Frequent signal failures at Richmond

[AJW12]

Hi all,

Long time since I've started a thread so hope I've done this right...

I live in and commute to/from Richmond regularly, sometimes using the District Line and sometimes the London Overground, and alarmingly frequently the line is entirely suspended for long periods of time due to signal failures here. (The signals are operated by Network Rail, hence not putting this on the tube discussion).

I had a look at historic statuses* and this has happened rather a lot in the last few months:

Today, 26th June: no service due to a signal failure at Richmond
June 15th: continued signal failure from the 14th (they couldn't even fix it overnight!)
June 14th: signal failure at Richmond
May 10th: signal failure at Richmond
May 9th: signal failure at Kew Gardens (just up the line)
May 2nd: signal failure at Richmond
Mar 27th: signal failure at Richmond

This seems to be extremely frequent - I can't think of many places on the tube network that the signals consistently fail at in the same place as often as here. The signals on the SWR used lines are generally much more reliable; the infrastructure has its moments but it's definitely not as often as the Richmond-Gunnersbury line.

Interested in why this is? What makes this stretch of line so unreliable?

(Source: the @tweetthetube account on X which is a bot fed from TfL's status boards).

 

[Dstock7080]

Hi all,

I had a look at historic statuses* and this has happened rather a lot in the last few months:

Today, 26th June: no service due to a signal failure at Richmond
June 15th: continued signal failure from the 14th (they couldn't even fix it overnight!). FQ track circuit, no District train available for 05.31 train
June 14th: signal failure at Richmond. late finish of engineering work, new check-rail install. FQ track circuit, repaired 10.15; failed again 16.20 until close.
May 10th: signal failure at Richmond. track circuit FP, GB17 home signal Richmond
May 9th: signal failure at Kew Gardens (just up the line). GB17 home signal Richmond, transmission unit
May 2nd: signal failure at Richmond. FQ track circuit
Mar 27th: signal failure at Richmond. FQ track circuit

Interested in why this is? What makes this stretch of line so unreliable?

Seems to be recurring failure of several items attached to FQ track circuit, unable to trace root cause.

 

[wokspotter]

Another Network Rail area that seems to suffer from fairly frequent failures is the Bakerloo Line north of Queens Park.Probably not as often as the Richmond branch though.

 

[starlight73]

There was also a signal failure at Richmond on Tues 25 Jun in the afternoon - I was heading for Gunnersbury at about 5pm and Gunnersbury-Richmond was suspended!

 

[Dstock7080]

There was also a signal failure at Richmond on Tues 25 Jun in the afternoon - I was heading for Gunnersbury at about 5pm and Gunnersbury-Richmond was suspended!

“Loss of signal control due to loss of functionality of signallers panel”.

 

[starlight73]

Thanks Dstock… and again, there was a signal failure at Gunnersbury this morning (30 June). District line still showing as suspended but National Rail say the fault is fixed. is it just bad luck or is there an underlying problem with this branch?

Lines have now reopened following a fault with the signalling system at Gunnersbury.

Incident: Gunnersbury | National Rail

Lines reopened between Richmond and South Acton. Find details of all current incidents on National Rail Enquiries.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

So this makes 3 signal failures and suspensions on the branch this week (25, 26 and 30 June).

 

[Surreytraveller]

London Underground and Overground will tend to suspend services rather than cope with delays as its easier to manage.
Other National Rail services will tend to run with disruption, as that's easier for them to manage and its not as easy for them to suspend services

 

[apinnard]

District line suspended for a large chunk of today Richmond to Turnham Green. Reason given is signalling failure. Again. Made a good excuse to use the Upriver boat service to Westminster this evening.

 

[Disco Bat]

I use that part of the NNL to commute most days I have to say it really is constant I believe the local MP has raised it. I know that section can be pretty fragile when there’s disruption. LUL particularly affected where there are signalling issues as taking past signals is very time consuming. Does anyone know why there area covered by Richmond SB has been so badly affected recently? Or if there is any plans on NR’s side to bring the infrastructure in the area back up to scratch?

 

[Dstock7080]

District line suspended for a large chunk of today Richmond to Turnham Green. Reason given is signalling failure. Again. Made a good excuse to use the Upriver boat service to Westminster this evening.

10.15 DOWN signals GB1 and GB3 failing to clear, District services reduced by 50%.
NR block taken 12.20 for investigations. blown fuse indicated at 12.20, replaced and blows again.
Potential cable fault identified, to be fixed in engineering hours.
Service suspended until close.

 

[Class15]

Glad it isn’t just me that has noticed this. NLL services constantly terminating at Gunnersbury, South Acton and Willesden.

 

[apinnard]

Is GB3 the one that’s effectively the District Line’s home signal for Gunnersbury?

 

[Dstock7080]

Is GB3 the one that’s effectively the District Line’s home signal for Gunnersbury?

GB1 is the first signal from Turnham Green, GB3 is the next and closest signal to Gunnersbury

 

[apinnard]

GB1 is the first signal from Turnham Green, GB3 is the next and closest signal to Gunnersbury

Thank you @Dstock7080

 

[boiledbeans2]

Disruption again this morning (31/7). Checking RTT in the period 0700-0900, it seems the Overground trains were cancelled, but LU trains were still running.

 

[Dstock7080]

30/7 service suspended 17.15 100pts failing Gunnersbury, route secured for LO services only. Faulty relay changed, half-service resumed until close.

31/7 17.35 District services suspended Tower Hill-Ealing/Richmond/Wimbledon, fire alert Gloucester Road. Fire brigade attended. Recovery compounded by first train unable to gain movement. Train moving 18.50.

 

[apinnard]

Just been past on a District Line train. Looks like most of the location boxes on the approach to Richmond are wide open. Assume this is related to previous heat related problems with the equipment.

There’s also a rather nice Beamer parked lineside, next to the access point and within railway land. Whoever got the job of getting to site and cooling the kit has decent wheels

 

[Horizon22]

There’s also a rather nice Beamer parked lineside, next to the access point and within railway land. Whoever got the job of getting to site and cooling the kit has decent wheels

Might just be a contractor company car!

Location cabinets (and DOO equipment) is notoriously at risk during hot (+27C) weather

 

[Disco Bat]

Just been past on a District Line train. Looks like most of the location boxes on the approach to Richmond are wide open. Assume this is related to previous heat related problems with the equipment.

There’s also a rather nice Beamer parked lineside, next to the access point and within railway land. Whoever got the job of getting to site and cooling the kit has decent wheels

That’ll be the parking space for the signaller in Richmond SB

 

[Bald Rick]

That’ll be the parking space for the signaller in Richmond SB

IIRC, Grade 4, 12 hour shifts, loads of rest days available…

 

[apinnard]

IIRC, Grade 4, 12 hour shifts, loads of rest days available…

I assume the through lines at Richmond are controlled from Basingstoke (moved from Feltham ASC sometime in the last 5 years?) and the Richmond box just controls the District and NLL section to Bollo Lane? Is that still in use?

 

[Dstock7080]

correct

 

[Bald Rick]

I assume the through lines at Richmond are controlled from Basingstoke (moved from Feltham ASC sometime in the last 5 years?) and the Richmond box just controls the District and NLL section to Bollo Lane? Is that still in use?

Yes, although Bollo Lane ‘box closed a long time ago and the crossings are controlled by CCTV from Acton Wells.

 

[JGurney]

And again. No service between Turnham Green and Richmond this evening.

 

[Dstock7080]

And again. No service between Turnham Green and Richmond this evening.

LU point failure (37pts) Turnham Green, route 2 failed to clear. All trains to Ealing 13.36-15.42.

 

[JGurney]

All trains to Ealing 13.36-15.42.

When I was at Barons Court at 16:05 the announcement being made was "No service to Richmond until further notice".

 

[baz962]

That’ll be the parking space for the signaller in Richmond SB

Used to be a black M series iirc when I drove Overground. Possibly M3 or M4. Had seen it previously as I was being taxied to my train and thought that's nice and then spotting it at the box. On other days you would see a small car , possibly a Note or similar.

 

[godfreycomplex]

Used to be a black M series iirc when I drove Overground. Possibly M3 or M4. Had seen it previously as I was being taxied to my train and thought that's nice and then spotting it at the box. On other days you would see a small car , possibly a Note or similar.

Two types of signaller. The black BMW kind and the beaten up hatchback kind


(A - this is not a serious observation
B - I am firmly in the latter category)

 

[Dstock7080]

31/8 service suspended, UP signal GB10 failing Kew Gardens 11.00.
District resumed with half-service 11.28. Believed to be defect in Richmond cabin.
14.45 block taken again to fix problem, resumed to full service 15.30.

 

[apinnard]

31/8 service suspended, UP signal GB10 failing Kew Gardens 11.00.
District resumed with half-service 11.28. Believed to be defect in Richmond cabin.
14.45 block taken again to fix problem, resumed to full service 15.30.

You managed to beat us non-railway people this time. Good work

How many more loss of signalling faults can this little section take before something more serious is done about it.