Friday late start - even without Network Rail staff on strike.

[yorksrob]

I note that on my local line, we are still to have a late start tomorrow, even though NR, including signallers, are not on strike today.

My local station normally has services from just before 7:00 onwards, however on strike days the first train is 8:30. This is typically full and standing at my stop to the extent that passengers are left behind. With the availability of NR resources,

I would have hoped that some effort would have been made to run a more useful service. I see that there are also various random trains missing on Friday in the day as well, for example the 12:18 Leeds to Morecambe seems to have been erased from existence for no apparent reason.

I'd be interested to know what justification (if any) there is for this state of affairs.

 

[Mojo]

I would imagine the primary issue would be lack of night turn staff who would still be on strike as they would be supposed to be booking on before midnight. For Tocs these would be staff doing jobs like shunting trains in depots and unlocking major stations, there will also be Tocs with night turn drivers and guards so trains will not be in position.

 

[yorksrob]

It would be interesting to know how many of the above apply to the Hallam line.

One thing I note is that after the very first of these strikes they were able to run the train half an hour before, however this has never been repeated.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

I suppose we should be pathetically grateful that Northern are running trains at all on "between strike" days. From what I remember of December's strikes they simply didn't bother to run on "between strike" days at all. When I asked them on Twitter why not I got the reply "The strike action on either side of this date will cause too much disruption for us to be able to run our regular timetables. "

 

[Peterthegreat]

I suppose we should be pathetically grateful that Northern are running trains at all on "between strike" days. From what I remember of December's strikes they simply didn't bother to run on "between strike" days at all. When I asked them on Twitter why not I got the reply "The strike action on either side of this date will cause too much disruption for us to be able to run our regular timetables. "

Totally agree. Northern don't have a "can do" attitude like some TOCs do. Tomorrow EMR are running trains 9 trains at Sheffield before Northern even start!

 

[Adam0984]

It would be interesting to know how many of the above apply to the Hallam line.

One thing I note is that after the very first of these strikes they were able to run the train half an hour before, however this has never been repeated.

The first set of day after strike timetables caused absolute chaos with crew in taxis criss crossing the northern network to pick up their back workings and it just didn't work

 

[Peterthegreat]

The first set of day after strike timetables caused absolute chaos with crew in taxis criss crossing the northern network to pick up their back workings and it just didn't work

But that was with signal boxes closed. I cannot see why most trains should not be able to operate from 07.00 onwards. The first stopping train South from Leeds on the Hallam is after 09.30.

 

[Bantamzen]

I note that on my local line, we are still to have a late start tomorrow, even though NR, including signallers, are not on strike today.

My local station normally has services from just before 7:00 onwards, however on strike days the first train is 8:30. This is typically full and standing at my stop to the extent that passengers are left behind. With the availability of NR resources,

I would have hoped that some effort would have been made to run a more useful service. I see that there are also various random trains missing on Friday in the day as well, for example the 12:18 Leeds to Morecambe seems to have been erased from existence for no apparent reason.

I'd be interested to know what justification (if any) there is for this state of affairs.

Its the same in my neck of the woods, albeit with slightly earlier starts. The first services Leeds-bound out of Shipley are at 07:37 & 07:44 so could get cosy. I usually try to avoid these days, but I need to be in the office at some point so am going to risk the 07:37, although I'll have to walk or get the bus there as the first service down from Ilkley doesn't arrive until 07:44.

 

[Adam0984]

Its a combination of the timetable had being submitted with freight in daytime paths and reduced services. And it looks they've just stuck to what the original traincrew diagram would be instead of sending (in the above example of the Hallam line) a driver and conductor in a taxi from Sheffield to Leeds to work the 0733 and 0833 back to Sheffield and same in reverse Leeds crew going down by road to bring Leeds bound trains

 

[87015]

I note that on my local line, we are still to have a late start tomorrow, even though NR, including signallers, are not on strike today.

My local station normally has services from just before 7:00 onwards, however on strike days the first train is 8:30. This is typically full and standing at my stop to the extent that passengers are left behind. With the availability of NR resources,

I would have hoped that some effort would have been made to run a more useful service. I see that there are also various random trains missing on Friday in the day as well, for example the 12:18 Leeds to Morecambe seems to have been erased from existence for no apparent reason.

I'd be interested to know what justification (if any) there is for this state of affairs.

Head of Service Planning on Northern Vacancy website, apply and go nuts, it even says lead of contingency emergency timetables for you to sort!

 

[Peterthegreat]

Head of Service Planning on Northern Vacancy website, apply and go nuts, it even says lead of contingency emergency timetables for you to sort!

Joking apart that could be one of the reasons Northern don't seem to be able to be more proactive. If the "boss" is absent (and possibly others) then they may struggle to change things compared to some other TOCs

 

[tpfx89]

Not sure if this has been covered upthread but units being out of position for start of service probably has somewhat of an impact as well. Trains expected at x depot didn't get there because their service didn't run on the strike day

 

[Deepgreen]

It needs to be realised tht the TOCs are there, primarily, to make money for their shareholders. Their second (at best) priority is to run trains, and if there is any get-out option in that regard it will be seized upon. This is the 'passengers-first' regime that privatisation has delivered...

 

[tpfx89]

It needs to be realised tht the TOCs are there, primarily, to make money for their shareholders. Their second (at best) priority is to run trains, and if there is any get-out option in that regard it will be seized upon. This is the 'passengers-first' regime that privatisation has delivered...

Well, that's a polarised attitude...

 

[jamiearmley]

Well, that's a polarised attitude...

I don't disagree, however, it's certainly what it feels like on the ground. I spend a lot of my working day trying to find ways to limit the effect that this 'operational convenience first, passengers last' attitude has on the people who are sat on my train, actually trying to use the "service".

 

[yorksrob]

The first set of day after strike timetables caused absolute chaos with crew in taxis criss crossing the northern network to pick up their back workings and it just didn't work

Head of Service Planning on Northern Vacancy website, apply and go nuts, it even says lead of contingency emergency timetables for you to sort!

A lack of planning staff could be a reason for the current malaise.

That said, there was a TOC strike where NR weren't on strike earlier this year and I'm pretty sure a normal timetable operated the day after because I used it to get to work. Pity they couldn't replicate this.

 

[Mag_seven]

It needs to be realised tht the TOCs are there, primarily, to make money for their shareholders. Their second (at best) priority is to run trains, and if there is any get-out option in that regard it will be seized upon. This is the 'passengers-first' regime that privatisation has delivered...

I thought that Northern (the TOC under discussion here) was state owned?

 

[Gloster]

As someone who struck several times in the early 1980s (and who was a very low level NUR rep.) I remember that the attitude then was to try and run as good a service as possible. From early evening of the day before the strike management and Control would be shuffling their cards so that as much as possible was in the right places to allow a near normal start on the day after the strike. Staff, even the most militant (like me), accepted that was part of the job as long as they didn’t ask us to work on the strike day, go outside our job description or do something like work special overtime. There were still cancellations, but mostly of the very early trains in the urban areas: in many places things just started up like a normal weekday after a weekend or bank holiday.

 

[davetheguard]

GWR don't appear to be running any trains this morning to Barnstaple/Okehampton according to Realtime trains & Tiger, but are according to National Rail Enquiries - but with a yellow "!" warning triangle.

Both lines are signalled by the box at Crediton fringing with Exeter panel, & the Network Rail dispute is suspended; so must be down to something at GWR??

 

[Deepgreen]

I thought that Northern (the TOC under discussion here) was state owned?

Apologies - I was generalising beyond just that example. However, the same principle has become so entrenched now that it seems to be the prevailing attitude, no matter who 'owns' the TOC. The old premise of service first has all-but died out.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Not sure if this has been covered upthread but units being out of position for start of service probably has somewhat of an impact as well. Trains expected at x depot didn't get there because their service didn't run on the strike day

So noted. However, where do such trains end up being stabled at the end of the day immediately before a strike?

 

[Watershed]

In most cases it's simply down to there not having been enough notice of the NR strike being cancelled to reinstate a 'normal' timetable. Planning teams at NR and most TOCs are overstretched to varying degrees and so the level of service provided by a TOC will largely depend on how much slack and goodwill is available to start again from scratch.

Whilst there are a couple of situations where outstabling etc. make a difference, in most cases that has absolutely nothing to do with it and is just the usual throwaway remark that TOCs make to try and justify the outcome of under-resourcing their planning teams...

 

[43096]

It needs to be realised tht the TOCs are there, primarily, to make money for their shareholders. Their second (at best) priority is to run trains, and if there is any get-out option in that regard it will be seized upon. This is the 'passengers-first' regime that privatisation has delivered...

Making money for shareholders is usually accompanied by providing services to customers, otherwise you don’t have money coming in. So it’s not a privatisation issue as such, more around the railway and the associated Government department being utterly, utterly dysfunctional.

 

[endofthetunnel]

GWR don't appear to be running any trains this morning to Barnstaple/Okehampton according to Realtime trains & Tiger, but are according to National Rail Enquiries - but with a yellow "!" warning triangle.

Both lines are signalled by the box at Crediton fringing with Exeter panel, & the Network Rail dispute is suspended; so must be down to something at GWR??

Well, that'll be the GWR staff being on strike!

 

[ainsworth74]

A lack of planning staff could be a reason for the current malaise.

And possibly those that are in place are somewhat exhausted at this point. They've been getting broadside after broadside quite a while now in terms of having to re-plan services for nearly three years now with the odd respite in the middle

 

[yorksrob]

And possibly those that are in place are somewhat exhausted at this point. They've been getting broadside after broadside quite a while now in terms of having to re-plan services for nearly three years now with the odd respite in the middle

Five years for Northern, bearing in mind the previous dispute.

That said, the day after the previous TOC only strike would have been a better template.

 

[YorksLad12]

I'm in a similar position. I'd normally get the 0811 XC from Leeds to Sheffield. Last time I looked that service doesn't exist tomorrow - not even in cancelled form. My choices are the 0748 semi-slow via Rotherham or the 0804 semi-fast via Barnsley, which will be crammed as the 0738 won't be running. The 0838 and subsequent will be running, and the 0911 XC will start from Leeds.

All of these changes, while unhelpful, make some sort of sense. I just wish they were communicated better - I bet people will turn up for the 0811, find out it's missing and catch the 0804 (at least it's due off from P15 tomorrow, the one the XC train is normally on)... which is why I'm avoiding it.

 

[WAB]

A lack of planning staff could be a reason for the current malaise.

Train planning is almost on its knees in many TOCs and at Network Rail. Low pay, little progression within the discipline, repeated relocations by Network Rail, limited use of automation, growing workload, unrealistic expectations from managers... not conducive to recruitment or retention in the numbers necessary.

 

[yorksrob]

Totally agree. Northern don't have a "can do" attitude like some TOCs do. Tomorrow EMR are running trains 9 trains at Sheffield before Northern even start!

Throughout the strikes, EMR seem to have been a stand out TOC in terms of running basic services, post strike recovery etc.

 

[ComUtoR]

How many Guards and Platform staff are on strike ?