Frequently used loops situated between stations

[GordonT]

Are you able to please identify any loops which meet the following criteria? Likely to be occupied by sidelined passenger trains mid-journey on most days to let one or more faster/greater priority trains overtake the looped train. Such occurrences not to be "booked" to occur but "ad hoc" to mitigate further delay to already late running train(s).
Exclude situations where slow trains are held within stations to be overtaken on an adjacent line.
Put simply which loops see the most frequent unscheduled use by passenger trains?

 

[SteveOfTheStow]

Doesn’t happen most days, so doesn’t quite meet your criteria, but also not far off and starts the conversation:
Kent House.

Slow trains to Victoria are typically looped at Shortlands two stations away (where the four track route from Bromley South ends), but if a fast is delayed, sometimes the signaller will let the slow go through, stop at Beckenham Junction, then put it into the loop at Kent House, so that it makes progress and frees up platform 1 at Shortlands as Thameslinks heading up the Catford loop use that platform too.

 

[Western Sunset]

Not sure if this totally fits the criteria, but passenger traffic pass each other between St Denys and Northam Jn quite regularly.

 

[LowLevel]

Glazebrook East Junction down passenger loop. Often occupied by Northern Oxford Road to Lime St stoppers to allow late running EMR 1Rxx trains to overtake, not as far as I am aware ever actually scheduled.

 

[Peterthegreat]

Both Moorthorpe and Hemsworth loops are used on a regular basis (not planned).

 

[tram21]

Between Ambergate and Derby, both Broadholme and Breadsall loops are used quite frequently, almost exclusively by EMR Matlock trains which are looped so that late running express EMR Intercity and CrossCountry services can over-take the stopping services.

I think this is done more than it normally would to avoid delay repay on EMR Intercity services heading north (heading south its done to avoid further delays on southern MML congested sections), which then causes knock-on delays to Matlock services, sometimes quite severe, when it then misses its slot on this line on the return, and in worst cases can end up 30 minutes late!

 

[jfollows]

Chelford loop, almost no scheduled services, used for the purpose you describe, less often then four times a day though. Mainly down services, and often the stopper uses the Sandbach back platform instead.

 

[Bald Rick]

I think this is done more than it normally would to avoid delay repay on EMR Intercity services heading north

Nothing to do with delay repay, and entirely to do with:

a) minimising overall delay
b) thatthe EMR intercity services will have typically a few hundred people on who have paid, on average, a decent sum for their ticket, whereas the Matlock train will have typically, a few score people who have paid, on average, not much.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Doesn’t happen most days, so doesn’t quite meet your criteria, but also not far off and starts the conversation:
Kent House.

Slow trains to Victoria are typically looped at Shortlands two stations away (where the four track route from Bromley South ends), but if a fast is delayed, sometimes the signaller will let the slow go through, stop at Beckenham Junction, then put it into the loop at Kent House, so that it makes progress and frees up platform 1 at Shortlands as Thameslinks heading up the Catford loop use that platform too.

I’ve always wondered why they didn’t use these loops more. The Ramsgate trains start to catch up with the locals at Sydenham Hill. Do they ever send them via Catford still? I did see a Dover train rush through Denmark Hill the other day.

 

[Horizon22]

It’s considered bad practice to keep passenger trains outside of stations in loops for a prolonged period without a pretty decent reason most of the time these days. You just regulate at a junction/station as needed.

On the Elizabeth line, trains can often be held in Westbourne Park for a few minutes to regulate the service when trains approach in the wrong order to allow a faster westbound service (Reading / Terminal 5) a clear run in front of an all-stopper (Terminal 4)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Oct 2025 ==

I’ve always wondered why they didn’t use these loops more. The Ramsgate trains start to catch up with the locals at Sydenham Hill. Do they ever send them via Catford still? I did see a Dover train rush through Denmark Hill the other day.

Rarely, especially with the intensification of the Thameslink service in recent years. No benefit gained.

 

[Revilo]

The loops beyond Yatton station are used in times of service disruption to allow faster trains to overtake slower trains. But probably not 4+ times every day.

 

[nineteenninety]

Not exactly a loop but Hartford Junction in Cheshire, I seem to recall a quite common occurrence of the Southbound LNWR being 'looped' there to let an express Avanti though.

 

[The exile]

How about the loop between Dalgety Bay and Inverkeithing? No idea whether it’s booked or how often it’s used but I was surprised to find myself on a train in it in the summer, given the fact that the only other one I can remember using in recent years is Chelford.

 

[tram21]

b) thatthe EMR intercity services will have typically a few hundred people on who have paid, on average, a decent sum for their ticket, whereas the Matlock train will have typically, a few score people who have paid, on average, not much.

And therefore more money for EMR to pay in a delay...

Only joking, I understand about 80% of the time why its done in the circumstances, occasionally it makes little sense. Will be interesting to see if the frequency it happens changes come the timetable change.

 

[Mattplans]

Rarely, especially with the intensification of the Thameslink service in recent years. No benefit gained.

By "intensification of the Thameslink service", are you referring to the reduced Thameslink service compared to pre-covid that now goes no further than London Blackfriars?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Oct 2025 ==

I’ve always wondered why they didn’t use these loops more. The Ramsgate trains start to catch up with the locals at Sydenham Hill. Do they ever send them via Catford still? I did see a Dover train rush through Denmark Hill the other day.

Only during disruption - the hourly via Denmark Hill from Gillingham does however run this route but is very slow because it's routed behind 2 stopping services, this means it's no faster than a stopping service via Herne Hill leaving BMS at the same time. This is just poor timetabling though, as when trains originally due to run via Herne Hill are diverted via Denmark Hill you can see that they'll still reach Victoria at roughly the same time when there's no stopping service in front slowing it down.

 

[brad465]

I’ve always wondered why they didn’t use these loops more. The Ramsgate trains start to catch up with the locals at Sydenham Hill. Do they ever send them via Catford still? I did see a Dover train rush through Denmark Hill the other day.

Kent House has been used in the up direction if a fast train is late and the stopper has got out infront of it at Shortlands Jct as a result. To be an effective passing loop though, ideally it would also encompass Penge East, but the space won't exist to extend it there.

By "intensification of the Thameslink service", are you referring to the reduced Thameslink service compared to pre-covid that now goes no further than London Blackfriars?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Oct 2025 ==


Only during disruption - the hourly via Denmark Hill from Gillingham does however run this route but is very slow because it's routed behind 2 stopping services, this means it's no faster than a stopping service via Herne Hill leaving BMS at the same time. This is just poor timetabling though, as when trains originally due to run via Herne Hill are diverted via Denmark Hill you can see that they'll still reach Victoria at roughly the same time when there's no stopping service in front slowing it down.

The down service is timed reasonably well, taking 23 minutes between Victoria and Bromley South, including the Denmark Hill call, however the up service is the poorly pathed one, taking 30 minutes. The problem is this service cannot run any later as a fast Chatham mainline service almost catches it up in the Bromley area (about 4 minutes difference at Bromley South), and presumably the Thameslink service can't run any earlier due to the strict core timetable. I suspect in the up direction any passengers from St Mary Cray-Sole St inclusive wanting Victoria get off at Bromley South and wait on the same platform, the train behind gets their first.

 

[Mattplans]

W

Kent House has been used in the up direction if a fast train is late and the stopper has got out infront of it at Shortlands Jct as a result. To be an effective passing loop though, ideally it would also encompass Penge East, but the space won't exist to extend it there.

The down service is timed reasonably well, taking 23 minutes between Victoria and Bromley South, including the Denmark Hill call, however the up service is the poorly pathed one, taking 30 minutes. The problem is this service cannot run any later as a fast Chatham mainline service almost catches it up in the Bromley area (about 4 minutes difference at Bromley South), and presumably the Thameslink service can't run any earlier due to the strict core timetable. I suspect in the up direction any passengers from St Mary Cray-Sole St inclusive wanting Victoria get off at Bromley South and wait on the same platform, the train behind gets their first.

ell that's ridiculous considering for majority of the day the TL doesn't enter the core. But I do understand that when it does - it runs about 10 mins later (noticed towards Kent - not sure if it's the same towards Ldn)?
I've always thought the ideal situation would be for the DMK semi-fast and the TL service to depart BMS at the same time like the Victoria services do, but I had not considered the very good points you make about catching up. What really is the purpose of this service then, can I ask? Why does it need to run via Denmark Hill? Surely one would just prefer the reinstatement of the Orpington to Lutons to maintain the Denmark Hill connection.

 

[ld0595]

The evening Fife Circle loco hauled service used to stop in the loop by Dalmeny when returning to Edinburgh if I recall correctly. Think it was to let a fast Aberdeen service pass. I know the loco hauled service no longer runs but I'm not sure if any service is booked to stop there nowadays.

 

[Horizon22]

By "intensification of the Thameslink service", are you referring to the reduced Thameslink service compared to pre-covid that now goes no further than London Blackfriars?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Oct 2025 ==

No. It’s still increased prior to what it was before 2018 when a run on the Catford Loop was more common.

 

[Dr Hoo]

The Heeley loops (more Down than Up) are frequently used to re-sequence trains south of Sheffield.

 

[marsker]

2N09, the up morning "Chathill Flyer", is booked to call in Wooden Gate loop, just south of Alnmouth from 0722 to 0735 Mon - Sat.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Chelford loop, almost no scheduled services, used for the purpose you describe, less often then four times a day though. Mainly down services, and often the stopper uses the Sandbach back platform instead.

I've been on a Northern stopper service to Crewe that's had to pull in there (Chelford loops, in the 'up' direction), in order to allow a late-running Avanti service from Manchester for London Euston to pass. Doesn't often need to happen, as far as I am aware, though.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Kent House has been used in the up direction if a fast train is late and the stopper has got out infront of it at Shortlands Jct as a result. To be an effective passing loop though, ideally it would also encompass Penge East, but the space won't exist to extend it there.

The down service is timed reasonably well, taking 23 minutes between Victoria and Bromley South, including the Denmark Hill call, however the up service is the poorly pathed one, taking 30 minutes. The problem is this service cannot run any later as a fast Chatham mainline service almost catches it up in the Bromley area (about 4 minutes difference at Bromley South), and presumably the Thameslink service can't run any earlier due to the strict core timetable. I suspect in the up direction any passengers from St Mary Cray-Sole St inclusive wanting Victoria get off at Bromley South and wait on the same platform, the train behind gets their first.

I’ve recently wondered if the third track could be installed at Nunhead as a passing loop.

 

[jfollows]

I've been on a Northern stopper service to Crewe that's had to pull in there (Chelford loops, in the 'up' direction), in order to allow a late-running Avanti service from Manchester for London Euston to pass. Doesn't often need to happen, as far as I am aware, though.

It was used a lot during the Greek Street bridge closure at Stockport, I was both overtaken there and overtook something there.
2K31 17:06 Piccadilly-Crewe currently booked to use it; 1O68 17:25 Piccadilly-Bournemouth overtakes it there, 1O68 is itself routed via Crewe to free up a path for the extra (to the otherwise hourly stopping service) 2K50 17:18 Piccadilly-Stoke.

 

[eastwestdivide]

The Heeley loops (more Down than Up) are frequently used to re-sequence trains south of Sheffield.

And in the up direction, if the Cleethorpes-Liverpool Transpennine is ~10 or so mins late, I've fairly often been on a Hope Valley stopper that's left Sheffield first and been overtaken in the loop

 

[Cheshire Scot]

When I was working in Crewe in the late 1990s Chelford loop ws frequently used to recess the local class 323 service to let a late running Cardiff - Manchester pass. It was a jusdgement call as to which train to get on depending on how late the Cardiff train was advised as running with the 323 in the platform and ready to depart, sometimes I won and sometimes I lost. On more than one occasion the local actually passed through the loop (which is quite long) without actually stopping as the driver regulated his speed to somewhere near walking pace with the signal clearing after passage of the faster train as he was approaching it. Never been in the up loop at Chelford however.

I don't think I have been in Heeley loops but often seen the up one used for the Manchester bound stopper

 

[sad1e]

Would all of the many Loops on the Borders railway count ?

 

[CarltonA]

Newbury trains can be looped if the Cornish Riviera or Exeter services are running late behind them. This is either in the loop near Theale or in the racecourse area when the express can be routed through the third platform at Racecourse station.

 

[Peter0124]

Macclesfield platform 3?

 

[jfollows]

Macclesfield platform 3?

2K50 mentioned in post #24 uses it. But that’s scheduled of course. Probably used in the down direction sometimes by the stopper. And not between stations of course.

2K14 12:45 Piccadilly to Stoke (https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Y06220/2025-10-30/detailed#allox_id=0) used it yesterday. 1A39 12:35 Piccadilly-Euston, running late, overtook it there (https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:W09243/2025-10-30/detailed#allox_id=0).