French Rolling Stock

[STEVIEBOY1]

All being well, strikes permitting, I will be going to the South Central/South West of France in a few days.

It's Eurostar and TGV for the mainline long journeys, but then I will be travelling on a direct train around 0816 hours from Perpignan to Toulouse which is shown as Intercites in the timetables and then from Toulouse to Biarritz on a direct train around 1000 hours, that service either has no train type in some timetables or Corail/Intercites in other publications. ?

I just was wondering what those latter trains will be like, are they loco hauled or units and would they be open carriages of compartments. I wonder if they have any catering on board. ?

Does anyone have any knowledge/experience of these trains?

Thank You.

 

[30907]

As no-one with more knowledge has responded:
best guess, and assuming no variation due to strike, is

no catering (unless the various SNCF sites say otherwise, they are fairly reliable)

Corail stock is largely open in 2nd - unlikely to be a unit

 

[jamesontheroad]

The French version of voyages-sncf.com is more detailed than the English version.

Looking at a typical weekday in July, your train from Perpignan to Toulouse is #3630, and has a number of amenities listed suggesting it's going to be a fully refurbished Corail loco hauled rake (although check your date).

Furthermore, on the French site you can also express a seat preference for the Intercités segment, which indicates the kind of carriages you can expect. Once you've selected your train, there's a pulldown under 'Indiquez votre préférence de placement'. The options are

• Indifférent (no preference)
• A côté de (next to - this brings up a seat number box, if you want to sit next someone who's already booked)
• Fenêtre (window)
• Couloir (aisle)
• Salle (open carriage)
• Compartiment (compartment).

It's been a while since I took an Intercités train, but that last option suggests at least one car will have compartments, which were always my preference on older SNCF stock (if only because it's something we've lost in the UK).

This page (in French) tells you a bit about the service on Intercités de Jour (daytime) and Intercités de Nuit (nighttime). will be catering - either pre booked meals delivered to your seat after departure ('Restauration en Prévente') or purchase from the trolley ('La restauration ambulante'). These are the current prebookable menus.

The 10:09 direct Toulouse Marabiau > Biarritz is listed as an Intercités train, so Corail stock, but no reservations and no amenities.

 

[Redonian]

The Intercites branding no longer guarantees Corail stock. A number of Intercites services are now worked by units some with TER branding. The Quimper - Nantes Intercites is one such and has been for several years. A general indication that an Intercites train is a unit is a 1 at the beginning of the train number, which the 10:09 indeed has.

 

[CC 72100]

The Intercites branding no longer guarantees Corail stock. A number of Intercites services are now worked by units some with TER branding. The Quimper - Nantes Intercites is one such and has been for several years. A general indication that an Intercites train is a unit is a 1 at the beginning of the train number, which the 10:09 indeed has.

That's a good shout - it's not failsafe, as I've had Rouen services or Le Havre stopping trains with a '1' prefix that have been loco-hauled (as opposed to being a TER Haute Normandie unit as on most shorter workings), but that normally does work like that, with Intercités loco-hauled being normal 4 digit train numbers.

 

[Gordon]

A number of Intercites services are now worked by units some with TER branding.

Not a huge proportion though. Of the main Intercites trunk routes only Paris - Granville is fully unit operated. Bordeaux - Lyon was famously a conversion from LH to totally inappropriate X-TER units, but that problem was solved by getting rid of the train! Hirson - Metz is unit but that is not much of a service anyway (never has been as the line was principally a freight route). Tours - Lyon went unit but has reverted to 67400 hauled (yippee!).

The compartment corails are the VU type. I cannot find an up to date stock list but as at jan 2012 there were still plenty on the books.

That's a good shout - it's not failsafe, .

I agree. The hourly Paris - Orleans trains are all 1xxxxx and are loco hauled.





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[Peter Mugridge]

I cannot find an up to date stock list but as at jan 2012 there were still plenty on the books.

Specialist transport Publications have produced a French carriages book this year which also includes Austria, Germany, Spain, Portugal and Switzerland.

 

[Gordon]

Specialist transport Publications have produced a French carriages book this year which also includes Austria, Germany, Spain, Portugal and Switzerland.

Ok thanks for the tip

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

I Have just returned from my French trip.

The Intercites train from Perpignan to Toulouse was quite modern and seat reservations applied. Rolling stock was electric loco hauled, poss by class 22. Seating was in open carriages, some airline style and some around tables, odd configuration though as the ends off carriages it was normal, 2 x 2 seating, but in the centre it was 3 x 1. It was going all the way to Paris Austerlitz.


The Train from Toulouse to Biarritz, also classed as intercites, electric loco hauled had older carriages, some open and some compartments. No reservations applied on this train. Again some airline seating and some around tables in the open coaches.

Neither train had buffet or trolley.

Saw a few of the older diesel locos around France, 567 626 was in Platform 2 at Gare du Nord last night.

 

[Gordon]

I Have just returned from my French trip.

The Intercites train from Perpignan to Toulouse was quite modern and seat reservations applied. Rolling stock was electric loco hauled, poss by class 22. Seating was in open carriages, some airline style and some around tables, odd configuration though as the ends off carriages it was normal, 2 x 2 seating, but in the centre it was 3 x 1. It was going all the way to Paris Austerlitz.
The Train from Toulouse to Biarritz, also classed as intercites, electric loco hauled had older carriages, some open and some compartments. No reservations applied on this train. Again some airline seating and some around tables in the open coaches.
Saw a few of the older diesel locos around France, 567 626 was in Platform 2 at Gare du Nord last night.

In fact both sets of coaches (Corail type) are the same 'age', but as noted in other threads, the Perpignan - Paris train sounds like it was made up of 'Teoz' branded coaches ( a brand mega hyped when new with significantly refurbished interiors and loadsamoney spent (wasted?...) now dropped and renamed rather unimaginatively Intercites a reservation obligatoire) whereas the Toulouse - Biarritz was presumably 'standard' Corail type stock as is the norm on the loco hauleds in the south west.

The Perpignan was either a class 7200 or 22200 (if it looked like this: http://gwizz.zenfolio.com/burgundyjune12/h12395561#h12395561). or a Sybic BB26000 ( http://gwizz.zenfolio.com/alsacejune2012/h37efcfac#h37efcfac)

The Toulouse - Biarritz was probably a dc only BB7200: http://gwizz.piwigo.com/picture?/2693/category/35-france_november_2012 which are the main traction for expresses in the extreme south west

67626 is a Picardie region class BB67400 diesel. Probably on the Sundays Le Treport seaside working. Not long for this life...

The notation 'Class 22' should really be avoided in reference to SNCF classes, which are always rendered with the 'hundred' or 'thousand' figure added - ie BB22200, or BB67400. Also the notation xxx xxx (as in 567 626) should be avoided as the prefix number 5 is nothing to do with the class number - it is just a a sector number.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_SNCF_classes


cheers
G

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

In fact both sets of coaches (Corail type) are the same 'age', but as noted in other threads, the Perpignan - Paris train sounds like it was made up of 'Teoz' branded coaches ( a brand mega hyped when new with significantly refurbished interiors and loadsamoney spent (wasted?...) now dropped and renamed rather unimaginatively Intercites a reservation obligatoire) whereas the Toulouse - Biarritz was presumably 'standard' Corail type stock as is the norm on the loco hauleds in the south west.

The Perpignan was either a class 22200 (if it looked like this: http://gwizz.zenfolio.com/burgundyjune12/h12395561#h12395561). or a Sybic BB26000 ( http://gwizz.zenfolio.com/alsacejune2012/h37efcfac#h37efcfac)
Has to be dual voltage as part of the route is 25kv and part is 1500 dc

The Toulouse - Biarritz was probably a dc only BB7200: http://gwizz.piwigo.com/picture?/2693/category/35-france_november_2012

67626 is a Picardie region class BB67400 diesel. Probably on the Sundays Le Treport seaside working. Not long for this life...

The notation 'Class 22' should really be avoided in reference to SNCF classes, which are always rendered with the 'hundred' or 'thousand' figure added - ie BB22200, or BB67400. Also the notation xxx xxx (as in 567 626) should be avoided as the prefix number 5 is nothing to do with the class number - it is just a a sector number.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_SNCF_classes


cheers
G

Thank you for your info here and the photos, yes I think you are right about the loco on the Toulouse/Biarritz section and it looked like the first loco photo for the train to Toulouse, which incidentally reversed at Narbonne, (As did the Biarritz train at Bayonne where we sat for 35 mins while the loco ran round and I think they had a lunch break, it was all in the timetable though, the journey then only took 5 -10 mins to get to Biarritz)

 

[Western Lord]

The Perpignan was either a class 22200 (if it looked like this: http://gwizz.zenfolio.com/burgundyjune12/h12395561#h12395561). or a Sybic BB26000 ( http://gwizz.zenfolio.com/alsacejune2012/h37efcfac#h37efcfac)
Has to be dual voltage as part of the route is 25kv and part is 1500 dc

The only 25kv in the southwest is the bit of LGV into Spain. This is very much 1500v DC territory.

 

[Gordon]

The only 25kv in the southwest is the bit of LGV into Spain. This is very much 1500v DC territory.

My mistake (posted so late at night that my brain had clearly gone to sleep). Post corrected.

However it does raise a worthwhile point.

Although the area may be "very much 1500v DC territory", in point of fact the Narbonne - Perpignan electrification is rare and unusual in being a 'modern' 1500 DC extension.

Most post-1970 extensions to the original dc network wired DC in the 1930s - 1950s (ie the 'PLM' and 'PO' networks southeast and southwest from Paris (plus the Etat railway Paris - Le Mans scheme) have been at 25kV AC .

This followed the decision by SNCF in the late 1950s to develop 25kV AC electrification whilst also developing dual voltage electric loco fleets rather than convert existing extensive dc electrification.

Thus the major extensions to the original dc network have been AC (ie Le Mans - Rennes, Marseille - Cote d'Azur, Lyon - Grenoble).





.

 

[Western Lord]

My mistake (posted so late at night that my brain had clearly gone to sleep). Post corrected.

However it does raise a worthwhile point.

Although the area may be "very much 1500v DC territory", in point of fact the Narbonne - Perpignan electrification is rare and unusual in being a 'modern' 1500 DC extension.

Most post-1970 extensions to the original dc network wired DC in the 1930s - 1950s (ie the 'PLM' and 'PO' networks southeast and southwest from Paris (plus the Etat railway Paris - Le Mans scheme) have been at 25kV AC .

This followed the decision by SNCF in the late 1950s to develop 25kV AC electrification whilst also developing dual voltage electric loco fleets rather than convert existing extensive dc electrification.

Thus the major extensions to the original dc network have been AC (ie Le Mans - Rennes, Marseille - Cote d'Azur, Lyon - Grenoble).

Not so rare and unusual! Bordeuax to Montauban (on the Paris-Toulouse line) was electrified at 1500v DC in 1980. Much more recently (late nineties), Vierzon-Bourges was electrified at 1500v DC. Subsequently the lines on either side of this section (Tours-Vierzon, Bourges-Saincaize) have been electrified at 25kv AC so trains from Tours to Nevers leave Tours on DC, switch to AC, back to DC at Vierzon then back to AC after Bourges.