retain people and you can lose them having spent considerable time and effort getting them up to the required skill level.

 

[HSTEd]

As you said, automation isn't really there yet when it really should be, but it is enough of a prospect to make people think twice about staying too long in train planning.

Someone needs to give someone a billion pounds, ten years and a supercomputer to attempt a brute force solution!

I can't imagine staffing issues on the railway are going to get any easier and this is just going to get worse and worse.....

 

[YorksLad12]

Everything seemed to be delayed coming out of Neville Hill this morning. I'd just missed the 0837 semi-fast, thought about the 0848 semi-slow but it was late pulling in and 35-ish minutes late departing (as was the 0804 semi-fast, around 15 minutes down says RTT). The 0911 would have reached Sheffield earlier anyway, and earlier than the 0909 that I let go, but that was almost 30 minutes late because of "delays at the depot".

Walked back home and am working from here instead. Lesson learned for the 31st.

 

[Craig1122]

How odd. Apart from a handful of cancellations on the West, a full timetable is operating here in East Anglia.

Modern Railways ran a feature a few months back about how GA have invested in their control and short term planning, both people & technology. It does seem to have had positive results.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Mar 2023 ==

Then again the planning grade is clearly understaffed and, in typical railway fashion, lacking in technology. Paying low salaries will only perpetuate these problems, of course.

At the time I was working on stations. Although train planning was one pay band higher the loss of shift allowance, overtime etc would have meant a big cut in take home pay. So in that situation it isn't even an attractive progression option for many people already in the business.

At the risk of heading off topic this is an issue for a lot of railway jobs, not just planning. It leads to a lot of wasted talent as people either stay where they are when they're capable of more, or only get attracted to driver/guard.

 

[Bald Rick]

Train planning is almost on its knees in many TOCs and at Network Rail. Low pay, little progression within the discipline, repeated relocations by Network Rail

When was the last relocation of NR train planning staff?

And how many of those now working in train planning were actually affected?

 

[The Planner]

When was the last relocation of NR train planning staff?

And how many of those now working in train planning were actually affected?

I can count them on the fingers of two hands I think. Possibly a few toes.

 

[father_jack]

The first train from where I work to the capital was 2 hours 27 minutes later than normal today.

It left 34 late, after the second train of the "day". The driver taxi to the depot for the "first" was not booked.

The railway doesn't need strikes to be a shambles.

 

[A Challenge]

The railway doesn't need strikes to be a shambles.

I don't disagree with this, but in this case the fact that it was an inter-strike day was why it so bad

 

[Trainfan2019]

Regarding EMR and post strike day / strike day service, there's a first ever strike day service on the Crewe route. However, there's a catch...

2 class 170s left Crewe as ECS early this morning, normal route and terminated at Uttoxeter. From Uttoxeter there is an hourly strike day service to Nottingham and back until late tonight.

How come Nottingham to Uttoxeter is served but not Crewe to Uttoxeter? Bearing in mind the empty stock started at Crewe this morning?

 

[dk1]

Regarding EMR and post strike day / strike day service, there's a first ever strike day service on the Crewe route. However, there's a catch...

2 class 170s left Crewe as ECS early this morning, normal route and terminated at Uttoxeter. From Uttoxeter there is an hourly strike day service to Nottingham and back until late tonight.

How come Nottingham to Uttoxeter is served but not Crewe to Uttoxeter? Bearing in mind the empty stock started at Crewe this morning?

It’s the Midlands Grand National at Uttoxeter Race Course today.

 

[43055]

Regarding EMR and post strike day / strike day service, there's a first ever strike day service on the Crewe route. However, there's a catch...

2 class 170s left Crewe as ECS early this morning, normal route and terminated at Uttoxeter. From Uttoxeter there is an hourly strike day service to Nottingham and back until late tonight.

How come Nottingham to Uttoxeter is served but not Crewe to Uttoxeter? Bearing in mind the empty stock started at Crewe this morning?

It was the Midland Grand National at Uttoxeter yesterday. In regards to not going beyond Uttoxeter my first thought is that Stoke was closed as per other strike days but then I see Cross County was stopping.

Is good that EMR put these on including 2 Meridian's it was sad to see lots of spare seats on these services when normally most services will be full and standing in previous years.

 

[A Challenge]

Is good that EMR put these on including 2 Meridian's it was sad to see lots of spare seats on these services when normally most services will be full and standing in previous years.

It's all very well running a service on the branch, but with a limited mainline service, no-one's driving to Derby to get the train to Uttoxeter, you'd just drive to Uttoxeter

 

[yorksrob]

I was all set to use EMR on Saturday for a football match and had spent some time planning my route there and back as the journey planners were showing a couple of last options back at 17:30 (Sheffield then a bus or Grantham then open access).

Come Saturday morning, I checked the timetables and these last options had receded back to 16:30, rendering them useless.

Whilst I understand that strike timetables are lousy generally, the late change was disappointing.

 

[LordCreed]

The joke (perhaps unkindly) amongst traincrew is along the lines of: “if we made as many mistakes in our jobs as planning do, we would all be down the road”.

The workload is such that it's unlikely a crew diagram is worked on for more than a minute or two, with no chance to go back and check for errors (such checks used to be a thing, but were the first to go when Covid vastly increased the workload, further increased by strikes).