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Free TV licence scrapped for (most) over 75-s

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AndrewE

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Can see this causing an uproar amongst the generation that has had everything free off the state, they won’t like having to pay for something.
Try doing a bit of research, no, I'll save you the trouble.
My generation (now just into retirement) paid income tax at 30% in 1974 rising to 35% a couple of years later with the basic rate not dropping below 30% until 1986 (http://worldofstuart.excellentcontent.com/repository/incometaxrates_1974to1990.pdf)
This provided you with the infrastructure (like the electricity and gas Grids, railways and sewerage and water systems) that you enjoy now. Plus we paid National Insurance, of course, which might be the same as now.
A lot of us are appalled at what the current wonderful monetarist world has delivered, including Student Tuition Fees (although that's not quite so bad as is made out,) rail privatisation and other public money being poured into private pockets and in most cases not delivering.
I agree Winter Fuel allowance is pointless, as a better basic income would make it unnecessary. I also have no problem with this "means-testing"of the Licence fee, except that the generation it applies to and especially the neediest often don't claim what they are entitled to, so will miss out.
Bus Passes can be justified on the basis that, especially for people who are concerned to protect what savings they have (or who saw their parents die in poverty in the 1960s, as my mum did) they get people out, reducing ill-health from apathy and isolation and (I would guess) cutting accidents if people who shouldn't be driving take the bus instead. We keep reading about fatal accidents (fatal to other people) involving 80- and 90-year olds.
 
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Howardh

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Doesn't matter about the medium. I want some areas of media that are not saturated with ridiculous adverts that promise the unobtainable, or are simply pretentious and nonsensical. Basically, the BBC is good as it is. Advertising will ruin it.
If the BBC had a proper sports channel or two which showed plenty of live sport that's otherwise on the ad-saturated channels (Sky/BT) such as hockey, cricket etc I would certainly subscribe; that would mean, of course, the BBC becomes a fee-paying organisation; pay-to-watch.
But I think the conditions are now that the BBC should be given more money to stay ad-free and compete with Sky/BT/netflix etc so I would drop the licence and
(a) have an extra tax on any items sold which can receive live TV (i-phones, tablets, TV's, sticks etc)
(b) have some government funding out of the arts/farts budget
(a) + (b) would then provide a basic service (BBC 1, 2, 3, 4, News, national/local radio)
(c) have subscription to specialist channels such as
- sport*
- music/arts
- cinema
- 4k
etc.

*Programmes like Match of the Day, Wimbledon highlights etc could still be on the "free" channels no doubt.
Maybe the mainstream BBC could be thinned out and cut out the majority filler lifestlye programmes and repeats and concentrate on good stuff; they could probably go back to 2 channels and be better than today!
 
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Typhoon

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Then they should be applying for Pension Credit, and so would be exempt from paying the TV Licence.
No problem with that idea. My point was that older pensioners are not so well off as younger ones. Because new pensioners get the £168, some people think all pensioners do - they don't, there is a significant difference between the two, and this will only widen in monetary terms. I actually think the Pension Credit option is a good one as it spares the BBC of getting involved in who can and cannot afford it. The next problem is to convince these pensioners to apply, there is a real reluctance on the part of some.
 

EM2

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Sorry Howard, but I absolutely disagree. There is a danger of assuming that the BBC is just TV.
The whole point of the BBC is to 'educate, inform and entertain' and as such should offer something for everyone.
That's why it has Radio 3 and Radio 6 Music, just as examples. That's why it does the Proms and the Radio 1 Big Weekend.
 

Darandio

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Sorry Howard, but I absolutely disagree. There is a danger of assuming that the BBC is just TV.
The whole point of the BBC is to 'educate, inform and entertain' and as such should offer something for everyone.
That's why it has Radio 3 and Radio 6 Music, just as examples. That's why it does the Proms and the Radio 1 Big Weekend.

I would imagine the vast majority do assume that the BBC is just TV, certainly in the younger generation. Or they would certainly assume that the TV licence pays for the TV arm of the BBC, that shouldn't be surprising given it's called a TV licence. It's out of date and not fit for purpose.
 

Howardh

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Sorry Howard, but I absolutely disagree. There is a danger of assuming that the BBC is just TV.
The whole point of the BBC is to 'educate, inform and entertain' and as such should offer something for everyone.
That's why it has Radio 3 and Radio 6 Music, just as examples. That's why it does the Proms and the Radio 1 Big Weekend.
Thought that was exactly the point I was making?
With my system all of the above are kept, especially the radio stations, but we get the addition of paid-for sports etc that the BBC can't offer the licence payer right now.
Funding for the radio stations would come out of (a) and (b) as it's impossible to subscribe to FM and DAB radio in the main (although web-based stations certainly are).

NOTE It appears I ommitted Radio from my post - I have now added it!!
 
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Cowley

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Sorry Howard, but I absolutely disagree. There is a danger of assuming that the BBC is just TV.
The whole point of the BBC is to 'educate, inform and entertain' and as such should offer something for everyone.
That's why it has Radio 3 and Radio 6 Music, just as examples. That's why it does the Proms and the Radio 1 Big Weekend.
I fully agree with this and your comments about adverts in your previous post.
I feel that if the BBC turned into just another commercial operation then as a country we will have lost something that we’d never get back.
It does have its faults, but they’re fixable and it does a lot of things (especially radio) better than anyone else.
 

Darandio

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but we get the addition of paid-for sports etc that the BBC can't offer the licence payer right now.

You mean they will offer more than 'exclusive' radio coverage of the over 70's Quoits final at the Red Lion?

Sport coverage is down the pan at the BBC and they place great emphasis on exciting announcements for rights coverage (often radio) of minor sports that nobody* is interested in watching. Couple that with the idiotic use of 'Live' on their website for things such as 'Live Highlights'. Who on earth decides that it is appropriate to claim highlights are live?

*I will admit I did watch Curling once, still cannot get my head around that.
 

EM2

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Thought that was exactly the point I was making?
With my system all of the above are kept, especially the radio stations, but we get the addition of paid-for sports etc that the BBC can't offer the licence payer right now.
Well, where is children's programming in your scenario? No CBBC or CBeebies.
If you have a subscription music/arts channel, what will BBC4 show?
Do you think people would pay for BBC Sport, on top of Sky Sports and BT Sport? Can't see it myself.
 

Howardh

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You mean they will offer more than 'exclusive' radio coverage of the over 70's Quoits final at the Red Lion?

Sport coverage is down the pan at the BBC and they place great emphasis on exciting announcements for rights coverage (often radio) of minor sports that nobody* is interested in watching. Couple that with the idiotic use of 'Live' on their website for things such as 'Live Highlights'. Who on earth decides that it is appropriate to claim highlights are live?

*I will admit I did watch Curling once, still cannot get my head around that.
The hope is we would get what we paid for, instead of the scraps that are left for the BBC. I certainly want something other than endless hours of snooker!

Curling's fantastic by the way, you seriously need to get into it! I'm here to answer any questions (and the majority of it's free on youtube, in 1080p...what more could you want....!)
 

Howardh

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Well, where is children's programming in your scenario? No CBBC or CBeebies.
If you have a subscription music/arts channel, what will BBC4 show?
Do you think people would pay for BBC Sport, on top of Sky Sports and BT Sport? Can't see it myself.
Please, I don't know every single channel; yes they should be in and any other channels I've missed and yes, people should pay for BBC sport if it offered them what they wanted, instead of the miserable amount of live sport we get now.

Can we concentrate on how we pay for the BBC channels rather than being picky in that I've missed out BBC Alba (or any other channel.....)
 

Howardh

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BBC "flagship" programmes:-
Bargain Hunt
Homes Under the Hammer
Escape to the Country
Pointless - - -Never was a programme so well titled
They really do need binning. Wallpaper filler TV at it's worst. Those SHOULD be subscription then they will find out how valuable/wanted they are!!
 

Howardh

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We continue to pay for it as we do now. The people that want to watch live sport subscribe to sports channels already.
What about those that only watch the pay-sports channels but HAVE to pay for the BBC therefore get no value from their licence? OK, I admit that probably the vast majority of licence payers use the BBC in one form or other, but I for one could manage without the BBC (sub to sports, youtube, internet radio...no BBC involvement whatsoever) and with the likes of Netflix, Amazon they could well be in the majority one day?
Because of all these other media opportunities the Licence's days must be numbered. If we want to keep an ad-free BBC we have to be finding other ways to fund it.
Example - should we be forced to pay a licence to the Times (and get it for free)when all we read or want is the Metro?
 

ainsworth74

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Conversely, there are those now-single elderly women who only receive the basic state pension. Could you live on that amount of money?

Anyone who gets an old basic state pension of £129.20 per week would be entitled to have their income topped up by Pension Credit to the guaranteed amount of £167.25 per week. That same pensioner will then not have to pay any Council Tax as pensioners on Pension Credit receive a 100% discount. If they live in Social Housing they will get 100% of their rent paid and don't have to worry about the "under-occupation charge" even if they have two or three spare bedrooms.

Meanwhile a single working age woman would have to live on £73.10 per week from her Jobseekers Allowance (or Universal Credit these days). She would need to pay around 20% of her Council Tax bill herself (the exact level of discount varies by Local Authority but 20% is good average). If she lives in Social Housing and has more than one bedroom she'll have a reduction of 14% in the amount of help she can get towards her rent.

You'll forgive me but I'm far from convinced that out of the two scenarios it's the elderly woman who is suffering the most hardship.
 

Howardh

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When have they ever been described as 'flagship' programmes? If they were, they wouldn't be on when most of the populace is out of the house.
"Flagship"? Think there's an one-letter error in there!
Second argument, why should the BBC be producing programmes "most of the populace" can't watch live??!!!;)
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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When have they ever been described as 'flagship' programmes? If they were, they wouldn't be on when most of the populace is out of the house.

Are we not discussing the over-75's and making them pay for a TV licence on this thread. Many we know in this are range who regularly at home during the day, when offerings such as the four that I quoted seem the "staple diet" of BBC offerings.
 

EM2

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"Flagship"? Think there's an one-letter error in there!
Second argument, why should the BBC be producing programmes "most of the populace" can't watch live??!!!;)
That's why there's iPlayer and similar systems. There's more opportunity now to watch programmes that you've missed than ever before.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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'Staple diet' is not the same as 'flagship'.

Nonetheless, my good lady wife of 77 years of age has just been afflicted with the early stages of a dementia affliction. Perhaps the BBC see such daytime programmes as suitable broadcast material for nursing home for the elderly residents and my wife.

I am glad that someone on this thread informed the person labouring under the impression that ALL pension-age people are paid £168.00 per week of the error of their ways.
 

Howardh

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That's why there's iPlayer and similar systems. There's more opportunity now to watch programmes that you've missed than ever before.
Yes, love to know how many watch Homes Under The Hammer when they've got home from a 10-hr shift! Mind you, se still had to pay the licence in the 70's when i-player didn't exist, but on the other hand there was no daytime TV other than schools, news and Cricket/Golf/Racing etc!! How - did - we - manage.....???
 

Howardh

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Nonetheless, my good lady wife of 77 years of age has just been afflicted with the early stages of a dementia affliction. Perhaps the BBC see such daytime programmes as suitable broadcast material for nursing home for the elderly residents and my wife.

I am glad that someone on this thread informed the person labouring under the impression that ALL pension-age people are paid £168.00 per week of the error of their ways.
My mum, 88, dementia, loves Ceebies. She used to be a primary/infant music teacher, so I suppose it's home ground!!
 

433N

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Wouldn't a cheaper alternative to free TV licences for the over 75s be just to buy them the Complete Seasons 1 - 18 box set of Midsomer Murders.

By the time they'd finish the 18th season they will have forgotten watching the 1st and so will find it equally 'entertaining'. It's only £4.87 on Amazon for the 59 DVD set and its all they watch anyway.
 

Bletchleyite

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I'm for keeping it free for over-75s. Too many elderly people are isolated, and at least it gives some semblance of company. I like a quiet house, but can fully appreciate how some people (not just the elderly) feel they need a constant background noise of human activity when alone at home. As a society we don't do enough to look after the more isolated people in our community, surely this is the least we can do?

While I see your point, I'm not sure that BBC local radio (or radio 4) is not a better way of having "a friendly voice always there". That of course is funded from the licence fee, but one need not pay it if one only listens to radio.

I'd prefer them to go about it by allowing those who already recieve free licensing to be able to continue, just not include any new people in the scheme.

That's a good idea.

Personally, I dislike the licence fee and the means they go about asking for it. I didn't have one for a few years, but now pay almost solely to watch Casualty (which is naff but the one family activity we did and something I've continued doing out of habit) now that you need it for iPlayer. The TV gets switched on once or twice a month at most.

I think I get value from it, though mostly not for TV (though if I do watch TV it's almost exclusively BBC, mostly BBC2). TBH, I would fund it from general taxation.
 

Tom B

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On one hand - its protected for the poorest, many of the current generation of pensioners are far wealthier than those in their twenties etc will ever be...

On the other hand - it is very crafty to shift this onto the BBC and make them look like the bad guys rather than the blame falling on central government. And I suspect an element of Tory divide and conquer in that they want me to rally against OAPs and support outright the cuts.

One point surrounding how much the BBC pays its "personalities" - we know this because they at obliged to publish the information. The commercial broadcasters will doubtless be paying more.
I'm fairly sure that the highest paid TV person is the chap who plays the main nurse character on Casualty who's been doing it for 30odd years, and the highest paid radio was Steve Wright on radio 2 - serious eyebrow-raisin-no-g.

In the last year BBC Radio has lost a number of presenters (Eddie Mair for instance) to commercial radio. There was also a lot of turbulence on radio 2 although I don't think that was entirely related to salaries.
 

Bevan Price

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Xenophon PCDGS said: ↑
BBC "flagship" programmes:-
Bargain Hunt
Homes Under the Hammer
Escape to the Country
Pointless - - -Never was a programme so well titled
They really do need binning. Wallpaper filler TV at it's worst. Those SHOULD be subscription then they will find out how valuable/wanted they are!!

All a matter of personal taste. Personally, I would prefer them to bin all the soaps and never-ending "continuing drama series" and spend the money trying to create something new / original.
 

Howardh

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Xenophon PCDGS said: ↑
BBC "flagship" programmes:-
Bargain Hunt
Homes Under the Hammer
Escape to the Country
Pointless - - -Never was a programme so well titled


All a matter of personal taste. Personally, I would prefer them to bin all the soaps and never-ending "continuing drama series" and spend the money trying to create something new / original.
I spend too much time watching YouTube videos of cab drivers views. With honourable mention of Don Coffey! Maybe that s a direction the BBC could take....

Or maybe not.....
 
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