French Winter Timetables/Fares

[daniel78]

Hi,

I thought I'd throw this one out here in case anyone has had a similar experience and can offer advice.

I'm considering a couple of days in the French city of Clermont-Ferrand. This would be my travel itinery.

Sun 9th Dec:
St Pancras - Paris Gare du Nord (Eurostar)
Paris Bercy - Clermont-Ferrand (Intercites)

Tue 11th Dec:
Return of above

I've been patiently stalking the tgv-europe.com site for the cheapest fares. A return trip would be about 128 Euros (£100), which I'd be happy with.

Of course, I realise today (as the day that 9th Dec should go on sale), that the winter timetable kicks in, and fares after 8th Dec are unavailable till 11th Oct

My question is whether when the fares go live on 11th October, would I see the same fares as before (apart from a possible inflationary rise)? What concerns me is that over the next month tickets for the Eurostar leg will be on sale, and that this will push up the cheapest available fares for the through trip. I really don't know how these fares are worked out as a combination of the legs. Any insight would be appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[Oscar]

Availability of the lower tiers of non-flexible Standard Class Eurostar fares will reduce as normal until the day of travel. If this means that the lowest price available for the Eurostar leg is higher on 11th October than now, this will be reflected in the price of the through ticket, which on www.tgv-europe.com is simply the Eurostar fare added to the Intercités fare. You can buy both tickets separately for maximum flexibility e.g. to choose a cheap Intercités ticket with an earlier Eurostar with a cheaper price or to stop off in Paris. If you buy from www.eurostar.com you can buy through tickets set at a different price - these will only be available from 11th October and as I understand it will be linked to the Eurostar fare and generally reflect though not be tied to the Intercités fare. My understanding is that Eurostar has a quota for the French domestic trains for these tickets and that for example when the £69 return to Paris and Intercités quota are both available, you will pay £99.
So you have three choices:
Buy Eurostar and wait for 11th October to buy the Intercités ticket - risk of being tied to an expensive Intercités train or a long wait in Paris for a cheaper train.
Buy both tickets on 11th October, comparing prices at www.tgv-europe.com, www.b-europe.co.uk (London - Paris leg only) and www.eurostar.com - risk of losing the cheapest Eurostar fare (particularly at the specific times you want to travel, less likely if flexible with departure times).
I'm afraid that unless European railways better co-ordinate ticket release dates (particularly for trips following the December timetable) passengers will have to take such risks and make uncomfortable decisions. You're lucky that the Intercités tickets go on sale so early - Deutsche Bahn's tickets normally do not go on sale until November.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Hi,
What concerns me is that over the next month tickets for the Eurostar leg will be on sale, and that this will push up the cheapest available fares for the through trip. I really don't know how these fares are worked out as a combination of the legs. Any insight would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Eurostar tickets for that date span were on sale at least 2½ weeks ago and given that it is just before Xmas I would suggest that the lower price quotas on the Eurostar leg are indeed likely to fill up quickly, but I cannot say how this might affect a through ticketing price as that might well have a quota set of its own.

 

[daniel78]

Thanks for the replies. I did a bit of further checking which did indeed confirm that the through fares offered at tgv-europe are simply an addition of the Eurostar and Intercites legs.

I decided to plump for snapping up the £69 return to Paris (bird in the hand and all that). If the Intercites fare is a bit more than I hoped its not the end of the world, likewise if I'm kicking my heels for a bit there's surely worse places to wander round for a bit than Paris.

Incidentally, my main holiday this year will involve visiting Luxembourg, 4 French cities, and Cologne, all travelling by train. One thing I've found with the tgv site is that tickets always go on sale at the stroke of midnight on the date advertised, unlike British TOCs whose policy seems to vary and be a bit hit and miss. So 11th October is already bookmarked to make sure I'm first in line.

Just a guess on my part, but it seems that for Eurostar+France journeys you pay the separate fares, whereas for Eurostar+countries without direct Eurostar services, there is some quota of cheaper seats. Perhaps this is something the railways for those countries negotiate. A couple of examples I've come across:

The last leg of my holiday mentioned above. I bought a London Spezial ticket from bahn.de (Cologne-Brussels, Brussels-St Pancras), treated myself to 1st class, 99 euros (about £80). When I checked the price of the Eurostar only - £101!

I helped my parents book a weeks holiday in Amsterdam recently. We toyed with the idea of one night in Brussels on the way back but eventually decided against it, so the price for Any Dutch Station-St Pancras was £40pp. While checking the Brussels-St Pancras service when investigating separate legs, that train only was over £50pp.

 

[Oscar]

There is a set quota for Eurostar for London-Spezial tickets and London-Spezial tickets between London and Aachen can be cheaper than Eurostar tickets between London and Brussels. Likewise, £69 returns to Brussels are sometimes available when the 49€ London-Spezial is not. The price of the London-Spezial depends on the Eurostar quota and the price of ICE/IC trains onwards from Brussels.

Any Dutch Station and Any Belgian Station fares should however be tied to the Eurostar fare. When the £69 return to Brussels is available, the £89 return to Any Dutch Station should be available and likewise for other price tiers. Any Dutch or Any Belgian station fares allow travel up to 24 hours before the Eurostar departs from Brussels / after it leaves so you can stay one night in Brussels using such a ticket but cannot spend two full days there.

 

[daniel78]

There is a set quota for Eurostar for London-Spezial tickets and London-Spezial tickets between London and Aachen can be cheaper than Eurostar tickets between London and Brussels. Likewise, £69 returns to Brussels are sometimes available when the 49€ London-Spezial is not. The price of the London-Spezial depends on the Eurostar quota and the price of ICE/IC trains onwards from Brussels.

Any Dutch Station and Any Belgian Station fares should however be tied to the Eurostar fare. When the £69 return to Brussels is available, the £89 return to Any Dutch Station should be available and likewise for other price tiers. Any Dutch or Any Belgian station fares allow travel up to 24 hours before the Eurostar departs from Brussels / after it leaves so you can stay one night in Brussels using such a ticket but cannot spend two full days there.

As for as Any Belgian Station to London goes I'd agree with you from experience. The fare to Any Belgian Station usually seems to be about a fiver more than just Brussels.

For Any Dutch Station to London to London it's not that straightforward. To double check what I wrote before I just checked prices for Friday 19th October and found:

Any Dutch Station to London - mostly £40, a couple of trains £72
Brussels to London - one train at £61, mostly £72, a couple at £84

 

[Oscar]

As far as I can see London - Any Dutch Station single and London - Any Dutch Station return are tied to the London - Brussels fares but Any Dutch Station - London single very peculiarly is not. There is no quota for onward services to the Netherlands using Any Dutch Station tickets so there is no reason why anything other than the Eurostar fare should cause variation in the prices although of course London - Any Dutch Station has a separate fare table to London - Brussels so such variation is of course possible (http://www.eurostar.com/UK/uk/leisure/travel_information/before_you_go/fares.jsp). The same oddity occurs when using www.ns-hispeed.nl. At one point London - Any Belgian Station used to be a fixed sum more than London - Brussels but the fare table for Any Belgian Station now differs more from that to Brussels, as there are 7 rather than 6 Standard Non-flexible fares.

 

[daniel78]

Just thought I'd bump this one to let you know how my trip went.

I booked my onward tickets to Clermont-Ferrand the day they went on sale. I decided on 1st class for Eu60 instead of 30. The times looked exactly the same as the previous timetable anyway. Coming home today I get settled into my seat and it appears there is a problem with the carriage so one of the two 1st class carriages goes, resulting in my being bumped to 2nd. The train leaves late and eventually arrives in Paris 40 mins late. I'd left a 1hr16 connection time but arrive at the Eurostar checkin 11 mins before departure, too late

Still, I explained my situation calmly, and received excellent service from the Eurostar staff who re-booked me on the 7.13 tomorrow, and pointed me in the direction of the SNCF helpdesk. I'm currently enjoying a comfy night in the Ibis Paris courtesy of SNCF I don't imagine I'd be saying the same if it was a connecting Ryanair flight I'd missed.