Frequently used loops situated between stations

[Shimbleshanks]

I vaguely remember a loop in the Tile Hill area between Coventry and Birmingham International where a local train would occasionally recess to allow an intercity to pass. But that was in the 1980s.

 

[Zomboid]

I know in the past there has been a booked Chiltern service which goes into the loop heading towards Leamington Spa to allow a XC to pass it.

I was on one such Chiltern train years ago.

 

[The Planner]

I vaguely remember a loop in the Tile Hill area between Coventry and Birmingham International where a local train would occasionally recess to allow an intercity to pass. But that was in the 1980s.

Tile Hill loop went 25 odd years ago.

 

[Bald Rick]

I vaguely remember a loop in the Tile Hill area between Coventry and Birmingham International where a local train would occasionally recess to allow an intercity to pass. But that was in the 1980s.

And 90s! I once ended up in it in 1993.

 

[CHAPS2034]

Later, when working at Todmorden and Hebden Bridge, I recall there was at least one occasion where a passenger train from Manchester Victoria was looped at Brewery Junction to allow another to pass - I was so surprised I rang Control to check, but can't recall the exact circumstances.

Earlier this year I was travelling from Manchester Victoria to Rochdale. The next Rochdale should have been a fast, but it was running late, so the next Rochdale departure at Vic was the all-shacks stopper. We set off, but were then were looped and held at Brewery Junction for about five minutes to let the late-running express past. Sensible regulation, as the all shacks terminates in the bay at Rochdale and has quite a long layover.

So I guess it does happen from time to time.

 

[SE%Traveller]

Kent House has been used in the up direction if a fast train is late and the stopper has got out infront of it at Shortlands Jct as a result. To be an effective passing loop though, ideally it would also encompass Penge East, but the space won't exist to extend it there.

The down service is timed reasonably well, taking 23 minutes between Victoria and Bromley South, including the Denmark Hill call, however the up service is the poorly pathed one, taking 30 minutes. The problem is this service cannot run any later as a fast Chatham mainline service almost catches it up in the Bromley area (about 4 minutes difference at Bromley South), and presumably the Thameslink service can't run any earlier due to the strict core timetable. I suspect in the up direction any passengers from St Mary Cray-Sole St inclusive wanting Victoria get off at Bromley South and wait on the same platform, the train behind gets their first.

Or you can run the Thameslink stopper 5 minutes later have the Gillingham Service race to Denmark Hill in 12 rather than 20 mins. The Stopper then take over the Luton route form the Rainham one. They prove the point each Sunday when this is pretty much what they run (well Sevenoaks terminates at Blackfriars but at xx.04 xx.34, same time as the Rainham Luton Trains)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Nov 2025 ==

've always thought the ideal situation would be for the DMK semi-fast and the TL service to depart BMS at the same time like the Victoria services do, but I had not considered the very good points you make about catching up. What really is the purpose of this service then, can I ask? Why does it need to run via Denmark Hill?

the Orpington to Luton diid depart at the same time as the Ashford to Blackfriars Service in 2019 (being run instead of the ill-fated Maidstone Cambridge) both departing. Interestingly that put it arriving at Blackfriars 15 mins ahead of the Orpington one leaving same time xx.04; xx19 respectively....

 

[Railcar]

How's this for a 'get out of trouble' loop around South London that never happened ?

Last week, the Epsom to London Bridge semi-fast that I boarded at Wallington was held outside Gloucesteer Road Junction. The driver told us that a points failure at Norwood Junction meant that our next stop would be Selhurst (and then fast to London bridge via the Streathams, the Dulwiches and the Peckhams, I guessed).

However, after a long wait, the Orange Army must have used their Birmingham Screwdrivers at the right spot and the train became fast to LBG via Norwood Junction.

 

[Western 52]

Tremains loop at Bridgend gets used by passenger trains now and again. I was on a Sprinter that used the loop for an IET to overtake a year or so ago. I think the up loop at Pencoed also sees occasional passenger use.

I've not seen the loops at Stormy or Miskin used by passenger trains. Not sure if they can use them.

 

[Dren Ahmeti]

The loops along the B&H tend to get used a fair amount.
Saw the (Down) Towney loop get used the other day to allow a very late stopper to get overtaken.

 

[6Gman]

Chelford loop, almost no scheduled services, used for the purpose you describe, less often then four times a day though. Mainly down services, and often the stopper uses the Sandbach back platform instead.

I've known it used more than once in the Up direction usually to let the xx30 TfW overtake a late-running Northern local. Happened on two consecutive occasions recently when I was on the 1630 Up TfW.

 

[zwk500]

There was a programme some years ago to upgrade several loops on the Western Region to passenger standards and I think the Yatton ones are examples. They were previously categorised as goods only and in 1960s/70s signalling schemes usually didn't have compliant overlap locking arrangements for passenger trains entering, and many had point motors for their exit traps without facing point lock functionality. Practice on modern schemes is to signal goods lines to the same standards as passenger lines so diversions can more easily take place. In the old days when a goods loop was used for a passenger train, special arrangement had to be made, particularly for personel to clip and padlock any points that lacked a FPL.

Not just in the old days! Still needs to happen if goods loops have points without facing locks. Of course, some goods loops have traps or shorter than acceptable overlaps but point motors with FPLs included so don't need clipping to use for passenger trains (still need authority though).

Presumably this also makes railtours, which are quite regularly put into passing loops in the middle of nowhere, much easier to path.

Yes and No. Railtours can seek Goods Line Authority to be booked to use Goods Loops, although as @MarkyT mentions, some goods loops need more attention than others to be deemed safe for passenger use.

 

[fat_boy_pete]

Two loops on the GEML I have personally sat on a train looped by an overtaking train are Ingatestone down loop and the Chelmsford down loop. The former was disruption driven and the latter saw both disruption and timetabled use, but am unclear post COVID timetable if it's still scheduled for use. Both just outside stations. Interestingly, no up loops after Colchester apart from Witham until Beaulieu Park opened recently, although the latter is of course a new bidirectional station loop.

 

[Kite159]

.

Two loops on the GEML I have personally sat on a train looped by an overtaking train are Ingatestone down loop and the Chelmsford down loop. The former was disruption driven and the latter saw both disruption and timetabled use, but am unclear post COVID timetable if it's still scheduled for use. Both just outside stations. Interestingly, no up loops after Colchester apart from Witham until Beaulieu Park opened recently, although the latter is of course a new bidirectional station loop.

I'm sure in the pre Covid timetable both down loops had at least one booked use during the evening peak time.

Up loop wise there is Shenfield where a train can get looped by a late running fast train if required (ie the stopper from the Chelmsford direction going into P1 with the fast using P2)

 

[fat_boy_pete]

.


Up loop wise there is Shenfield where a train can get looped by a late running fast train if required (ie the stopper from the Chelmsford direction going into P1 with the fast using P2)

Not sure the signaller would bother as most trains from the Chelmsford direction would have only Stratford and one an hour Romford stops to slow down a non-stop to Liverpool Street. Not sure if the platform 1 loop would be long enough for a freight.

 

[ABB125]

When my mum was commuting to Bristol for a few months in 2018, she said it was reasonably common for the Bristol-Worcester GWR stopper she was on to "stop in the middle of nowhere" in the evening and wait for another train to go past. This would presumably be the GWR being put into Charfield loop (or, much less likely given the proximity to Gloucester, Haresfield loop) to allow a late running XC service to overtake.
No idea if this still happens regularly or not

 

[Cricketer8for9]

No one’s yet mentioned what used to be known as the empty carriage line out of the Sussex side of London Victoria. Used to allow simultaneous departures from the high numbered platforms (send one via the loop, one via the down fast). For example xx:05 from 15 is a few mins late; xx:08 sent via the ECS line with a lower speed and may not even have to stop at Battersea Pk to cross to the down fast.

 

[Dren Ahmeti]

No one’s yet mentioned what used to be known as the empty carriage line out of the Sussex side of London Victoria. Used to allow simultaneous departures from the high numbered platforms (send one via the loop, one via the down fast). For example xx:05 from 15 is a few mins late; xx:08 sent via the ECS line with a lower speed and may not even have to stop at Battersea Pk to cross to the down fast.

That'll be the Brighton Reversible!
Not the fastest of routes.

 

[zwk500]

When my mum was commuting to Bristol for a few months in 2018, she said it was reasonably common for the Bristol-Worcester GWR stopper she was on to "stop in the middle of nowhere" in the evening and wait for another train to go past. This would presumably be the GWR being put into Charfield loop (or, much less likely given the proximity to Gloucester, Haresfield loop) to allow a late running XC service to overtake.
No idea if this still happens regularly or not

Yes, I was on a late-running XC that was able to overtake the Worcester-Gloucester in the southbound direction on Monday night. However we didn't make up any additional time (although were saved from needing to wait for the stopper to call at Yate) while the GWR lost c.10 minutes when it had been running on time. Given the proximity to Bristol Parkway I don't know how often Charfield gets used in either direction as waiting until/holding at Parkway will be the preference.

 

[jadmor]

How about the loop between Dalgety Bay and Inverkeithing? No idea whether it’s booked or how often it’s used but I was surprised to find myself on a train in it in the summer, given the fact that the only other one I can remember using in recent years is Chelford.

I think that there is one morning train from Fife that is looped after Dalmeny to let an up Aberdeen express pass.

 

[edwin_m]

I think that there is one morning train from Fife that is looped after Dalmeny to let an up Aberdeen express pass.

I found one morning and one lunchtime when I checked the timetable a couple of weeks ago, having had the same experience. I didn't check the whole timetable as I was only trying to work out if it was a repeating clockface thing (it isn't, as the Aberdeens aren't very regular) so there may be others at other times or at weekends.

 

[Cricketer8for9]

That'll be the Brighton Reversible!
Not the fastest of routes.
View attachment 191744

Thanks. I once made it over the 15mph crossover up fast to reversible when we got sent back to Clapham Jct because of a bomb scare. Probably 30 years ago.

And using it tonight. Not sure why as 18:35 left on time.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

A few years ago, a slow DMU going to Windermere/Barrow or Morecambe would go into the Barton loop past my UK home to let a Pendolino (iirc) pass. I have footplated (in D396) circa 1972, the Barton loop, courtesy of a very kind driver in those days!

 

[Shaun_92]

Thorne Junction Loop, if TPE is running late then Northern Scunthorpe stopper is put in loop to allow the TransPennine Express to Pass (Sometimes the Northern Stopper is held at Doncaster instead of been put in the loop at Thorne Jn)

 

[Highlander1]

Keith loop is regularly used on the single track section between Inverurie and Insch. I think it's the only one on that line that's not a station

 

[Ian Hardy]

Keith loop is regularly used on the single track section between Inverurie and Insch. I think it's the only one on that line that's not a station

But Keith loop is not used by a train going in the same direction to overtake another train going in the same direction, which is what the original post requested.

 

[Highlander1]

But Keith loop is not used by a train going in the same direction to overtake another train going in the same direction, which is what the original post requested.

Alright. Its not the only suggestion that doesn't meet every criteria in the initial post.

 

[Kite159]

Keith loop is regularly used on the single track section between Inverurie and Insch. I think it's the only one on that line that's not a station

Especially since the layout at Forres was changed as from memory that was similar in having a passing loop outside the station. Although not used to allow a train to pass another in the same direction.

 

[edwin_m]

Some loops on the Highland main line re-signalled in the 1970s had a "through" and a "loop" track, with the through having no signals alongside the loop and the loop having approach-lit exit signals for both directions. Crossing moves at these loops will see the first train to arrive being stopped in the loop for the other one to pass. This arrangement should allow for overtaking as well, but I don't know if it ever happens.

 

[MarkyT]

Some loops on the Highland main line re-signalled in the 1970s had a "through" and a "loop" track, with the through having no signals alongside the loop and the loop having approach-lit exit signals for both directions. Crossing moves at these loops will see the first train to arrive being stopped in the loop for the other one to pass. This arrangement should allow for overtaking as well, but I don't know if it ever happens.

Most likely for freight, empty stock, light locos, and engineering movements. The long time in the loop on a single line would discourage same-direction passenger trains passing, except perhaps excursions, where minimising journey time is not the primary concern.

 

[S101]

Bamford Loop on the Hope Valley regularly gets used if the stopper is around 8 mins late, providing the TP-X is on time behind it. Bamford seems to get used more for the stopper than freight. Not something that was envisaged by the project, who I'm sure planned it more for freight.....