Freight Train Breakdown at Shap 13.9.22

[yorkie]

It was indeed 4S43 which failed today and delayed me by 100 minutes; 4S43 being the very same train which failed and delayed me 4 (four) hours last Summer! Do DRS actually maintain their locos or just send them out and hope for the best?

How often have you been delayed by DRS failures?

For me, as far as I am aware, the answer is never. You must be very unlucky if it's happened often as they are a reliable operator.

 

[Toby268]

How often have you been delayed by DRS failures? For me, as far as I am aware, the answer is never. You must be very unlucky if it's happened often as they are a reliable operator.

From a worker on this route, I have had to be ferried back 4 times in a taxi since august last year, because of the Tesco train failing, 3/4 times on beattock summit. Recently, the response has been a lot better on the WCML north whenever a freight has failed though which is positive!

 

[Falcon1200]

Possibly one of the silliest comments I have seen on this forum! They are best performing operator every year https://www.directrailservices.com/drs-on-cloud-nine-after-golden-whistle-awards/

Your opinion might be different if you had been delayed on 1/6th of your most recent journeys from England to Scotland by the failure of the same train, as mentioned earlier here; Once by 245 (two hundred and forty five) minutes and in this incident, by 100 (one hundred) minutes). And if they are one of the most reliable operators..... it doesn't say a lot for the rest.

How often have you been delayed by DRS failures?

For me, as far as I am aware, the answer is never. You must be very unlucky if it's happened often as they are a reliable operator.

As I mentioned earlier, on Page 1 of this 2-page topic, I have been delayed on 1/6th of my most recent journeys from England to Scotland by the failure of this train; Once by 245 (two hundred and forty five) minutes and in this incident, by 100 (one hundred) minutes).

One thing worth mentioning in (very slight) defence of DRS is that 4S43 is authorised to run overlength, therefore when it does get into trouble there are very few places it can, eventually, be recessed to allow other trains to get past; In both the incidents affecting me, this was Penrith.

 

[XAM2175]

Your opinion might be different if you had been delayed on 1/6th of your most recent journeys from England to Scotland by the failure of the same train, as mentioned earlier here; Once by 245 (two hundred and forty five) minutes and in this incident, by 100 (one hundred) minutes). And if they are one of the most reliable operators..... it doesn't say a lot for the rest.

So you're unlucky, then. The only objective measure is how many times that particular train fails out of all the times it runs, not just the times it runs when you're potentially exposed to the effects of it failing.

Applying your rules I could say that ScotRail 156s are woefully unreliable because a full 50% of the times I've attempted to travel from Glasgow to Fort William the train's been cancelled due to a fault with the stock... but I've only ever made two attempts at doing it!

 

[Falcon1200]

The only objective measure is how many times that particular train fails out of all the times it runs, not just the times it runs when you're potentially exposed to the effects of it failing.

Perhaps, although being actually, not potentially, exposed to the effects of this train failing, twice within 12 journeys, is bound to affect one's opinion of the train and its operator.

And, as per below, my two occasions were by no means the only times this train has caused chaos on the WCML;

We were delayed on a trip from Penrith to Carlisle when the train broke down at Shap earlier this year. When it finally struggled into Penrith one of the Avanti staff commented that it was the Train of Doom- apparently, said train is notorious for having problems.

From a worker on this route, I have had to be ferried back 4 times in a taxi since august last year, because of the Tesco train failing, 3/4 times on beattock summit. Recently, the response has been a lot better on the WCML north whenever a freight has failed though which is positive!

So it appears to be a bit more than me just being unlucky!

 

[XAM2175]

So it appears to be a bit more than me just being unlucky!

I don't deny that, but that's on the strength of additional observations. It's not a conclusion that can safely be drawn from your anecdote alone.

 

[Falcon1200]

It's not a conclusion that can safely be drawn from your anecdote alone.

We are rather going round in circles now, but if the same train delays me twice, costing me hundreds of minutes of my time, in just over a year, no other conclusion can be drawn, by me at least. Perhaps those defending DRS have never been severely delayed by one, or more, of their trains?!!

 

[XAM2175]

We are rather going round in circles now, but if the same train delays me twice, costing me hundreds of minutes of my time, in just over a year, no other conclusion can be drawn, by me at least. Perhaps those defending DRS have never been severely delayed by one, or more, of their trains?!!

This is the part that's wrong, because it could have run perfectly well on every one of the other 363-plus days in that span of time. Your sample of experiences can't automatically be considered indicative of all the other runs you didn't experience.

It's only the addition of experiences from other people that helps build the picture, and even then it can't be taken for granted that some of the failures they experienced are not the same ones you did!

 

[Watershed]

We are rather going round in circles now, but if the same train delays me twice, costing me hundreds of minutes of my time, in just over a year, no other conclusion can be drawn, by me at least. Perhaps those defending DRS have never been severely delayed by one, or more, of their trains?!!

You can't draw conclusions from such a limited sample size. You might as well say "my ticket wasn't checked on 2 of 6 journeys, so I should be fine if I only buy a ticket two thirds of the time"!

 

[GB]

Just because it is the same service doesn’t mean it’s the same loco.

 

[Skiddaw]

Just because it is the same service doesn’t mean it’s the same loco.

True, but as I mentioned, on the previous occasion the Avanti staff at Penrith said the loco in question had form. Mind you, I know virtually nothing about locos.

What impressed us was the 'rescue' loco. It sped through Penrith with a great sense of purpose and obviously completed the mission in double-quick time because it sped back around 15 minutes later, followed (eventually) by the freight train. It was exactly like the Little Engine that Could.

 

[Falcon1200]

Just because it is the same service doesn’t mean it’s the same loco.

Don't think anyone suggested it was!

I just hope and pray that never again am I on a train leaving Euston 30 minutes after 4S43 is booked to pass Penrith (280 miles away), only to stand at Warrington and Wigan for upwards of an hour, same again at Preston where three trainloads of cancelled services board so that every seat and inch of space is occupied, stand again at Lancaster, and finally arrive into Glasgow over 4 hours late - All thanks to this blameless freight train! But if I do get delayed by it again, I shall certainly report here.....

 

[GB]

Don't think anyone suggested it was!

Then why are you complaining and suggesting a company isn’t serving their fleet correctly?

 

[Falcon1200]

Then why are you complaining and suggesting a company isn’t serving their fleet correctly?

Have you not read the details of the delays 4S43 has caused me, I thought I had explained pretty clearly (and more than once). Whether it was the same loco or not is totally irrelevant and frankly I could not care less, my concern is that this train has cost me, so far, 345 minutes of my time, grounds IMHO for a complaint.

 

[uww11x]

Have you not read the details of the delays 4S43 has caused me, I thought I had explained pretty clearly (and more than once). Whether it was the same loco or not is totally irrelevant and frankly I could not care less, my concern is that this train has cost me, so far, 345 minutes of my time, grounds IMHO for a complaint.

You'll be glad to hear 4S43 flew up Beattock today. The Overhead wires have cone down at Beattock more than once in the last few months causing bigger incidents. We also had the 325 failure which closed the line for a while. Avanti had the hot box which required skating. Then all the BESR's every time it rains. So yes 4S43 is villain all the time at Beattock. Nothing else ever happens

 

[Falcon1200]

So yes 4S43 is villain all the time at Beattock. Nothing else ever happens

As I spent 30 years as a railway Operations Controller, including 10 responsible for the WCML in Scotland, I do have some idea of what goes wrong! And I have certainly been delayed by other things in the last few years, including flooding and OLE down. But the fact remains that in the last 15 months the only serious delays have been down to the failure of this one train (not at Beattock BTW, in LNW Route).

 

[uww11x]

As I spent 30 years as a railway Operations Controller, including 10 responsible for the WCML in Scotland, I do have some idea of what goes wrong! And I have certainly been delayed by other things in the last few years, including flooding and OLE down. But the fact remains that in the last 15 months the only serious delays have been down to the failure of this one train (not at Beattock BTW, in LNW Route).

I trust you seen yesterdays events at Lockerbie, 4S43 not involved.

 

[Falcon1200]

I trust you seen yesterdays events at Lockerbie, 4S43 not involved.

Yes. And your point is?