Freight trains avoiding Manchester Victoria

[stephen rp]

Has this been aired?

Why do so many freight trains avoid Manchester Victoria? The bulk biomass from Liverpool Docks to Drax, the Merseywaste trains from Knowsley to Teesside...

It seems bizarre to take them through Warrington BQ to Hartford then via Altrincham to Stockport, cross all lines at Heaton Norris, then to Ashton Moss then head west to Miles Platting before heading in the right direction to the Calder Valley. I thought for pathing through Victoria but they do it at night.

And why are some of the biomass trains reversing at Tuebrook / Edge Hill rather than using the reinstated Olive Mount chord?

 

[Ash Bridge]

Has this been aired?

Why do so many freight trains avoid Manchester Victoria? The bulk biomass from Liverpool Docks to Drax, the Merseywaste trains from Knowsley to Teesside...

It seems bizarre to take them through Warrington BQ to Hartford then via Altrincham to Stockport, cross all lines at Heaton Norris, then to Ashton Moss then head west to Miles Platting before heading in the right direction to the Calder Valley. I thought for pathing through Victoria but they do it at night.

And why are some of the biomass trains reversing at Tuebrook / Edge Hill rather than using the reinstated Olive Mount chord?

Could Miles Platting bank be the reason as these huge biomass trains are loaded going in that direction?

 

[Moonshot]

rest assured there are plenty of freight trains going through Victoria. They are a bit of a pain when we are waitng ( I m Northern traincrew ) outside for a path to be cleared because of a freight train trundling through.

 

[WatcherZero]

Yes, passenger trains often have to queue for an available platform, sending a freight through would reduce capacity even further.

 

[Geeves]

It also depends on what time the freight is timed to pass too. As has been said you can forget anything getting through Victoria be it ECS, Light engine or freight during the peaks, every platform will be full with trains waiting on the east and west ends.

The Wilton to Kirkby waste train has been going west bound through Vic the last few weeks. The Bio mass train comes through west bound too.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

And they want to run more TPE services thru vicc...

 

[mwmbwls]

Has this been aired?

Why do so many freight trains avoid Manchester Victoria? The bulk biomass from Liverpool Docks to Drax, the Merseywaste trains from Knowsley to Teesside...

It seems bizarre to take them through Warrington BQ to Hartford then via Altrincham to Stockport, cross all lines at Heaton Norris, then to Ashton Moss then head west to Miles Platting before heading in the right direction to the Calder Valley. I thought for pathing through Victoria but they do it at night.

And why are some of the biomass trains reversing at Tuebrook / Edge Hill rather than using the reinstated Olive Mount chord?

Loaded Drax biomass trains have to be banked up from the docks to Tuebrook where the banking locomotive then becomes the header out to Drax.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Why do so many freight trains avoid Manchester Victoria? The bulk biomass from Liverpool Docks to Drax, the Merseywaste trains from Knowsley to Teesside...
It seems bizarre to take them through Warrington BQ to Hartford then via Altrincham to Stockport, cross all lines at Heaton Norris, then to Ashton Moss then head west to Miles Platting before heading in the right direction to the Calder Valley. I thought for pathing through Victoria but they do it at night.

What surprises me is that the Northwich/Rochdale route is preferred to reach Todmorden (Hall Royd Jn) from Edge Hill, rather than via Wigan/Blackburn.
The latter would seem to have much more capacity, and with only 4 conflicting junctions to negotiate rather than 10 or so.
Next year the southern route will get tangled up with the increased TPE traffic routed via Victoria (between Ashton Moss and Miles Platting).

Some westbound empty trains do seem to use the direct route via Victoria.

 

[55018ballymoss]

The correct answer is Miles Platting bank being the problem. Without double heading or banking assistance the loaded train is kept away from attempting to climb the bank.

 

[30907]

What surprises me is that the Northwich/Rochdale route is preferred to reach Todmorden (Hall Royd Jn) from Edge Hill, rather than via Wigan/Blackburn.
The latter would seem to have much more capacity, and with only 4 conflicting junctions to negotiate rather than 10 or so.

I suspect the lengthy 2-track section from Wigan to Euxton is a major factor, and the (eastbound) gradients a second.

 

[Taunton]

I commented on this a while ago http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=2371179&highlight=altrincham#post2371179 , having been notably delayed on Altrincham to Stockport single track by the biomass empties coming the other way. It took the freight 3 hours between Newton Heath and Earlestown, about 20 miles apart by the direct route. It doesn't have any power issues descending Miles Platting bank. It is empty and modern stock, so no braking concerns. It seemed to repeatedly get in the way of various other services whose path it crossed.

 

[Oxfordblues]

One of the anomalies of Privatisation was the provision of banking locos. BR had supplied bankers for all freight trains where required, notably at Bromsgrove for the Lickey Incline. Privatisation meant that each operator was required to provide their own locos. EWS allocated a 66 at Saltley for this purpose, but Freightliner and GBRf avoided the Lickey by routeing their trains via Hereford or Oxford.

In an ideal world there would be a common-user banker for the Miles Platting Bank, but nobody will pay for it, thus the circuitous routeings via Stockport.

 

[Taunton]

Privatisation meant that each operator was required to provide their own locos. EWS allocated a 66 at Saltley for this purpose

Believe it or not that is more efficient than the latter days of BR, when the Lickey bankers were Class 37 sent down from Gloucester if required.

However, back to the original discussion, we are still getting comments about a need for a banker UP the bank when the circuitous routing required is about a train which would be coming DOWN the bank.

 

[Geeves]

Its a nice idea to have a banking loco at Victoria but where would you stable it? There is only one siding and its in use 95% of the day so your banking loco might well be blocked in when you need it.

 

[30907]

However, back to the original discussion, we are still getting comments about a need for a banker UP the bank when the circuitous routing required is about a train which would be coming DOWN the bank.

Sorry, but the discussion started with trains heading West to East (using Brewery Curve to access the Calder Valley).

 

[Freightmaster]

I commented on this a while ago http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=2371179&highlight=altrincham#post2371179 , having been notably delayed on Altrincham to Stockport single track by the biomass empties coming the other way. It took the freight 3 hours between Newton Heath and Earlestown, about 20 miles apart by the direct route. It doesn't have any power issues descending Miles Platting bank. It is empty and modern stock, so no braking concerns. It seemed to repeatedly get in the way of various other services whose path it crossed.

To be fair, the above happened two years ago when the trains had not
been running for long - these days, the empty biomass trains do indeed
run via Chat Moss to avoid causing the very issues you describe.


MARK