Free Bus Pass Use

[Robertj21a]

Yes, I should have thought of Keswick. Then again, a journey from Kendal to Penrith via Keswick takes 3½ hours if you're unwilling to rely on a four minute connection at Keswick. It might still be quicker to go via Newcastle.

I just worked out the first day of a hypothetical Ramsgate - Gretna trip. Unfortunately, these forums have an annoying feature that you get logged out if you spend more than about ten minutes writing a post, and so it disappeared when I tried to post it.

But starting in Ramsgate at 0930 on that first day, you only get as far as Luton. That was based on routing Ramsgate - Canterbury - Faversham - Sittingbourne - Chatham - Bluewater - Woolwich - Trafalgar Square - Marble Arch - Edgware - Watford Junction - Luton. Is there a better way?

There is actually a later bus from Luton to Bedford, but it's after 2300 and so out of bounds to an ENCTS traveller.

I'm a bit puzzled. The 554 from Keswick leaves at 09.35, 10.50, 13.30 and 17.35 (Mon-Fri) - it operates through to Carlisle (no changes) and takes only 1hr 10 mins. Not sure why Penrith keeps being mentioned.

 

[MedwayValiant]

The honest reason that I didn't think of using that route is that I didn't know it existed! But now that I do, and assuming that we start on Monday, I reckon that the Ramsgate - Gretna trip can be done in three days:

Day 1: Ramsgate (Stagecoach 9) - Canterbury (Stagecoach 3X) - Faversham (Arriva 333) - Sittingbourne (Chalkwell Garage 326) - Chatham (Arriva 700) - Bluewater (TfL 96) - Woolwich Arsenal (TfL 53) - Trafalgar Square (TfL 23) - Marble Arch (TfL 113) - Edgware (TfL 142) - Watford (Arriva 321) - Luton
Day 2: Luton (Centrebus X31) - Milton Keynes (Stagecoach X4) - Northampton (Stagecoach X7) - Leicester (Kinchbus Skylink) - Derby (High Peak Transpeak) - Buxton (High Peak 199) - Stockport (Stagecoach 192) - Manchester (First 37) - Bolton
Day 3: Bolton (Stagecoach 125) - Preston (Stagecoach 41) - Lancaster (Stagecoach 555) - Keswick (Stagecoach 554) - Carlisle (Stagecoach 79) - Gretna (arrive 1946)

Slightly to my surprise, the Ramsgate - Berwick upon Tweed trip takes longer, and the first day's routing in particular is nothing like I'd imagined:

Day 1: Ramsgate (Stagecoach 9) - Canterbury (Stagecoach 3X) - Faversham (Arriva 333) - Sittingbourne (Chalkwell Garage 326) - Chatham (Arriva 700) - Bluewater (Ensign Bus X80) - Lakeside (First 100) - Chelmsford (First X10) - Stansted Airport (Stephensons of Essex 6) - Saffron Walden
Day 2: Saffron Walden (Stagecoach C7) - Cambridge (Stagecoach B) - Huntingdon (Stagecoach B) - Peterborough (Centrebus 19) - Nottingham (Trent Barton Pronto) - Mansfield (Stagecoach 53A) - Clowne (Stagecoach 77) - Worksop
Day 3: Worksop (Stagecoach 21) - Doncaster (Arriva 405) - Selby (Arriva 415) - York (Reliance Motor Services 30X) - Thirsk (Silverline of Thirsk 170) - Northallerton (Dales and District 55) - Richmond (Arriva X26) - Darlington (Arriva 7) - Durham (Go North East X21) - Newcastle upon Tyne
Day 4: Newcastle upon Tyne (Arriva X15) - Berwick upon Tweed (arrive 1253)

 

[Robertj21a]

The honest reason that I didn't think of using that route is that I didn't know it existed! But now that I do, and assuming that we start on Monday, I reckon that the Ramsgate - Gretna trip can be done in three days:

Day 1: Ramsgate (Stagecoach 9) - Canterbury (Stagecoach 3X) - Faversham (Arriva 333) - Sittingbourne (Chalkwell Garage 326) - Chatham (Arriva 700) - Bluewater (TfL 96) - Woolwich Arsenal (TfL 53) - Trafalgar Square (TfL 23) - Marble Arch (TfL 113) - Edgware (TfL 142) - Watford (Arriva 321) - Luton
Day 2: Luton (Centrebus X31) - Milton Keynes (Stagecoach X4) - Northampton (Stagecoach X7) - Leicester (Kinchbus Skylink) - Derby (High Peak Transpeak) - Buxton (High Peak 199) - Stockport (Stagecoach 192) - Manchester (First 37) - Bolton
Day 3: Bolton (Stagecoach 125) - Preston (Stagecoach 41) - Lancaster (Stagecoach 555) - Keswick (Stagecoach 554) - Carlisle (Stagecoach 79) - Gretna (arrive 1946)

Slightly to my surprise, the Ramsgate - Berwick upon Tweed trip takes longer, and the first day's routing in particular is nothing like I'd imagined:

Day 1: Ramsgate (Stagecoach 9) - Canterbury (Stagecoach 3X) - Faversham (Arriva 333) - Sittingbourne (Chalkwell Garage 326) - Chatham (Arriva 700) - Bluewater (Ensign Bus X80) - Lakeside (First 100) - Chelmsford (First X10) - Stansted Airport (Stephensons of Essex 6) - Saffron Walden
Day 2: Saffron Walden (Stagecoach C7) - Cambridge (Stagecoach B) - Huntingdon (Stagecoach B) - Peterborough (Centrebus 19) - Nottingham (Trent Barton Pronto) - Mansfield (Stagecoach 53A) - Clowne (Stagecoach 77) - Worksop
Day 3: Worksop (Stagecoach 21) - Doncaster (Arriva 405) - Selby (Arriva 415) - York (Reliance Motor Services 30X) - Thirsk (Silverline of Thirsk 170) - Northallerton (Dales and District 55) - Richmond (Arriva X26) - Darlington (Arriva 7) - Durham (Go North East X21) - Newcastle upon Tyne
Day 4: Newcastle upon Tyne (Arriva X15) - Berwick upon Tweed (arrive 1253)

Presumably, you could shorten the Berwick trip by ignoring Stansted - Cambridge - Peterborough etc and just follow your Gretna trip up to Leicester - then:-

Skylink to East Midlands Airport
Skylink to Nottingham

- and you're back on your Berwick itinerary.

 

[MedwayValiant]

Good thinking. I should have thought of that.

I'd thought of turning east at Derby but it didn't help, but if instead you turn east at Loughborough then you can indeed get to Nottingham about an hour earlier than under the schedule above. That means that you can get as far as Doncaster on Day 2.

The advantage becomes two hours as you go through Day 3, and you can get as far as Alnwick. You can then take the previous X15 to the one above, and arrive at Berwick upon Tweed at 1053 on Day 4 instead of 1253.

I expect it would be possible to get one stage further than Luton on Day 1, perhaps by using a different route across London. But the last bus from Alnwick to Berwick upon Tweed is at 1810, and I doubt that it would be possible to speed things up sufficiently to get to Berwick on Day 3.

There are two main issues with an A1-based route. One is the complete absence of a bus between Sandy and St Neots - you have no choice but to go via Bedford, and on my actual trip I "cheated" on this bit and took a train.

The other is the very infrequent service between Stamford and Grantham. I was paying fares on my trip and took the 0900 bus from Stamford (these days it's 0915), but that's twirly.

 

[brompton rail]

Presumably, you could shorten the Berwick trip by ignoring Stansted - Cambridge - Peterborough etc and just follow your Gretna trip up to Leicester - then:-

Skylink to East Midlands Airport
Skylink to Nottingham

- and you're back on your Berwick itinerary.

What about Skylink Leicester to Derby, then Chesterfield, Sheffield, Doncaster, Selby, YORK etc. Would that be quicker than via Mansfield and Worksop? Isn't there a service Nottingham, Ollerton and Worksop?

 

[MedwayValiant]

There is indeed a service Nottingham - Ollerton - Worksop, and by using it you arrive at Worksop at ... exactly the same time as under my current schedule.

It's quite a long walk across Nottingham city centre from Broad Marsh to Victoria, and my schedule has you arriving at Broad Marsh at 1653 on Day 2. There's a Worksop bus from Victoria at 1720, but under my "rules" (actual walking time, plus 15 minutes to allow for possible late arrival) you can't get to it. The next is not until 1920, and in fact my schedule via Mansfield has you joining that very bus at Ollerton.

The sugggestion of routing Leicester - Derby - Chesterfield - Sheffield - Doncaster instead of Leicester - Loughborough - Nottingham - Mansfield - Worksop - Doncaster is a good one, but in fact it gets you to Doncaster 22 minutes later (2235 rather than 2213). The last bus from Doncaster to Selby is at 2045, so we'd need to save quite a lot of time during the day to be able to catch it.

I also had a look at going Sheffield - York via Leeds rather than Doncaster, but it doesn't help either.

 

[Robertj21a]

There is indeed a service Nottingham - Ollerton - Worksop, and by using it you arrive at Worksop at ... exactly the same time as under my current schedule.

It's quite a long walk across Nottingham city centre from Broad Marsh to Victoria, and my schedule has you arriving at Broad Marsh at 1653 on Day 2. There's a Worksop bus from Victoria at 1720, but under my "rules" (actual walking time, plus 15 minutes to allow for possible late arrival) you can't get to it. The next is not until 1920, and in fact my schedule via Mansfield has you joining that very bus at Ollerton.

The sugggestion of routing Leicester - Derby - Chesterfield - Sheffield - Doncaster instead of Leicester - Loughborough - Nottingham - Mansfield - Worksop - Doncaster is a good one, but in fact it gets you to Doncaster 22 minutes later (2235 rather than 2213). The last bus from Doncaster to Selby is at 2045, so we'd need to save quite a lot of time during the day to be able to catch it.

I also had a look at going Sheffield - York via Leeds rather than Doncaster, but it doesn't help either.

The free bus service leaves Nottingham Broadmarsh every 10 mins and takes about 12 mins to Victoria......

Is the Nottingham - Chesterfield 'Pronto' (for Sheffield etc) an option to avoid the limited service via Worksop ?

 

[MedwayValiant]

It is unfortunate that Nottingham City Council's website believes the CentreLink service still to be operated by Trent Barton, and gives a dead link to (presumably) an old version of the timetable. But if we believe Traveline's version of the timetable, which claims the journey time as 9 minutes, then we can catch that Worksop bus.

This has effects sufficiently profound and sufficiently surprising that it is worth repeating the entire schedule:

Day 1: Ramsgate (Stagecoach 9) - Canterbury (Stagecoach 3X) - Faversham (Arriva 333) - Sittingbourne (Chalkwell Garage 326) - Chatham (Arriva 700) - Bluewater (TfL 96) - Woolwich Arsenal (TfL 53)- Trafalgar Square (TfL 23) - Marble Arch (TfL 113) - Edgware (TfL 142) - Watford (Arriva 321) - Luton
Day 2: Luton (Centrebus X31) - Milton Keynes (Stagecoach X4) - Northampton (Stagecoach X7) - Leicester (Kinchbus Skylink) - Loughborouugh (Kinchbus 9) - Nottingham Broad Marsh (Nottingham Community Transport CentreLink, or walk fairly fast) - Nottingham Victoria (Stagecoach Sherwood Arrow) - Worksop (Stagecoach 22) - Doncaster (Arriva X45) - Selby (Arriva 416) - York
Day 3: York (Yorkshire Coastliner 840) - Whitby (Arriva X93) - Middlesbrough (Go North East X10) - Newcastle upon Tyne (Arriva X15) - Berwick upon Tweed (arrive 1903)

That Day 3 routing is probably not the one that you first thought of, but the infrequency of buses Thirsk - Northallerton - Darlington makes it quicker than the more obvious route. Now for the crazy bit ...

Under the route above, you arrive at Eldon Square at 1550 and have 48 minutes in which to cross the road to Haymarket for your bus to Berwick upon Tweed. But if instead you stay right where you are until 1645 ...

Newcastle upon Tyne (Arriva 85) - Carlisle (Stagecoach 79) - Gretna (arrive 1946)

... you arrive in Gretna at precisely the same time as you did via the A6-based route.

If you were constructing a route from Ramsgate to Gretna, would you ever have thought of going via Whitby?