Freight on the Railways

[zwk500]

No idea. But BR before it was sliced and diced use to transport vital spare parts across various parts of the country by using "Guard’s van" or similar areas on trains. These were emergency transfers of parts needed so that faulty systems could be fixed.

And also, at least up to the 1980s, some early morning passenger trains (typically the first train of the day), either an in-service passenger train or ECS movement, would transport Royal Mail post in the "Guard’s van" or similar area on trains. Typically this was from city stations to selected local stations that were some distance from the city. At the local station a Royal Mail van (small road van) would be ready for the arrival of the train. The sacks of mail would be transferred and it would the be taken to the local sorting (delivery) office.

In the 1980s we issued design details from the drawing office to the area teams by train using green OCS (on company service) labels. I'd go to the platform at Reading, usually No. 4 for westbound long-distance trains, and hand the package over to the guard, confirming that someone from the Area office would meet the train.

And you can see from these anecdote's just how staff- (or at least man-hour-) intensive these operations are

I think Red Star parcels may have also used the "Guard’s van" for some items.

Didn't some units have special cupboards/compartments near the driver's cab for Red Star?

I've still seen references to this since the introduction of the IETs.

ICRF was reported to have contracts for transporting goods on eight different passenger TOCs last year, I don't know for a fact that includes GWR, but it would be hard to not use IETs at all if there's that many passenger TOCs involved, so I think it is safe to assume this does happen on IETs.

Intercity Railfreight on board with eight operators

Utilising spare capacity on scheduled passenger services is the business model of Intercity Railfreight. How the company utilises that space, to the benefit of their…

www.railfreight.com

Interesting article, I knew there was odd freight about for it, but didn't realise there was a specific carrier. I thought it was all largely through the TOCs. I wonder what type of traffic it carries, aside from Lobsters.

 

[Ploughman]

Internal BR Mail and Packages was also to be found in the Guards van.
When I was at BREL York I occasionally stood in for the Works lorry driver. One of the daily runs was to collect the Internal mail from York Station trying not to scrape past the cars blocking the access to the trolleys loaded with parcels.
Some was mail, but some was spares destined to be fitted on a coach waiting for the part.
If a part was really urgent it was designated UVS Urgent Vehicle Standing and I would be given a Green All Stations Pass plus petty cash for a Taxi and of I went to a manufacturer or another works to either take a small part or to collect one for York.
Westinghouse at Chippenham, English Electric at Preston were frequent trips out and any works from Eastleigh to Craigentiny. The most awkward package was a rubber gangway end from Telford back to York trying to get a train from New St at 17.00 with that rolled up moulding.
Going through Kings Cross was never a problem finding a seat. Flash the Green pass at the barrier of the next train asking to make a Internal phone call back to BREL then saunter off down the platform 5 minutes before the gate opened.

 

[MarkyT]

And you can see from these anecdote's just how staff- (or at least man-hour-) intensive these operations are

It wasn't far from my Western Tower office to platform 4. I could be there in 5 minutes, so it didn't waste much of my own time, and it was very secure, almost like a courier service, important for urgent drawings going out for the upcoming weekend work. I never had any go missing, though I never saw a guard log any such item submitted, and I don't know where he put them in his van. For the guard, however, I can see that such additional duties were a distraction from managing the train and its safe and timely dispatch.

 

[Tester]

It wasn't far from my Western Tower office to platform 4. I could be there in 5 minutes, so it didn't waste much of my own time, and it was very secure, almost like a courier service, important for urgent drawings going out for the upcoming weekend work. I never had any go missing, though I never saw a guard log any such item submitted, and I don't know where he put them in his van. For the guard, however, I can see that such additional duties were a distraction from managing the train and its safe and timely dispatch.

Reminds me of an interesting 'just in time' activity in the mid 1980s.

Some replacement interlocking racks for Watford PSB were wired in Stafford. One was needed for a Friday night changeover, but was running late. So I went to pick it up, and wire counted it in the guards van on the way back - it was installed that night.

Not any more!

 

[zwk500]

It wasn't far from my Western Tower office to platform 4. I could be there in 5 minutes, so it didn't waste much of my own time, and it was very secure, almost like a courier service, important for urgent drawings going out for the upcoming weekend work. I never had any go missing, though I never saw a guard log any such item submitted, and I don't know where he put them in his van. For the guard, however, I can see that such additional duties were a distraction from managing the train and its safe and timely dispatch.

And when the trains were late....

 

[Annetts key]

And when the trains were late....

For internal BR "services" it didn’t matter as much. Urgent items were put on the next available train. So if the trains were running late or out of sequence, whatever was the next service is the train that was used. And either you were informed at what time the train was expected (and at which platform) or you contacted the relevant person and found out yourself. In my case, we got our information from the PSB.

If the item was a spare part to deal with say, a signalling failure that was causing massive disruption, operations were advised. They then may arrange that that particular train was given priority if needed. Very occasionally, the driver would be instructed to stop at a particular signal box, crossing keepers box, signal or junction and the spare part would be passed to the team on site.

Oh, and also very occasionally, a train would be used to transport a small team (of two or three people) directly to site to deal with a signalling failure.

For non-urgent items, again, it wasn’t an issue.

And most of the time, this method was faster than a man with a van driving to go and collect said item. Which is what happened once the TOCs were no longer part of BR. Except it was worse, as often an entire two or three person team would have to go.

 

[Bald Rick]

Oh, and also very occasionally, a train would be used to transport a small team (of two or three people) directly to site to deal with a signalling failure.

Still happens now!

 

[Annetts key]

Still happens now!

Yes it does. But it in my experience, it became very difficult at first when the TOCs were privatised. Things have improved since then.

 

[Penmorfa]

Not sure about the autonomous driving, but automation of the box transfer handling process to be swift, reliable, and affordable, even at small terminals is very important, such that more and smaller exchange terminals can be used. I can see demountable boxes replacing remaining vans for most traffic, perhaps some with side door access for rail platform loading while a container is wagon mounted. Niches for specialist wagons will remain for bulk trainloads of solids and liquids. The train driver would remain as the supervisor for these processes and of the train in motion, although, like some passenger trains today, freight locos could plausibly use 'ATO' tech to actually drive optimally without constant human input once dispatched from a terminal. I'd still want a well-trained operator up front, keeping an eye on all that tech and the unrolling route in front, able to intervene quickly when something goes awry in the dead of night and the middle of nowhere.

Surely twistlocks would still need to be secured by someone on the ground?

 

[Dr Hoo]

Surely twistlocks would still need to be secured by someone on the ground?

Many wagon designs have spigots rather than twist locks anyway. But obviously the train will still have to be examined and consisted, etc.

 

[zwk500]

Surely twistlocks would still need to be secured by someone on the ground?

Isn't the whole point of twistlocks that they're self securing by design? I thought they normally need manual intervention to release, so they are more likely to have a right-side failure whereas if it was the other way round wrong-side failures would be quite high risk.