Freedom pass misuse - advice needed

[bakerbyday]

Hi all,

October last year I was caught using my mums freedom pass which I had been using to go to work. I was stopped at the station by 2 TFL staff members who took down my details and confiscated my mums pass. They said I would receive a letter in the post which I did and completed and returned it back to them. Last week I received requisition to attend court. It gives a full statement of what happened and all the times I used the pass which I have to sign. The options it gives is to attend court and plead guilty or plead not guilty. I of course will plead guilty as I know this was wrong and the consequences of my actions. I just need a little advice as this is quite scary. One of the documents I have to sign is offences to be taken into consideration.

it says the following:

1) if you plead guilty in person and are found guilty of any offences with which you have been charged you can, before any sentence is passed, admit all or any of the matters in the attached schedule and ask the court to take them into consideration. This in turn will result in NOT being subsequently changed within of these matters

2) To benefit from not being prosecuted for each of these offences. You must attend court in person to confirm that you do not wish to be prosecuted for those offences and that you were the person that made those journeys

3) The last point says that TFL will be requesting compensation for the journeys I did not pay.

It also asks me to fill out a form regarding my finances, as of last month I quit my job so I'm not working but can pay the fine.

Any advice would be great and if anyone has been in a similar situation and has already attended court can you please advise me what happens on the day. Is it also worth contacting a lawyer for advice?

Thank you so much!!

 

[30907]

1) if you plead guilty in person and are found guilty of any offences with which you have been charged you can, before any sentence is passed, admit all or any of the matters in the attached schedule and ask the court to take them into consideration. This in turn will result in NOT being subsequently changed within of these matters
2) To benefit from not being prosecuted for each of these offences. You must attend court in person to confirm that you do not wish to be prosecuted for those offences and that you were the person that made those journeys

Have they provided a list of occasions when they think you used the card?
Is it accurate as far as you can see?

3) The last point says that TFL will be requesting compensation for the journeys I did not pay.

So that should be the Oyster paper ticket fare for those journeys, which you can calculate. (Edited, see post #7.)

Others may be able to help on the court process, but I doubt it's worth spending money on a lawyer.

 

[bakerbyday]

Have they provided a list of occasions when they think you used the card?
Is it accurate as far as you can see?


So that should be the Oyster fare for those journeys, which you can calculate.

Others may be able to help on the court process, but I doubt it's worth spending money on a lawyer.

Thank you

Yes, they've provided an accurate list of all the times I used the pass. At the end of the list its given the total amount which I did not pay but will have to pay.

 

[Titfield]

Are you aware that if you go to court and either plead guilty or are found guilty you will pay:

1. A fine based on your income. (For those not working a notional income is used).
2. A victim surcharge.
3. TFLs costs.
4. The fares you should have paid but did not.

If you plead guilty at the earliest opportunity a discount off the fine is applied.

Given that you did use the freedom pass I very much doubt that consulting a lawyer will be of any benefit indeed will increase your overall costs.

 

[bakerbyday]

Are you aware that if you go to court and either plead guilty or are found guilty you will pay:

1. A fine based on your income. (For those not working a notional income is used).
2. A victim surcharge.
3. TFLs costs.
4. The fares you should have paid but did not.

If you plead guilty at the earliest opportunity a discount off the fine is applied.

Given that you did use the freedom pass I very much doubt that consulting a lawyer will be of any benefit indeed will increase your overall costs.

I'm planning on sending off the documents requested ASAP including financial information. As they have mentioned how much TFL are requesting, do you know if it is as simple as just paying the fines when I plead guilty.

 

[alholmes]

The figures quoted on the paperwork will just be the fares and TfL’s costs. The fine and victim surcharge will be determined by the magistrate on the day. I think for payment you are normally given approx. 28 days to pay after the court hearing.

 

[island]

So that should be the Oyster fare for those journeys, which you can calculate.

TfL will calculate compensation based on paper single fares, not Oyster.

 

[Puffing Devil]

The figures quoted on the paperwork will just be the fares and TfL’s costs. The fine and victim surcharge will be determined by the magistrate on the day. I think for payment you are normally given approx. 28 days to pay after the court hearing.

Technically, all monies (Fines, Surcharge, Cost, Compensation) are due on the day. Courts are pragmatic and will allow time to pay, or even pay in installments. You will have produced a "means form" to show your income and outgoings, they will use this as both the basis for the fine and any repayment proposal.

 

[30907]

TfL will calculate compensation based on paper single fares, not Oyster.

Thanks, post upthread corrected to avoid misleading future readers.

 

[island]

Technically, all monies (Fines, Surcharge, Cost, Compensation) are due on the day. Courts are pragmatic and will allow time to pay, or even pay in installments. You will have produced a "means form" to show your income and outgoings, they will use this as both the basis for the fine and any repayment proposal.

You are of course correct, but only in theory. Most Magistrates Courts no longer have fines offices to take payment in; it's almost invariably the practice that a collection order is made with 28 days to pay and the defendant is sent a letter with a link to pay online or a barcode to pay via convenience stores.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

Good advice has been given in this thread. Can you tell us exactly what offence you're being charged with?

 

[Puffing Devil]

You are of course correct, but only in theory. Most Magistrates Courts no longer have fines offices to take payment in; it's almost invariably the practice that a collection order is made with 28 days to pay and the defendant is sent a letter with a link to pay online or a barcode to pay via convenience stores.

Perhaps why I prefaced my reply "Technically"?

 

[island]

Perhaps why I prefaced my reply "Technically"?

Indeed, just wanted to expand on the point in case OP felt they needed to have a giant roll of readies on their way into court.

 

[bakerbyday]

Welcome to the forum!

Good advice has been given in this thread. Can you tell us exactly what offence you're being charged with?

Thank you.

The offence is that I did not enter a compulsory ticket area without having with me a valid ticket. It says contrary to the Bylaw 17(1) of TFL Railway bylaws made under paragraph26 of schedule 11 to the Greater London Authority Act 1999 and confirmed under section 67 of the Transport Act 1962

 

[Haywain]

The offence is that I did not enter a compulsory ticket area without having with me a valid ticket.

Did, rather than did not, I presume?!!

 

[bakerbyday]

Did, rather than did not, I presume?!!

Yes sorry DID*

 

[30907]

Thanks.

TfL routinely prosecute under the Byelaws, which is a lesser offence (but still an offence), even when they believe someone has offended many times.
I think you have already decided to ask for the extra times to be taken into consideration, and to pay the additional compensation TfL will be awarded?
This seems wise to me .

 

[bakerbyday]

Thank you everyone, is there anyone who has been through this whole process who can advise me how it actually goes in court including the ruling.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Do you have a Summons/Requisition or a Single Justice Procedure Notice? Perhaps you can post it with your details redacted?

With the latter you don't need to attend and the hearing is based on the case papers. With the former it may state that the court is prepared to deal with the matter in your absence, so long as you send in the required paperwork.

If you do need to appear, I'm happy to walk through what happens, though it will be from the other side of the bench.

 

[bakerbyday]

Do you have a Summons/Requisition or a Single Justice Procedure Notice? Perhaps you can post it with your details redacted?

With the latter you don't need to attend and the hearing is based on the case papers. With the former it may state that the court is prepared to deal with the matter in your absence, so long as you send in the required paperwork.

If you do need to appear, I'm happy to walk through what happens, though it will be from the other side of the bench.

Hi, it says I do need to attend if I'm pleading guilty and if I am not pleading guilty to provide further documentation and the hearing date will be changed

 

[Puffing Devil]

Your paperwork will give you the time and date to be at court. Arrive on time and check-in with the usher. Then wait. And be prepared to wait some more. You may be lucky and get called in with a minimal delay, though the legal process speed can be glacial. If you can, dig out a shirt, trousers and shoes to wear on the day – anything up from joggers and faded t-shirt is a bonus.

When you’re called in you’ll be shown into the witness box to identify yourself. The charges will be read by the prosecutor, and you’ll be asked to plead guilty or not guilty. With a guilty plea, the prosecutor will then summarise the offence – date, circumstances, etc. You’ll then be invited to speak in mitigation – anything you would like to say about the offences, offer an apology to the rail company, show some contrition.

The “bench”, which will be 2 or 3 Magistrates or one District Judge, may retire to consider the sentence, or they may discuss the matter quickly and quietly in the court.

You’ll be asked to stand and the sentence – most likely a fine in the absence of any criminal record – will be read out. Expect to pay a fine*, a victim surcharge, costs for the TOC and compensation for the fares evaded. You’ll be asked if you can pay the amount due immediately. Stand firm, be honest that you have lost your job and will struggle to pay. Ask for time to pay – ask if the bench will allow you to pay monthly for a year. There may be a little back and forth and pressure for you to pay more.

The fine and surcharge will be based on the income you declare on the “means form”. This will be taken off you when you enter the court or before the bench completes the sentence. Being unemployed works well for you as your income is small and the fine will be based on that.

The court will make a collection order – that allows the fines officer many options to recover the monies due if you fail to pay or keep to the agreement. The end game for this is jail, so keep in touch with the fines officer if there are any issues. They can be helpful, but a fine is a punishment. It’s not meant to be easy.

You’ll most likely be given a leaflet about paying your fine and shown the door.

 

[bakerbyday]

Your paperwork will give you the time and date to be at court. Arrive on time and check-in with the usher. Then wait. And be prepared to wait some more. You may be lucky and get called in with a minimal delay, though the legal process speed can be glacial. If you can, dig out a shirt, trousers and shoes to wear on the day – anything up from joggers and faded t-shirt is a bonus.

When you’re called in you’ll be shown into the witness box to identify yourself. The charges will be read by the prosecutor, and you’ll be asked to plead guilty or not guilty. With a guilty plea, the prosecutor will then summarise the offence – date, circumstances, etc. You’ll then be invited to speak in mitigation – anything you would like to say about the offences, offer an apology to the rail company, show some contrition.

The “bench”, which will be 2 or 3 Magistrates or one District Judge, may retire to consider the sentence, or they may discuss the matter quickly and quietly in the court.

You’ll be asked to stand and the sentence – most likely a fine in the absence of any criminal record – will be read out. Expect to pay a fine*, a victim surcharge, costs for the TOC and compensation for the fares evaded. You’ll be asked if you can pay the amount due immediately. Stand firm, be honest that you have lost your job and will struggle to pay. Ask for time to pay – ask if the bench will allow you to pay monthly for a year. There may be a little back and forth and pressure for you to pay more.

The fine and surcharge will be based on the income you declare on the “means form”. This will be taken off you when you enter the court or before the bench completes the sentence. Being unemployed works well for you as your income is small and the fine will be based on that.

The court will make a collection order – that allows the fines officer many options to recover the monies due if you fail to pay or keep to the agreement. The end game for this is jail, so keep in touch with the fines officer if there are any issues. They can be helpful, but a fine is a punishment. It’s not meant to be easy.

You’ll most likely be given a leaflet about paying your fine and shown the door.

Thank you very much, this has been really helpful.

 

[Yazz]

Hi all,

October last year I was caught using my mums freedom pass which I had been using to go to work. I was stopped at the station by 2 TFL staff members who took down my details and confiscated my mums pass. They said I would receive a letter in the post which I did and completed and returned it back to them. Last week I received requisition to attend court. It gives a full statement of what happened and all the times I used the pass which I have to sign. The options it gives is to attend court and plead guilty or plead not guilty. I of course will plead guilty as I know this was wrong and the consequences of my actions. I just need a little advice as this is quite scary. One of the documents I have to sign is offences to be taken into consideration.

it says the following:

1) if you plead guilty in person and are found guilty of any offences with which you have been charged you can, before any sentence is passed, admit all or any of the matters in the attached schedule and ask the court to take them into consideration. This in turn will result in NOT being subsequently changed within of these matters

2) To benefit from not being prosecuted for each of these offences. You must attend court in person to confirm that you do not wish to be prosecuted for those offences and that you were the person that made those journeys

3) The last point says that TFL will be requesting compensation for the journeys I did not pay.

It also asks me to fill out a form regarding my finances, as of last month I quit my job so I'm not working but can pay the fine.

Any advice would be great and if anyone has been in a similar situation and has already attended court can you please advise me what happens on the day. Is it also worth contacting a lawyer for advice?

Thank you so much!!

I just wanted to ask for an update of how it all went, I’m going through a similar situation myself. What happened, how much did they charge you and regarding court? Thanks

 

[bakerbyday]

I just wanted to ask for an update of how it all went, I’m going through a similar situation myself. What happened, how much did they charge you and regarding court? Thanks

My court hearing isn't until March and I haven't received any update since I sent off all the court documents

 

[Yazz]

H

My court hearing isn't until March and I haven't received any update since I sent off all the court documents

sorry if I’m asking too much. I’ve read about but you can chose not to go to court? How comes for you it happened like that. Was it due to any reasons?

 

[bakerbyday]

H

sorry if I’m asking too much. I’ve read about but you can chose not to go to court? How comes for you it happened like that. Was it due to any reasons?

The court documents I received said I have to attend court, 1) I intend to plead guilty as stated on the requisition and will attend court court on the date of the hearing

2) I intend to plead not guilty, I have read the paperwork sent to me. I understand that my case will not be heard on the date of the requisition and a new date will be set for which I will be asked to attend.

These were the two options so either way I have to go to court

 

[Gloster]

I just wanted to ask for an update of how it all went, I’m going through a similar situation myself. What happened, how much did they charge you and regarding court? Thanks

H

sorry if I’m asking too much. I’ve read about but you can chose not to go to court? How comes for you it happened like that. Was it due to any reasons?

If you have a problem please start your own thread: good advice for one may be bad advice for another. It can also cause confusion if two cases are being dealt with in one thread.

 

[Snow1964]

The court documents I received said I have to attend court, 1) I intend to plead guilty as stated on the requisition and will attend court court on the date of the hearing

2) I intend to plead not guilty, I have read the paperwork sent to me. I understand that my case will not be heard on the date of the requisition and a new date will be set for which I will be asked to attend.

These were the two options so either way I have to go to court

Option 1 would be a sentencing hearing, basically going to decide the punishment (amount of fine, surcharge, compensation and costs).

Option 2 would be to to show why charge is incorrect, effectively a trial, it would be booked for much longer time slot. But if subsequently found guilty wouldn't get any guilty plea discounts.


If you are going for option 1, decide in advance (but keep it to yourself) how much you can afford to pay in one go. If unemployed will likely need to have to pay in instalments if can't pay in one go. On other hand if you have sufficient savings might prefer to in one go, rather than it keep hitting your bank account for months reminding you of it.

 

[Yazz]

The court documents I received said I have to attend court, 1) I intend to plead guilty as stated on the requisition and will attend court court on the date of the hearing

2) I intend to plead not guilty, I have read the paperwork sent to me. I understand that my case will not be heard on the date of the requisition and a new date will be set for which I will be asked to attend.

These were the two options so either way I have to go to court

Thank you very much for getting back, how long was u using the card for and when u go caught first time did they take u to court? Sorry I’m really stressing out.

 

[chawky]

Thank you very much for getting back, how long was u using the card for and when u go caught first time did they take u to court? Sorry I’m really stressing out.

As above you need to make your own thread.