Freedom pass misuse

[wkidd]

I’ve read a few other similar incidents on the forum, and I’ve also unfortunately used my mothers freedom pass which was confiscated at the barrier in London. I willingly gave it up, admitted it shouldn’t be used etc, was compliant. In a slight panic, I said I had accidentally picked it up on that day by accident instead of my Oyster card (as she is staying with me at the moment) and that it was the first time using it but this is untrue. I have been using it for some time.

My question is whether, when I receive the letter from TFL, I should volunteer any further information about other past usage or just be apologetic, accept my guilt, and either await prosecution hopefully under the relevant bye law or request that they settle (unlikely).

If I say nothing about other past incidents but they then investigate and find a history/pattern is this worse than admitting past usage in the first place? I saw some advice here saying just go along with what they say, don’t volunteer anything, admit your guilt about the specific incident, and move on, which is what I’m leaning towards but I’m just a bit worried about any identification of historic usage, and what potential impact that may have.

Any advice welcome

 

[30907]

My question is whether, when I receive the letter, I should volunteer any further information about other past usage or just be apologetic etc, and just accept my guilt, and either await prosecution hopefully under a bye law or request that they settle (unlikely). If I say nothing about other past incidents but they then investigate and find a history, is this worse than admitting past usage in the first place?

From past cases, you can expect TfL to take you to court for travel without a valid ticket on the occasion you were caught. Not an absolute guarantee of course!

It is more difficult for them to prove what you did on other occasions, and my impression is that they think a (relatively) small fine is enough of a deterrent.

 

[John R]

I think you need to see what the letter says when it arrives (as no doubt it will). If it only mentions the one incident then there is no need to incriminate yourself by disclosing other offences, but it they ask, then you should be truthful in your answer. It's very likely that they will look at previous usage of the pass, and if there is a pattern of use that suggests misuse then I suspect they will raise that with you.

Hopefully you have told your mother of the situation you are in?

 

[wkidd]

My understanding is that the initial letter is fairly generic and I wouldn’t expect it to mention anything about past instances (unless I’m mistaken?) - I’ve seen a few of the letters posted and they all look pretty generic.

I’m expecting to be prosecuted and I accept that if that happens, as I admit I am guilty, and yes, very naive and stupid. I understand if I’m prosecuted under the bye law though I will have a record but that it is considered spent straight away, or at worse 12 months, so won’t need to be disclosed, which puts me at some ease. However really I just don’t want to make things worse, either by admitting to things I needn’t, or not admitting to things I should.

I will tell mum, although she is aware of it being used already. It was her idea in fact (parents don’t always give out the best advice!).

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

TfL take misuse of Freedom Passes very seriously.

They will send you a verification letter which typically takes a couple of weeks to arrive. This letter will ask you to confirm or deny the offence and will ask you to give any mitigating factors. It is extremely important that you reply to this letter. Responses to the letter are given 'under caution' i.e. 'you do not have to say anything but it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely on in court.' TfL has three choices:

1. Drop the case altogether
2. Prosecute you for fare evasion (highly likely to be a prosecution under the TfL Bylaws)
3. Give you a final warning

TfL don't normally offer out of court settlements, which we often see with National Rail operators. I would expect them to persue a prosecution under the TfL Bylaws where misuse of a Freedom Pass is detected but there is always a chance that you might get lucky. If you are prosecuted (or are found guilty after pleading not guilty) then I would expect you to pay:

- A fine based on your weekly income (normally discounted by a third if you plead guilty at the earliest opportunity)
- A surcharge of 40% of the value of the fine
- A contribution towards TfL's costs (notmally around £150)
- Compensation to TfL for the fares avoided

Bylaw convictions aren't normally recorded on thr Police National Computer and therefore won't normally show on a DBS check. That said, we would always advise being honest if you are asked if you have been found guilty of a criminal offence. Generally speaking a Bylaw conviction for a railway ticketing matter would not harm future career prospects.

Feel free to post a copy of the Verification Letter when it arrives (but do redact any personal details from it before posting it) along with your draft reply to it and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

It might also be worth having a reasd of TfL's Revenue Enforcement and Prosecutions Policy:
https://content.tfl.gov.uk/revenue-enforcement-and-prosecutions-policy.pdf

 

[wkidd]

Welcome to the forum!

TfL take misuse of Freedom Passes very seriously.

They will send you a verification letter which typically takes a couple of weeks to arrive. This letter will ask you to confirm or deny the offence and will ask you to give any mitigating factors. It is extremely important that you reply to this letter. Responses to the letter are given 'under caution' i.e. 'you do not have to say anything but it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely on in court.' TfL has three choices:

1. Drop the case altogether
2. Prosecute you for fare evasion (highly likely to be a prosecution under the TfL Bylaws)
3. Give you a final warning

TfL don't normally offer out of court settlements, which we often see with National Rail operators. I would expect them to persue a prosecution under the TfL Bylaws where misuse of a Freedom Pass is detected but there is always a chance that you might get lucky. If you are prosecuted (or are found guilty after pleading not guilty) then I would expect you to pay:

- A fine based on your weekly income (normally discounted by a third if you plead guilty at the earliest opportunity)
- A surcharge of 40% of the value of the fine
- A contribution towards TfL's costs (notmally around £150)
- Compensation to TfL for the fares avoided

Bylaw convictions aren't normally recorded on thr Police National Computer and therefore won't normally show on a DBS check. That said, we would always advise being honest if you are asked if you have been found guilty of a criminal offence. Generally speaking a Bylaw conviction for a railway ticketing matter would not harm future career prospects.

Feel free to post a copy of the Verification Letter when it arrives (but do redact any personal details from it before posting it) along with your draft reply to it and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

It might also be worth having a reasd of TfL's Revenue Enforcement and Prosecutions Policy:
https://content.tfl.gov.uk/revenue-enforcement-and-prosecutions-policy.pdf

Thanks for this, and I will certainly post the letter redacted once received

What would you suggest re my specific question about admitting or not admitting to previous use of the card outside of the incident in question? Should I not volunteer any information until such a time as any evidence from a potential investigation they undertake is provided to me?

 

[Hadders]

Thanks for this, and I will certainly post the letter redacted once received

What would you suggest re my specific question about admitting or not admitting to previous use of the card outside of the incident in question? Should I not volunteer any information until such a time as any evidence from a potential investigation they undertake is provided to me?

The letter is likely to refer to the single incident where you were caught. TfL only need one incident to launch a Bylaw prosecution. I would not say anything else unless the letter specifically refers to additional incidents.

 

[wkidd]

The letter is likely to refer to the single incident where you were caught. TfL only need one incident to launch a Bylaw prosecution. I would not say anything else unless the letter specifically refers to additional incidents.

Ok, hopefully that’s the case.

I read elsewhere they could trawl through the history and spot other instances or trends. How likely do you think that is? Or given the one instance is enough for them to prosecute that should be sufficient?

 

[AlterEgo]

Ok, hopefully that’s the case.

I read elsewhere they could trawl through the history and spot other instances or trends. How likely do you think that is? Or given the one instance is enough for them to prosecute that should be sufficient?

They don’t usually bother. They know that almost nobody is unfortunate enough to be caught on the very first time they abuse the pass, and normally prosecute for the single offence which was detected.

 

[fandroid]

The history of use could influence how they deal with your mother's Freedom Pass. That is, when it gets returned to her. I don't know if we have experience of how severely they deal with the actual pass holder. As they seem to mainly rely on the byelaws, I don't think they take legal action against the pass holder.

 

[SuspectUsual]

The history of use could influence how they deal with your mother's Freedom Pass. That is, when it gets returned to her. I don't know if we have experience of how severely they deal with the actual pass holder. As they seem to mainly rely on the byelaws, I don't think they take legal action against the pass holder.

And this is likely to be problematic if the OP lets TfL know of the scale of the misuse, because if it’s over a sustained period it’ll be very difficult to claim the OP’s mother was unaware of what was happening

 

[wkidd]

Hi all

Received the letter today. It’s just the generic one that you will all have seen.

So, I’m intending to plead guilty. I’ll post a draft letter in here later today but if anyone has any general thoughts on content it would be appreciated. I’ll keep it minimal and concise I think but should I state reasons why I should only get a warning - ie first time offence, I’m a professional with a full time job, etc?

 

[John R]

Hi all

Received the letter today. It’s just the generic one that you will all have seen.

So, I’m intending to plead guilty. I’ll post a draft letter in here later today but if anyone has any general thoughts on content it would be appreciated. I’ll keep it minimal and concise I think but should I state reasons why I should only get a warning - ie first time offence, I’m a professional with a full time job, etc?

Why should being a professional with a full time job make any difference to how you are treated?

 

[Titfield]

Hi all

Received the letter today. It’s just the generic one that you will all have seen.

So, I’m intending to plead guilty. I’ll post a draft letter in here later today but if anyone has any general thoughts on content it would be appreciated. I’ll keep it minimal and concise I think but should I state reasons why I should only get a warning - ie first time offence, I’m a professional with a full time job, etc?

Without wishing to sound judgemental it is not a first time offence. It is the first time you have ben caught. Not sure that being a professional with a full time job has any bearing on the sanction applied. If anything it could be argued that as you are in employment (and therefore avoiding the fare was for monetary gain and not out of necessity) the sanction should be more severe than a warning.

 

[methecooldude]

Without wishing to sound judgemental it is not a first time offence. It is the first time you have ben caught. Not sure that being a professional with a full time job has any bearing on the sanction applied. If anything it could be argued that as you are in employment (and therefore avoiding the fare was for monetary gain and not out of necessity) the sanction should be more severe than a warning.

I was just about to reply, but you've hit the nail on the head there...

 

[Wolfie]

The history of use could influence how they deal with your mother's Freedom Pass. That is, when it gets returned to her. I don't know if we have experience of how severely they deal with the actual pass holder. As they seem to mainly rely on the byelaws, I don't think they take legal action against the pass holder.

"when" could easily be "if", particularly if there is evidence of long-term misuse.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Sep 2023 ==

And this is likely to be problematic if the OP lets TfL know of the scale of the misuse, because if it’s over a sustained period it’ll be very difficult to claim the OP’s mother was unaware of what was happening

Absolutely, hence my comment.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Sep 2023 ==

Without wishing to sound judgemental it is not a first time offence. It is the first time you have ben caught. Not sure that being a professional with a full time job has any bearing on the sanction applied. If anything it could be argued that as you are in employment (and therefore avoiding the fare was for monetary gain and not out of necessity) the sanction should be more severe than a warning.

Agreed. The OP needs to be aware that if he receives a conviction and is working in certain professions he will have to declare that to his employer/the professional regulator too.

 

[wkidd]

Why should being a professional with a full time job make any difference to how you are treated?

Fair enough

What is the usual suggestion of what to put in the letter? Just apologise?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Sep 2023 ==

Without wishing to sound judgemental it is not a first time offence. It is the first time you have ben caught. Not sure that being a professional with a full time job has any bearing on the sanction applied. If anything it could be argued that as you are in employment (and therefore avoiding the fare was for monetary gain and not out of necessity) the sanction should be more severe than a warning.

What would you suggest I put in the letter?

 

[AlterEgo]

Fair enough

What is the usual suggestion of what to put in the letter? Just apologise?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Sep 2023 ==



What would you suggest I put in the letter?

Given the chances of settlement for this sort of abuse are fairly low, I would probably go with an apology and offer to settle out of court. However, I’m afraid TfL do usually just prosecute for this kind of offence and they take a very dim view of freedom pass misuse.

Where TfL have settled in the past, this has usually involved the accused getting hold of a solicitor and having them correspond on their behalf.

 

[wkidd]

Given the chances of settlement for this sort of abuse are fairly low, I would probably go with an apology and offer to settle out of court. However, I’m afraid TfL do usually just prosecute for this kind of offence and they take a very dim view of freedom pass misuse.

Where TfL have settled in the past, this has usually involved the accused getting hold of a solicitor and having them correspond on their behalf.

My understanding is they don’t ever settle out of court, but they may decide to just give a warning (unless that’s what you mean by settling out of court)

 

[Wolfie]

My understanding is they don’t ever settle out of court, but they may decide to just give a warning (unless that’s what you mean by settling out of court)

Settlements out of Court normally involve coming to an agreement, likely involving payment of a (hefty) sum of money, instead of pursuit of a prosecution.

 

[wkidd]

So my letter so far is:

Apology, acknowledgment that it is a criminal offence and a serious matter. Accepting responsibility.

Acknowledging why these passes exist and that the general public fund them through taxes. Stating that I have not been in trouble with the law in the past.

Offer to pay reasonable and admin costs. Request to be handled without court action, which could have impact on my career and family. Acknowledging they do not have to take these factors into account but nonetheless to still consider them

Reiterating that this is a serious matter and request to settle privately without court action.

Thoughts? Anything else I’m missing or should expand on/remove?

 

[TheJester]

Perhaps mention you won’t do it again and will buy appropriate tickets/passes going forward?

 

[Ahmed2]

So my letter so far is:

Apology, acknowledgment that it is a criminal offence and a serious matter. Accepting responsibility.

Acknowledging why these passes exist and that the general public fund them through taxes. Stating that I have not been in trouble with the law in the past.

Offer to pay reasonable and admin costs. Request to be handled without court action, which could have impact on my career and family. Acknowledging they do not have to take these factors into account but nonetheless to still consider them

Reiterating that this is a serious matter and request to settle privately without court action.

Thoughts? Anything else I’m missing or should expand on/remove?

Hi just wondering what happened in this case? I’m dealing with a similar situation and would really appreciate knowing how you responded and what the overall outcome was.

 

[methecooldude]

Hi just wondering what happened in this case? I’m dealing with a similar situation and would really appreciate knowing how you responded and what the overall outcome was.

Please create your own thread, advice to one person may not be suitable to another

 

[Yazz]

Hi just wondering what happened in this case? I’m dealing with a similar situation and would really appreciate knowing how you responded and what the overall outcome was.

Hi, I just wanted an update regarding your case? I’m going thro a similar situation. How did it go?

 

[methecooldude]

Hi, I just wanted an update regarding your case? I’m going thro a similar situation. How did it go?

Please start your own thread, each case is different and advice to one may not be suitable advice to another