Freedom Passes

[AM9]

I'm very conscious of the privilege it is to be in possession of an Aged Person's Travel Pass. Especially as here in Merseyside as in Greater London it allows free rail travel. But I don't feel guilty about it, nor do I think it would be a good idea to withdraw the benefit. Many people without it would rarely leave their homes, and hence become less fit, and prone to loneliness and depression; there must be a benefit to the NHS as well as general wellbeing. Many better off pensioners rarely use the pass anyway, preferring to drive: that is their prerogative, and it means their passes are no drain on public resources. However their existence means that many people will use public transport in preference to driving, which also has benefits: less pollution and congestion; as drivers get older and more doddery the less they are let loose on public roads the better.

There are strong arguments for similar passes for the unemployed and young people, but taking them away from pensioners isn't going to result in these groups being given them instead.

My sentiment exactly, (see my post #15 in this thread). I don't get an enhanced bus pass, just the standard ENCTS. When I travel to London though, instead of wasting space in the already overcrowded St Albans station car parks, I use my pass on buses to and from the station. Younger drivers should be very careful of what they wish for.
I still pay about £18 for an off-peak Travelcard/Boundary card, which is more than the anytime Travelcard rate for an annual season ticket.
I reality, the actual cost to the public purse per travelcard is not as much as some imagine. Not every pensioner spends every day travelling as far as possible, especially in the winter. If they didn't travel at all though, the bus services that they use, - many of them almost exclusively between the peaks, could well be withdrawn leaving the car as the only means of travel. So maybe hospital and other social needs would be provided at local government expense.
The young working population can rant as much as they like, but politicians will not listen to them until those young get that chip off their shoulders and instead, use their votes, rather than whine that "it doesn't make any difference"!

 

[brompton rail]

Broadly the same applies in my neck of the woods - we get half price train travel between Bedford and Elstree & Borehamwood, and between Sandy/Royston and Crews Hill/Hadley Wood on production of your bus pass. Not sure if a similar concession applies with London Midland though I think not.

I'm disappointed to learn that South Yorkshire no longer do rover tickets - I hope that the other metropolitan areas don't follow suit. West Yorkshire in particular is excellent, as is the Tyne and Wear one.

I'm sorry you got the impression that SYPTE don't offer a Day ticket - they do....
http://www.sytravelmaster.com/home_day_tickets
Valid on all buses, trams and trains in South Yorkshire, all day long. Available from staffed stations, major bus company drivers and tram conductors, though no longer purchasable in advance as a 'scratch off' ticket.

It seems that the ticket SY CONNECT+ DAY can be purchased from train conductors (possibly only Northern) as stated here...

"Tickets can be purchased from manned railway stations from the ticket office at the station (please note that tickets are
not available to purchase from ticket vending machines).

Tickets can be bought from the guard on-train ONLY if the station of origin is unmanned or the ticket office is closed.

If passengers travel from a manned railway station with an open ticket office without purchasing a ticket they will be
surcharged in accordance with TOC Rules and Customs or else National Conditions of Carraige for the Railway Industry
as is customary." (Conditions on SY Connect website)

Hope this helps

 

[Busaholic]

If someone turned 60 on 1st Jan 2017 they become eligible for ENCTS on 1st Jan 2023 so thats six years of iirc peak time tube travel.

Recall this age group is likely to have a senior level job with a final salary pension too.

Yes, and it particularly annoys me that so many members of the House of Lords on their way to collect their daily allowance can use a Freedom Pass to access Westminster Station.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

What a load of tosh. It's simple, OAPs deserve free travel full stop. As a 30 odd year old paying income tax and London council tax etc, I would be happy to carry on paying and even pay say £5-10 per year extra next year if there is a deficit, to help pay for my elders travel costs,

They should NEVER have to pay anything.

I absolutely agree about a free bus pass for OAPs everywhere, but feel that free train travel is difficult to justify, unless it is to apply throughout the country. I'm an OAP living purely on a state pension and have no savings, so I'm certainly not saying 'well, I can afford to pay so everyone should have to'.

 

[leytongabriel]

We need to look at the social value to - having an elderly population that is as mobile as possible is not only a good thing for their health and well-being but has huge savings ( quantified somewhere sorry I can't remember, poss Rowntree Trust) in terms of social services provision. It's one of those questions where the real value is key figure, not the just the cost. And no busman, most 6o year-olds are not in high-paying jobs, there has been a huge fallout from cost-cutting to take on younger staff and many baby-boomers are in part-time short-term employment just like people at the beginning of their working lives.

 

[higthomas]

A removal of the current ENCTS/Freedom Pass ridership would persuade many elderly to drive more and later into their retirement. Those that couldn't drive either financially or through a lack of a licence would have their freedom severely restricted, (hence the name 'Freedom Pass').
I'm not sure that other road users would appreciate the increase in the number of drivers who no longer retain sufficient basic skills and alertness for modern London traffic. Many younger drivers already have an attitude that their journey is more important than slower, older drivers anyway. This would have a greater impact in the outer suburbs where traffic flows are more prone to disruption, particularly around the main arterial routes into the city and their associated rat-runs.

Couldn't most of those arguments be made about those at all other stages of life? Why don't I get a bus pass to encourage me not to own a car?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Couldn't most of those arguments be made about those at all other stages of life? Why don't I get a bus pass to encourage me not to own a car?

Because most working people could afford a local monthly bus pass if they wanted one? They are far cheaper than running a car.


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[Dr_Paul]

The London Over-60s Oyster Card does not allow travel on many railway services (there is 24-hour availability on TFL Rail and Overground services) until 09.30, so that many over-60s who do work have to pay for their railway journey or go by bus or underground instead, and that those who don't work don't clog up the railways during the morning rush. Outside the rush hours, non-working over-60s are mainly using up spare capacity, filling seats that would otherwise be empty.

It would be an absolute vote-killer were any candidate for London Mayor to propose ending over-60s free travel. So no candidate will propose it. What might happen is a phased-in restriction, so that, say, those born in 1960 won't get their free pass until 2021, that is, when they're 61; those born in 1961 won't get one until they're 62; until the age for the free pass coincides with that for the Freedom Pass.

 

[PeterC]

If someone turned 60 on 1st Jan 2017 they become eligible for ENCTS on 1st Jan 2023 so thats six years of iirc peak time tube travel.

Recall this age group is likely to have a senior level job with a final salary pension too.

Anybody in a senior level job will have switched employers several times and dropped out of final salary schemes 20 or 30 years ago. The only people in the private sector still getting them are mid level staff who were just good enough to scrape through half a dozen redundency rounds unscathed but not good enough to get a better job elsewhere.

 

[AM9]

Couldn't most of those arguments be made about those at all other stages of life? Why don't I get a bus pass to encourage me not to own a car?

Assuming that you are qualified to drive, would you assess yourself better able to drive than many senior citizens in their '70s & '80s in respect of:

• acuity of vision?
• bodily strength/agility?
• hearing?
• reaction times?

 

[lobby ludd]

Greater Manchester, Tyneside, Northern Ireland, and Scotland also grant concessionary travel at age 60. In Greater Manchester this cover buses, trams, and trains. In Tyneside buses, trains (the Metro system), and the North/South Shields ferry. In Northern Ireland, buses, trains, and local ferries. In Scotland buses (local and long distance within Scotland) and ferries for island and peninsular residents (as for trains ? I don't know).

 

[Busaholic]

The London Over-60s Oyster Card does not allow travel on many railway services (there is 24-hour availability on TFL Rail and Overground services) until 09.30, so that many over-60s who do work have to pay for their railway journey or go by bus or underground instead, and that those who don't work don't clog up the railways during the morning rush. Outside the rush hours, non-working over-60s are mainly using up spare capacity, filling seats that would otherwise be empty.

It would be an absolute vote-killer were any candidate for London Mayor to propose ending over-60s free travel. So no candidate will propose it. What might happen is a phased-in restriction, so that, say, those born in 1960 won't get their free pass until 2021, that is, when they're 61; those born in 1961 won't get one until they're 62; until the age for the free pass coincides with that for the Freedom Pass.

The Freedom Pass has those same rail restrictions. I said in a previous post that you could gradually alter the availability age of the over-60 pass without withdrawing it from anyone who currently had it, which would be probably acceptable politically.

 

[philthetube]

Because most working people could afford a local monthly bus pass if they wanted one? They are far cheaper than running a car.


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unless you are many of the many unfortunates who have multiple operators. I looked to get rid of my car but discovered the bus would cost me £9 daily for a 9 mile round trip.

 

[higthomas]

Because most working people could afford a local monthly bus pass if they wanted one? They are far cheaper than running a car.

Many struggle to. On the other hand many who have a freedom pass don't...

Assuming that you are qualified to drive, would you assess yourself better able to drive than many senior citizens in their '70s & '80s in respect of:

• acuity of vision?
• bodily strength/agility?
• hearing?
• reaction times?

Presumably you are referring to people who have problems with all of those things such that they would fail a driving test medical. They would get a Freedom pass by virtue of being suitably disabled, and I don't in any way begrudge them that. If they are (in doctors opinions) able to drive, then they can drive or not drive as they see fit, just like those who are younger.