Thank you. Yes of course I will ensure I follow whatever is expected of me. I do pay the usual taxes etc, rent to support family, two of my student finance loans and credit card billsAs we're not expecting TfL to agree to only issue a warning, the response you suggested in post #1 should do fine as essentially acknowledging their letter. TfL will then get back to you about prosecuting you. If you're lucky and they're only considering the one incident then it's most likely that they will send you a 'Single Justice Procedure Notice', which means that the whole thing can be dealt with by post: essentially, you reply to that pleading guilty, and the court writes back telling you how much you have to pay, including a fine. But if they want to look at the previous times you did this as well (in the jargon, other offences 'to be taken into consideration') my understanding is that you will be sent a 'requisition' which says that you need to turn up at court. It's important that you go as if you miss a court appearance the magistrates can send the police around to arrest you (this does happen - my (former) neighbour was collected by the police for not turning up at court for a motoring offence). But again, once the case is over you will be told how much you have to pay including a fine.
The amount of the fine is based on how much income you have. So start gathering details of any earnings/benefits/student income/whatever that you get. If you can't produce this, the court will assume that you get a fairly good income - which will lead to a fairly high fine.
TfL does not make a profit - it's subsidised to the tune of millions of £ by UK taxpayers in London and across the country - that subsidy is reduced by the fares income people pay - so by not paying your fair share of fares you are effectively making everyone else pay more subsidy - so you are stealing from the rest of the population, which is how this is seen in general terms.I’d like to imagine this hasn’t impacted anyone but TfL in terms of loss of profit
Okay thanks all for your advice. Could someone kindly list out next things I can expect or anything else I need to add to my statement and expected outcomes please
If / when it gets to court and you complete the court forms correctly you have the chance to set out your income and expenditure, including these sorts of things, on the relevant form from the court and this gets taken into account when setting the level of the fine from the court, as I understand it. It is in your interests to complete that.Thank you. Yes of course I will ensure I follow whatever is expected of me. I do pay the usual taxes etc, rent to support family, two of my student finance loans and credit card bills
By found guilty you mean if I accept it (which I did in my letter fully anyway)? Regarding the record, won’t this then go away after a year? I know it’s the worse come but it’s horrible knowing itAs previously stated, TfL will prosecute you and, if found guilty, you will end up with a fine and a criminal record.
In the big scheme of things, it’s not the worst type of criminal record, but it’s still one you need to disclose appropriately.
This means that TFL have decided they are not going to issue a warning. Which is exactly what other people were saying further up the thread.Hello,
I received a reply and unfortunately not what I wanted to hear. They declined my letter asking them if I can settle out of court. Could anyone kindly advise what may be the next steps? Is it a notice letter? Will this fall into my records as it will impact future jobs and I’m extremely worried. If anyone could suggest anything I’d be grateful
Thank you for the detailed information. It is extremely stressful regardless. Can I ask what role were exempt from the Act?This means that TFL have decided they are not going to issue a warning. Which is exactly what other people were saying further up the thread.
TfL take a very dim view of the mis-use of non transferable passes, as they state in their reply to you. Given how they don't do out of court settlements, the next step is that you will get either a SJPN or a court summons - if TfL discover the whole year of pass abuse as per uptrend, it will almost certainly be a summons.
Expect a letter soon informing you that you must attend Lavender Hill Magistrates Court, which is where TfL's in person prosecutions are held. Usually this appears to be either a Monday or Thursday (from what people have reported on here). You'll be asked whether or not you want other offences taken into considerstion - which must be done in person - and you'll also have to plead either guilty or not guilty. Based on what you've wrote, you'll be guilty.
If you plead, or are found, guilty by the court then you'll need to pay: a fine (based on your income - if you have no income then there is a fixed amount); a surcharge (40% of the fine); court costs (usually either £250 or £375 for TfL); and compensation (the fare avoided). If you admit to other offenses that TfL have discovered (so fare evasion on other days as well as the day you were stopped) then those missed fares will be added to the compensation sum. Depending on exactly where you traveled and how long for, this could be very costly.
You'll also have a (low level) criminal record which, for most positions, will become exempt after 1 year from when you were convicted. However some roles are exempt from the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act and for those positions, you'll need to declare a conviction forever. You may also need to inform current employers of any convictions you receive. For more information about the impact of a criminal conviction, you should look at the charity Unlock.
There are other threads on here with more information about the court process itself - I'd recommend looking at those so you know what to expect in advance.
All of this assumes that TfL will prosecute, and issue a summons - which seems the most likely given the information in this thread.
Thank you for the detailed information. It is extremely stressful regardless. Can I ask what role were exempt from the Act?
Thank you - just to check I’m not clear if it includes corporate office with Officer titles? Like junior roles?The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 (Exceptions) Order 1975
This Order makes exceptions in the operation of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 which comes into force on 1st July 1975. The provisions of the Act affected are section 4(1) which relates to the way in which offenders whose convictions have become spent are to be treated and evidence...www.legislation.gov.uk
All of these.
Unlock is a chairty which can given you detailed advice about
sorry to ask again just because I’m unclear of the rules per say. If it’s spent after a year does this still show on DBS check? I work in corporate and looking to change jobs so I’m keen to know everythingThe Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 (Exceptions) Order 1975
This Order makes exceptions in the operation of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 which comes into force on 1st July 1975. The provisions of the Act affected are section 4(1) which relates to the way in which offenders whose convictions have become spent are to be treated and evidence...www.legislation.gov.uk
All of these.
Unlock is a chairty which can given you detailed advice about this.
Please explain what ‘working in corporate’ is.Thank you - just to check I’m not clear if it includes corporate office with Officer titles? Like junior roles?
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sorry to ask again just because I’m unclear of the rules per say. If it’s spent after a year does this still show on DBS check? I work in corporate and looking to change jobs so I’m keen to know everything
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
sorry to ask again just because I’m unclear of the rules per say. If it’s spent after a year does this still show on DBS check? I work in corporate and looking to change jobs so I’m keen to know everything
Officer level role/analyst role. No I’m not a member of a professional organisationPlease explain what ‘working in corporate’ is.
What job do you do (in plain language)?
Are you required to be a member of a professional organisation in your job?
I expect it will depend on your contract which you should read or your HR handbook. See what it says in that about declaring convictions.Officer level role/analyst role. No I’m not a member of a professional organisation
As a general rule, if you work in an office in the corporate world in an ordinary non-regulated profession the role will not be excluded. (Excluded here meaning "you have to declare even spent convictions")I expect it will depend on your contract which you should read or your HR handbook. See what it says in that about declaring convictions.
Or ask a union representative at your workplace.
This is pretty much bad news here. You shouldn't have sent that letter in my opinion as "anything you say can be used against you as evidence in a court of law", but no point in crying over spoilt milk. In criminal prosecutions there is a rule that to be convicted the fact that you committed the crime must be "beyond reasonable doubt". The criminal system is crude and has limited care for emotions, now if possible you should get any lawyer, even a free one, you can not afford to not be with a laywer, your case is complex and it's worth spending every penny on a lawyer than ending up screwing your life, but most importantly DO NOT LIE!!! It is the responsibility of TfL to prove you are guilty "beyond reasonable doubt". Of course, everything I said here is not to be considered legal advice as it may be wrong nor is this an offer/invitation for services, and I certainly have in the past have made mistakes and have probably made mistakes here. That letter already solidified the deal, you need to do damage control with a lawyer ASAP.Hello,
I received a reply and unfortunately not what I wanted to hear. They declined my letter asking them if I can settle out of court. Could anyone kindly advise what may be the next steps? Is it a notice letter? Will this fall into my records as it will impact future jobs and I’m extremely worried. If anyone could suggest anything I’d be grateful
I'm not sure on what basis you say the case is complex. The op was stopped at the station having exited by using a freedom pass and have not been in possession of a valid ticket. This is not complex.This is pretty much bad news here. You shouldn't have sent that letter in my opinion as "anything you say can be used against you as evidence in a court of law", but no point in crying over spoilt milk. In criminal prosecutions there is a rule that to be convicted the fact that you committed the crime must be "beyond reasonable doubt". The criminal system is crude and has limited care for emotions, now if possible you should get any lawyer, even a free one, you can not afford to not be with a laywer, your case is complex and it's worth spending every penny on a lawyer than ending up screwing your life, but most importantly DO NOT LIE!!! It is the responsibility of TfL to prove you are guilty "beyond reasonable doubt". Of course, everything I said here is not to be considered legal advice as it may be wrong nor is this an offer/invitation for services, and I certainly have in the past have made mistakes and have probably made mistakes here. That letter already solidified the deal, you need to do damage control with a lawyer ASAP.
What’s complicated about this case? Can you elaborate.This is pretty much bad news here. You shouldn't have sent that letter in my opinion as "anything you say can be used against you as evidence in a court of law", but no point in crying over spoilt milk. In criminal prosecutions there is a rule that to be convicted the fact that you committed the crime must be "beyond reasonable doubt". The criminal system is crude and has limited care for emotions, now if possible you should get any lawyer, even a free one, you can not afford to not be with a laywer, your case is complex and it's worth spending every penny on a lawyer than ending up screwing your life, but most importantly DO NOT LIE!!! It is the responsibility of TfL to prove you are guilty "beyond reasonable doubt". Of course, everything I said here is not to be considered legal advice as it may be wrong nor is this an offer/invitation for services, and I certainly have in the past have made mistakes and have probably made mistakes here. That letter already solidified the deal, you need to do damage control with a lawyer ASAP.
Yes, I think you have.I certainly have in the past have made mistakes and have probably made mistakes here
A lawyer would be a completely unnecessary expense as it wouldn’t change the outcome in any way.This is pretty much bad news here. You shouldn't have sent that letter in my opinion as "anything you say can be used against you as evidence in a court of law", but no point in crying over spoilt milk. In criminal prosecutions there is a rule that to be convicted the fact that you committed the crime must be "beyond reasonable doubt". The criminal system is crude and has limited care for emotions, now if possible you should get any lawyer, even a free one, you can not afford to not be with a laywer, your case is complex and it's worth spending every penny on a lawyer than ending up screwing your life, but most importantly DO NOT LIE!!! It is the responsibility of TfL to prove you are guilty "beyond reasonable doubt". Of course, everything I said here is not to be considered legal advice as it may be wrong nor is this an offer/invitation for services, and I certainly have in the past have made mistakes and have probably made mistakes here. That letter already solidified the deal, you need to do damage control with a lawyer ASAP.
It may be that the conviction does not ever show on a DBS check. Whether it shows or not does not change any contractual obligation you may have agreed to to inform your employer if you are charged with or convicted of a crime - only you can know whether you agreed to that, by looking at your contract and any employee handbook incorporated into the contract.sorry to ask again just because I’m unclear of the rules per say. If it’s spent after a year does this still show on DBS check? I work in corporate and looking to change jobs so I’m keen to know everything
Thank you for this - the earlier message was worrying to read and the advice to not send a letter when they asked me to is incorrect advise. Since I am waiting for the next procedure as they only responded to my letter, i know there is chance they will want me to pay but I cannot understand why they can’t just send me an SJPN (is that not an out of court settlement?). Likewise, taking me to court is surely unnecessary since I’ve been corporative all throughout from the start. Because it was my dads pass that I used after work during peak hours I’m not sure what they may even ask or how to respond as I don’t want to bring anyone else into thisWhat’s complicated about this case? Can you elaborate.
TfL take the vast many of evasion cases to court. We know that from many others on here. Their policy makes that clear.
IMHO there was never much prospect of this case avoiding court and getting a warning. I don’t recall the op indicating what mitigating factors in relation to TfLs stated policy gave reason / excuse for the evasion. It’s just going to be another case similar to lots of others that get prosecuted that week I would think.
The OP was caught using a pass they were not entitled to. If it goes to court I can’t see anything other than a guilty verdict being passed. If the op pleads guilty then they will benefit from a reduced fine. I’d exit would be all over in a matter of a few minutes. Surely nothing complicated in any of this. We see cases of people mis using freedom passes in London pretty much every week or so on this forum that don’t seem very different to this one.
The OP simply now needs to prepare for what to expect in the court process (or the simpler SJPN process if that’s used) as well as establish what to do ref their employment in terms of declaring conviction.
I’m not sure spending best part of £600 to £1k on solicitor now is going to make a big difference, but if the op has the money and wishes to do that then we can share information on specialist firms to get quotes from.
But unless the op has a senior job in finance or medicine for example, or plans to get one soon, I don’t think a conviction for fare evasion in London is going to ‘screw your life’ - and if the op is in those careers they can afford a solicitor already I would think, rather than rely on advice on a web forum.
I hope your post isn’t unnecessarily worrying to the OP. I think they know what they’ve done is a serious matter.
I cannot understand why they can’t just send me an SJPN
(is that not an out of court settlement?)
taking me to court is surely unnecessary since I’ve been corporative all throughout from the start
Once it’s been paid I don’t have to declare this right?