Freight on the CTRL - not shown in WTT?

[_Henry_]

Hi All,

I'm trying to find the freight trains that are timetabled to use the CTRL. I started by looking in the Working Timetable (WTT) at the trains leaving Eurotunnel, that is by looking at WA07, however, it doesn't seem to show any freight trains. I must be missing something/looking at the wrong timetable because freight trains do use the CTRL. I have summarised my problem below.

WA07 covers the HS1 route from St Pancras to the Eurotunnel Boundary, therefore, it should show the freight trains that are timetabled to use the Eurotunnel as they come out of the Eurotunnel Boundary. However, all the trains are listed with timing loads 395 (domestic Javelin high-speed trains) or 373 (Eurostar's international rolling stock) - and I can't see any loco hauled freight trains? In addition, Dollands Moor freight terminal isn't shown in the timetable.

I was in fact trying to find the timetable of CTRL freight trains that use the Maidstone East Line via Maidstone East. So again, I went to the WTT for this section of track, WA03 Swanley to Ashford, but again I couldn't identify any freight trains from the CTRL using this as there were no loco hauled trains (except for the Belmond Orient Express) to Folkestone/Gillingham.

I don't know what I've done wrong but I am sure CTRL freight trains are coming up via the Maidstone East Line - afterall NR's Kent Area Route Study (2017) labels it the 'Channel Tunnel Core Route' for freight. Unless all freight using the CTRL is now using HS1 to Barking and the NLL?

Cheers!

 

[StephenHunter]

Might it not be shown for security reasons?

 

[pdeaves]

Table WK02 may help; there are some specific freight tables.

 

[Freightmaster]

I'm trying to find the freight trains that are timetabled to use the CTRL. I started by looking in the Working Timetable (WTT) at the trains leaving Eurotunnel, that is by looking at WA07, however, it doesn't seem to show any freight trains....

I was in fact trying to find the timetable of CTRL freight trains that use the Maidstone East Line via Maidstone East. So again, I went to the WTT for this section of track, WA03 Swanley to Ashford, but again I couldn't identify any freight trains...

Is there any particular reason that you are referring to WTTs rather than simply looking at the relevant timing points on RTT?



MARK

 

[Romsey]

Freight traffic via CTRL is spasmodic (or used to be when I was last involved) and probably only runs special traffic outside Eurostar hours.

Neil

 

[_Henry_]

Thanks for your help! Yes, the WTT WK02 is very useful. I didn't use RTT as it was difficult to use so prefer WTT. However, the WTT is very confusing because if you are interested in all the trains going via Maidstone East you have to look at two timetables simulatenously. On the one hand you have to look at the WA03 for passenger trains and then look at WK02 for freights.

Very confusing - I assumed there would just be one WTT for each line.

 

[DidcotDickie]

Have you tried clicking your way through this lot? Hint: it's all freight.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/XLM/2020-01-06/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

 

[Freightmaster]

Thanks for your help! Yes, the WTT WK02 is very useful. I didn't use RTT as it was difficult to use so prefer WTT. However, the WTT is very confusing because if you are interested in all the trains going via Maidstone East you have to look at two timetables simulatenously.

I have to admit that I'm a bit confused here - in your original post you explained that you were trying
to find out about freight movements "timetabled to use the CTRL", which for clarification is the dedicated
High Speed line which runs from the Channel Tunnel to St.Pancras and is used by a handful of freight
services running between Dagenham and Dollands Moor.

But then you mentioned Maidstone East, which is not on the CTRL, so are you actually trying to find out
timings for both lines or just the Maidstone East line?

If you can be more specific as to exactly what you you would like to find out,
it's far more likely that someone will be able to assist you.




MARK

 

[_Henry_]

Apologies, I want to find all the freight trains that travel from Ashford through Maidstone East. I assumed most of these trains would have come from the CTRL - hence my earlier questions - but, I may be wrong?

 

[Freightmaster]

Apologies, I want to find all the freight trains that travel from Ashford through Maidstone East.

In that case, the most appropriate timing point is Charing - here is an RTT listing for tomorrow:

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/CHG/2020-01-08/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=freight

But please be aware that the vast majority of "timetabled" freight on that line rarely/never runs,
and in particular, it's rare to see any movements between 9am and 8pm on a weekday.




MARK

 

[_Henry_]

In that case, the most appropriate timing point is Charing - here is an RTT listing for tomorrow:

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/CHG/2020-01-08/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=freight

But please be aware that the vast majority of "timetabled" freight on that line rarely/never runs,
and in particular, it's rare to see any movements between 9am and 8pm on a weekday.




MARK

Thanks for that Mark. I am now trying to work my head around RTT. If the WTT says 'Q', how do you know if the train will run or not? How do you know that very few freight trains actually use the route from Ashford International to Maidstone East?

 

[trainmania100]

Q paths will show as activated if they're likely to run.

Freight may use the HS1 line as well.
Here's Ashford west junction for hs1 today. There's a STP 0Z27 light 92 to ripple lane today
https://live.rail-record.co.uk/live.php?t=XIW&d=2020-01-14&f=on&w=on&o=on&s=on&x=on

 

[pdeaves]

Q paths will show as activated if they're likely to run

Note, likely to run, not necessarily will run.

 

[paul1609]

In that case, the most appropriate timing point is Charing - here is an RTT listing for tomorrow:

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/CHG/2020-01-08/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=freight

But please be aware that the vast majority of "timetabled" freight on that line rarely/never runs,
and in particular, it's rare to see any movements between 9am and 8pm on a weekday.




MARK

Does anybody know how much regular freight traffic there is through the Channel Tunnel? I'm a frequent user of Ashford International and I can't recall seeing any freight other than the occasional infrastructure train there for years.

 

[Freightmaster]

...how do you know if the train will run or not? How do you know that very few freight trains actually use the route from Ashford International to Maidstone East?

Because my full time job for the past 25 years (running a website called Freightmaster) requires me to be
able to extrapolate historical data to predict in advance how many freight trains are likely to pass a given
location on a particular day, which I then publish in timetable form - see my signature for details!!!



MARK

 

[Freightmaster]

Does anybody know how much regular freight traffic there is through the Channel Tunnel? I'm a frequent user of Ashford International and I can't recall seeing any freight other than the occasional infrastructure train there for years.

Further to my previous reply, there are still a few flows operating, such as:

- Ripple Lane to Dollands Moor (via HS1)
- Dollands Moor to Daventry
- Dollands Moor to Ditton
- Dollands Moor to Irvine
- Scunthorpe to Dollands Moor

...but almost all movements west of Dollands Moor occur between 9pm and 9am,
so to anyone visiting the area during the daytime, it will seem like there is no freight
traffic running at all!



MARK

 

[trainmania100]

Because my full time job for the past 25 years (running a website called Freightmaster) requires me to be
able to extrapolate historical data to predict in advance how many freight trains are likely to pass a given
location on a particular day, which I then publish in timetable form - see my signature for details!!!



MARK

I recommend freightmaster and it is worth the money.

Further to my previous reply, there are still a few flows operating, such as:

- Ripple Lane to Dollands Moor (via HS1)
- Dollands Moor to Daventry
- Dollands Moor to Ditton
- Dollands Moor to Irvine
- Scunthorpe to Dollands Moor

...but almost all movements west of Dollands Moor occur between 9pm and 9am,
so to anyone visiting the area during the daytime, it will seem like there is no freight
traffic running at all!



MARK

Very helpful thanks mark