Freight Train Derailment near Ely 14/08/17

[Class 92]

Anyone know if any EMT 156s/158s are stuck the wrong side of the block?

I saw an image taken at Norwich earlier today of two 158s in the sidings there, so imagine they're trapped. One of the units is 158780, not sure about rear one.

 

[ac6000cw]

I saw an image taken at Norwich earlier today of two 158s in the sidings there, so imagine they're trapped. One of the units is 158780, not sure about rear one.

It's only Ely - March that's blocked (not the whole East Anglian rail system), so I'd be surprised if they couldn't move them to Peterborough etc. if they really needed to. Some 158s 'overnight' at Norwich anyway (AFAIK), so I guess they may as well sit out the disruption there as anywhere else.

 

[bunnahabhain]

They'll be used for a half level of service running in fits and spurts but generally two trains every three hours supplementing the hourly GA service. Starting with the 0550 and then the 0752 (unit on hire to GA first).

 

[Freightmaster]

Any idea what 688Y (just west of Ely station) is...?

6L37 Hoo Junction to Whitemoor (a Colas operated departmental working)

...as it's been sat there since yesterday!!!

It's heading back from Ely to Hoo Junction tonight as 6O36



MARK

 

[shredder1]

I`ll be going through Sunday night Norwich to Manchester, hope its cleared by then

 

[High Dyke]

I`ll be going through Sunday night Norwich to Manchester, hope its cleared by then

This is the current info on NRE.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/169367.aspx

An initial estimate from Network Rail is for the line to reopen on Monday 21 August. This date is subject to change and you are advised to check before travelling.

 

[shredder1]

This is the current info on NRE.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/169367.aspx

Thanks mate, yes I read that on Journey Planner, hoping that it does change, time yet.

 

[Alfie1014]

Matters not being helped by defective points at Manor Park (presumably DM to I line) around Ilford flyover, 5 mph speed restriction pretty much decimated the evening peak out of Liverpool Street. GA saying likely to be similar disruption tomorrow, just adding to the woes of diverting all those liners via the GEML.

 

[dk1]

I saw an image taken at Norwich earlier today of two 158s in the sidings there, so imagine they're trapped. One of the units is 158780, not sure about rear one.

Always handy having spare 158s in the Jubilee sidings for GA to spot hire & timed nicely for Cromer Carnival.

 

[TheEdge]

Always handy having spare 158s in the Jubilee sidings for GA to spot hire & timed nicely for Cromer Carnival.

Something will need to help cover for 170270 which is trapped north of the derailment.

 

[dk1]

Something will need to help cover for 170270 which is trapped north of the derailment.

Assumed something was the wrong side after hearing 1350 Pbo-Ips was stopped in time. Would've thought a route conductor would've been sought down the ECML by now.

 

[Crossover]

6L37 Hoo Junction to Whitemoor (a Colas operated departmental working)



It's heading back from Ely to Hoo Junction tonight as 6O36



MARK

I think I spotted that one on RTT where it got to a point then ran back on itself, judging by the reporting locations and timings. Another freight did similar too I think

 

[ac6000cw]

Steve Hooker from Network Rail (Head of Maintenance Delivery) was on the local BBC East (west) News last night - iPlayer link, view from 08:55 onwards (it's only available for another 15 hours).

He was suggesting that since passenger trains have more sophisticated suspension (than freight trains) they would have been very much less likely to have derailed. So does this imply a track problem that was beyond the capability of the wagon suspension to deal with? It seemed an odd comment to make when immediately afterwards he said that NR was extremely keen to find out what happened i.e. that they didn't know at present.

 

[westcoaster]

Steve Hooker from Network Rail (Head of Maintenance Delivery) was on the local BBC East (west) News last night - iPlayer link, view from 08:55 onwards (it's only available for another 15 hours).

He was suggesting that since passenger trains have more sophisticated suspension (than freight trains) they would have been very much less likely to have derailed. So does this imply a track problem that was beyond the capability of the wagon suspension to deal with? It seemed an odd comment to make when immediately afterwards he said that NR was extremely keen to find out what happened i.e. that they didn't know at present.

Would that be cyclic top.

 

[edwin_m]

There have been several derailments over the last few years where a track twist fault combined with uneven loading of the wheels on a wagon caused either by twisted frames or by uneven loading of the wagon or containers. Either fault on its own was within spec or not far outside but in combination they could cause a derailment. Passenger trains are unlikely to have this sort of uneven loading.

 

[ac6000cw]

There have been several derailments over the last few years where a track twist fault combined with uneven loading of the wheels on a wagon caused either by twisted frames or by uneven loading of the wagon or containers. Either fault on its own was within spec or not far outside but in combination they could cause a derailment. Passenger trains are unlikely to have this sort of uneven loading.

I think (from memory of the accident report) that the cause of the previous Ely 'bridge wrecking' derailment was a combination of excessive track twist and out-of-spec wagon suspension.

 

[Chris M]

Is there scope for an RAIB class investigation into freight wagon maintenance? Almost every freight derailment they've reported on (which is almost all derailments they've reported on) seems to involve frame twist and/or poorly maintained suspension.

 

[hwl]

I'd like to see the containers weighed too as the number of over declared overweight is surprising...

 

[bramling]

Something will need to help cover for 170270 which is trapped north of the derailment.

170270 went via Hitchin today in the direction of Cambridge. As I write this it's between Hitchin and Letchworth.

Unusual to hear the sound of a commuter DMU in the platform at Hitchin, rarely if ever heard since the 1980s.

 

[peperami97]

I think I spotted that one on RTT where it got to a point then ran back on itself, judging by the reporting locations and timings. Another freight did similar too I think

Was at Ely last night and the Colas department train ran round itself around 8pm and a new member of crew wandered down to it a bit later, in preparation for heading to Hoo.

The other frieght that came up to Ely was a 66 loco sent to stress test the points near the accident, from Ipswich last night, that got as far as the goods loop and then discovered the possession which as a liner driver he wasn't allowed into.

So as we were leaving around 9 ish last night he pottered off back to Ipswich.

Ben

 

[XDM]

I'd like to see the containers weighed too as the number of over declared overweight is surprising...

How do you know the number overweight is surprising? Is the number published? Are axle loads routinely weighed in the same way hot axle boxes are detected? I have asked TOC colleagues but they are not in the freight sector. But we doubt if there is equipment on running lines to measure axle weight/wheel load.

 

[TheEdge]

170270 went via Hitchin today in the direction of Cambridge. As I write this it's between Hitchin and Letchworth.

Unusual to hear the sound of a commuter DMU in the platform at Hitchin, rarely if ever heard since the 1980s.

It did indeed, I've just prepped it for service and it's now sat in the middle road at Norwich

 

[theageofthetra]

I'd like to see the containers weighed too as the number of over declared overweight is surprising...

I would like to know how much difference it makes to say a wagon full of sand dry v wet after heavy rain parked in a siding all night.

 

[3973EXL]

How do you know the number overweight is surprising? Is the number published? Are axle loads routinely weighed in the same way hot axle boxes are detected? I have asked TOC colleagues but they are not in the freight sector. But we doubt if there is equipment on running lines to measure axle weight/wheel load.

You would be wrong.

There is different equipment that can detect temperature/wheel impact/axle loads.

Has been referred to in RAIB reports of freight train derailments.

 

[Dr Hoo]

There is now extensive (not to say 'universal') coverage of "gotcha" wheel impact comparators on regular freight routes.

Container weighing had also been greatly tightened up internationally in recent years, to ensure proper management of weight distribution on ships amongst other things.

 

[3973EXL]

I would like to know how much difference it makes to say a wagon full of sand dry v wet after heavy rain parked in a siding all night.

Sand is not usually a problem as you reach cubic capacity before maximum carrying capacity.

Water tends to leak out as well, through hopper doors or drainage holes in box wagons. Follow the trail of sand in the four foot from Dagenham to Acton.

Spoil with a high clay content could cause a problem. If stabled for a long period so that water could build up to make the wagon overweight (unlikely) it should be picked up on train prep.

Previous RAIB reports of container train derailments have been more concerned with uneven weight distribution in 40' containers than total weight.

 

[snowball]

Press release

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/feeds...rway-to-remove-derailed-freight-train-at-ely/

Wagons are being lifted off the track with a rail crane, as a major recovery operation gets underway at the site where a freight train derailed in Ely on Monday 14 August.

A rail crane was brought in overnight on Tuesday (15 August) so that work could begin to lift the 11 derailed wagons from the tracks. Each empty wagon weighs 11 tonnes, with the heaviest container including its contents weighing 106 tonnes and each one will be carefully lifted onto the undamaged track to be towed away. The train and the wagons that stayed on the track were towed away on Tuesday afternoon.

The recovery operation is expected to take a number of days and once complete, nearly ¼ mile of track needs to be replaced. The work is scheduled to complete over the weekend and the line is expected to be open on Monday. In the meantime, the line will remain closed and passengers are urged to check before they travel.

Simon Ancona, Network Rail’s chief operating officer for Anglia, said: “We have an army of experts and specialist teams who are working day and night to remove the wagons as quickly as possible. Once they are out of the way we can replace the tracks, carry out the necessary repairs, reopen the line and get passengers on the move again. We expect to be able to reopen the line on Monday. I’d like to thank passengers for their continued patience.”

The incident affects CrossCountry, East Midlands Trains and Greater Anglia passengers. Passengers are advised to check how their journey may be affected with their train operator, or nationalrail.co.uk

 

[GB]

Those numbers don't make much sense. To start with an empty FEA wagon is 21 tonnes not 11. Second, the plated weight for a 20ft or 40ft container is generally around the 31 ton mark.

Maximum load for an FEA is 61 tonnes.

 

[tsr]

Those numbers don't make much sense. To start with an empty FEA wagon is 21 tonnes not 11. Second, the plated weight for a 20ft or 40ft container is generally around the 31 ton mark.

Maximum load for an FEA is 61 tonnes.

Bogie weights used in error? Just a thought - not sure. Not that familiar with freight stock.

 

[edwin_m]

I'd like to see the containers weighed too as the number of over declared overweight is surprising...

the heaviest container including its contents weighing 106 tonnes

(from the NR press release)

I think you may be right with that! A 106 tonne container on its own would overload any wagon. Misprint or misunderstanding in the press office I presume.