Freightliner Class 70 - the future?

[CosherB]

I've seen speculation elsewhere on the interweb about the future of the Freightliner 70s. It seems that pairs of 86s/90s instead of 70s is being considered on the WCML, together with a question mark over the long term future of the 70s with Freightliner.

It is also reported Freightliner has given GBRf an end date for the Class 90 contract and is not prepared to extend any further, giving some credibility to the above traction change.

Thoughts?

 

[TimboM]

What does the speculation suggest they're planning to do with the Class 70s? Unless it's sell / sub-lease them on I can't see this making commercial sense?

Particularly not where the 90s on-hire to GBRf are concerned. Currently FL are getting income from GBRf for the 90s (and for limited operating costs) and the 70s are also revenue-generating on regular FL workings. If they took the 90s back and stored the 70s they'd lose the GBRf hire revenue and I doubt the saving on the 70 vs 2x 90s running costs would make it stack up. I would have thought that if FL have got the pricing right on their hire contract they'd let GBRf have them (and pay for them!) for as long as they need them.

 

[Topgun333]

Fact is that it will still be some time before you can run an uninterrupted train from Southampton Maritime to Trafford Park under wires.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Fact is that it will still be some time before you can run an uninterrupted train from Southampton Maritime to Trafford Park under wires.

What's the approx mileage of that route that has no OLE?

 

[edwin_m]

What's the approx mileage of that route that has no OLE?

All the way to somewhere around Birmingham, except Reading to Didcot, so well over half of it.

 

[43096]

What does the speculation suggest they're planning to do with the Class 70s? Unless it's sell / sub-lease them on I can't see this making commercial sense?



Particularly not where the 90s on-hire to GBRf are concerned. Currently FL are getting income from GBRf for the 90s (and for limited operating costs) and the 70s are also revenue-generating on regular FL workings. If they took the 90s back and stored the 70s they'd lose the GBRf hire revenue and I doubt the saving on the 70 vs 2x 90s running costs would make it stack up. I would have thought that if FL have got the pricing right on their hire contract they'd let GBRf have them (and pay for them!) for as long as they need them.

First question based on that is when does the lease on the 70s expire?

 

[TimboM]

First question based on that is when does the lease on the 70s expire?

As FL acquired them new in 2009-11 you'd think they'd have a few years left on the leases (assuming they are leased).

I'm also struggling to see how longer term using 2x 30-40 year old locos is preferable to using 1x 6-7 year old one?

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Looking on wikipedia Colas Rail have got:

* 12 x class 37
* 3 x class 47
* 11 x class 56
* 10 x class 60

Could Colas buy the 70s off of Freightliner and then use them to replace some of the above?

 

[CosherB]

Looking on wikipedia Colas Rail have got:

* 12 x class 37
* 3 x class 47
* 11 x class 56
* 10 x class 60

Could Colas buy the 70s off of Freightliner and then use them to replace some of the above?

Oh dear, Wiki strikes again! That's a pretty poor copy and paste job, plus you missed off 5 x 66s and 10 x 70s. Plus another 7 x 70s on the way.

 

[Photohunter71]

Oh dear, Wiki strikes again! That's a pretty poor copy and paste job, plus you missed off 5 x 66s and 10 x 70s. Plus another 7 x 70s on the way.

Beat me to it!

 

[ac6000cw]

Oh dear, Wiki strikes again! That's a pretty poor copy and paste job, plus you missed off 5 x 66s and 10 x 70s. Plus another 7 x 70s on the way.

I think he was just listing their older locos - no point in suggesting replacing 70s with other 70s is there?

 

[Bertie the bus]

They replaced their original 66s with other 66s.

As for the reported use of 90s on the Coatbridge – Daventry intermodals I can say one thing for sure – that is not going to lead to the demise of Freightliner’s 70s. There are only 2 diagrams and 1 of them is often a 66.

 

[TimboM]

Colas have just bought the two 67s from DB Cargo too haven't they? Can't see them wanting FL's 70s unless they had major expansion plans.

I'm thinking this speculation is just that!!

 

[Bertie the bus]

I don't think there is speculation Colas will be taking Freightliner's 70s. A one liner from somebody who posts one liners on hundreds of threads doesn't amount to speculation.

There are reports 90s will be taking over the Coatbridge - Daventry intermodals and there is speculation Freightliner aren't happy with their 70s. It does appear to be a fact that a number of them spend a considerable amount of time at Midland Road but whether they ditch them remains to be seen.

 

[TimboM]

I don't think there is speculation Colas will be taking Freightliner's 70s. A one liner from somebody who posts one liners on hundreds of threads doesn't amount to speculation.

There are reports 90s will be taking over the Coatbridge - Daventry intermodals and there is speculation Freightliner aren't happy with their 70s. It does appear to be a fact that a number of them spend a considerable amount of time at Midland Road but whether they ditch them remains to be seen.

I was referring to the overall thread/original post, not the Colas bit specifically. Does seem there are some rumblings about the 70s though. Time will tell I guess...!

 

[CosherB]

I think he was just listing their older locos - no point in suggesting replacing 70s with other 70s is there?

Obviously not ..... although all of the listed heritage stock is not in mainline service (particularly the 56s).

Here's some special Friday froth ..... Colas ditch the 60s and 66s (total of 15) and take on FL's 19 Class 70s.

 

[palmersears]

It does appear to be a fact that a number of them spend a considerable amount of time at Midland Road but whether they ditch them remains to be seen.

I have seen postings elsewhere that this is because they do not have the required knowledge amongst their maintainence teams to undertake works as quickly as with the 66s (which is to be expected in my opinion). This, coupled with a longer wait for parts and a downturn in current FL workload, means that most of their fleet of 70s are enjoying prolonged visits to Midland Road.

Take a pinch of salt with this, clearly.

 

[43096]

Could Colas buy the 70s off of Freightliner and then use them to replace some of the above?

No they couldn't, for the very simple reason that Freightliner don't own any 70s.

 

[Trainguy90]

I think we just need a new standard of loco that the freight sector agree on so you have the flexibility that we have with the 66, instead of some companies buying 70's while other buy new 66's, 68's and 88's
The mainline passenger companies are pretty much doing the same by having the 800-801's which I can imagine will appear on other lines than just the Western and East coast

 

[TimboM]

It is also reported Freightliner has given GBRf an end date for the Class 90 contract and is not prepared to extend any further, giving some credibility to the above traction change.

Maybe a complete coincidence but seems more of the sleepers have been GBRf 92 hauled this week. Last night 3 of the 4 main runs were 92-hauled, which I don't think has happened for some time. This includes 2 (92010/038) which I'm pretty sure haven't had the "modifications" at Brush to improve their reliability, which may indicate for whatever reason reduced availability of the FL 90s.

 

[Class 170101]

I understood some of the Class 86 / 90 Intermodal workings had been covered by Class 70s from Heavy Haul to allow Class 90s to be available for the sleeper contract.

Also weren't Clas 70s needed to be able to get freight over Lickey single handed? I thought 66s had to operate in pairs with the extra costs associated?

 

[Mordac]

Today's Railways 182 reports a source from Serco saying the 90 hire is due to continue "for a good deal longer." (p. 61)

 

[ABB125]

Also weren't Clas 70s needed to be able to get freight over Lickey single handed? I thought 66s had to operate in pairs with the extra costs associated?

Unfortunately, there's hardly any heavy freight left on this route, and I can't recall ever seeing a class 70 in the last few years.