Fraudulent Ticket

[jon0844]

If you were getting a discount of, say, 5 or 6% then you could perhaps believe it given there could be an agent willing to give up most, or all, of its profit to perhaps reach a certain target. Not likely, especially as I doubt there's any target, but it's plausible - just.

But I think people know something is up if they're getting a huge discount. They might not think the ticket is fake, but rather that someone has the means to print out tickets illegally. In other words, someone has stolen a ticket machine or is illegally printing them while at work.

It's how con artists sell fake crap to people by pretending it fell off the back of a lorry (and is therefore the real deal). People seem to fall for this all the time, so are obviously quite happy to handle stolen goods.

Naturally, if they find out they've been scammed, it's not so easy to go to the cops and say 'This bag is fake, but I thought it was nicked'.

 

[Suraggu]

Sorry if this is blunt, but serious fraud has been committed. East Coast will see this to court from experiences I have seen the book will be thrown pretty hard.

After reading posts I understand the back story but this will only end badly.

 

[londiscape]

This is not intended as advice, just something for us to think about in the context of the OP's post - given that TV adverts from TheTrainLine offer substantial "discounts", would it be such a jump for someone not familiar with railway ticketing to believe that anyone engaged in commerce could offer the same? Eg claiming to be a "travel agent"...

Just wondering...

 

[Haywain]

I can confirm it was not believed fake, he paid nigh on the face value, if he had paid half or less for the ticket than the full face value that would have screamed it but in this case it simply did not. He would not have paid nigh on face value for a fake when it is common sense to pay the little extra for a real one and no concerns

I'm afraid that there is some contradiction here, as you earlier said:

he bought the ticket for cash at liverpool street and that if we needed another disounted ticket then we email his emiail add to see if he could provide one at the discount. My hubby paid literally 15%off the rrpl certainly not worth it. If he paid something stupd then you get the feeling all is not well nut he saved only £80 per week

A 15% discount is substantial, and the fact of not buying the ticket at a ticket office should have rung alarm bells.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Originally Posted by concerned wife
I can confirm it was not believed fake, he paid nigh on the face value, if he had paid half or less for the ticket than the full face value that would have screamed it but in this case it simply did not. He would not have paid nigh on face value for a fake when it is common sense to pay the little extra for a real one and no concerns

I'm afraid that there is some contradiction here, as you earlier said:

Originally Posted by concerned wife
he bought the ticket for cash at liverpool street and that if we needed another disounted ticket then we email his emiail add to see if he could provide one at the discount. My hubby paid literally 15%off the rrpl certainly not worth it. If he paid something stupd then you get the feeling all is not well nut he saved only £80 per week

A 15% discount is substantial, and the fact of not buying the ticket at a ticket office should have rung alarm bells.

This bit ↓↓↓↓↓ seems not to tally with 15% either?

Originally Posted by concerned wife
he had to buy a new real ticket this week and I wondered why our account was down a few hundred.

 

[jon0844]

The people making these fake tickets must be raking it in if they're only giving a 15% discount. Or maybe the discount is actually far higher.

If true, the scale of this fraud must be huge as it must generate criminals far more money than many other crimes.

 

[Rich McLean]

The people making these fake tickets must be raking it in if they're only giving a 15% discount. Or maybe the discount is actually far higher.

If true, the scale of this fraud must be huge as it must generate criminals far more money than many other crimes.

Indeed. They do this and get away with it (for the time being) while those buying the tickets have the book thrown at them in court (and sent down in some cases)

 

[jon0844]

Well, the people buying them are effectively making the crimes happen.

 

[SPADTrap]

While you may only have an email address for these people who supply tickets I'm going to go out on a whim and say they have your details? The angle of "grass for info" as mentioned earlier must be thought about carefully!

 

[najaB]

This bit ↓↓↓↓↓ seems not to tally with 15% either?

It would down because effectively he has paid for two tickets instead of one. The fake and then the genuine one.

 

[SPADTrap]

I can confirm it was not believed fake, he paid nigh on the face value, if he had paid half or less for the ticket than the full face value that would have screamed it but in this case it simply did not. He would not have paid nigh on face value for a fake when it is common sense to pay the little extra for a real one and no concerns

What did he think it was? If it was in date, had the right stations and everything else what else could it have been? Rail staff discounts would have a code on the ticket.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

This is not intended as advice, just something for us to think about in the context of the OP's post - given that TV adverts from TheTrainLine offer substantial "discounts", would it be such a jump for someone not familiar with railway ticketing to believe that anyone engaged in commerce could offer the same? Eg claiming to be a "travel agent"...

Just wondering...

Yes, people are conned all the time sadly. This is a good point. I am not to judge whether this happened here or not though!

 

[DarloRich]

You need a normal criminal defence solicitor. May I suggest that if your husband has a "colourful" past one may be known to him already? That isn’t meant to sound off, just that it might save time in instructing and preparing a defence. If this "colour" relates to dishonest offences he may be on a sticky wicket though.

A settlement may be possible. However the only option he has is turn "super grass" and help to get a conviction of someone costing the TOC more money. That and a suitable payment are about all he has to throw into any negotiation. That payment will not be small I am afraid to say.

 

[concerned wife]

Hi all,

I posted some considerable time ago and as I was just doing a delay repay remembered this site and that i forgot to update an old thread which is now closed.

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=101008

The outcome was he was sentenced to 12 months imprisonment all in all. The tickets were the best copies ever seen by the inspector and team at doncaster (Old East Coast)I think it was and was deffo said internal knowledge as the tickets had the correct machine numbers on them for the machines they were said to come out of and all on current ticket stock They had several seperate cases with these tickets which they said came from the same source. All correctly printed, correct fonts, correct prices and stations everything. They said that they had to check the times on the transactions on the number of the machine the ticket purported to come from and could see no such sale was registered during this time.

Secondly the reason they knew the several people caught the tickets were from the same source was the times that the tickets were apparently printed in all cases were at 07:29 am. These other tickets had various departure return points

Shenfeld - London Terminals
Peterborough - London Terminals
Hertford North - moorgate
Brighton - Blackfriars (Sorry cannot remember any more)

To my knowledge they havent caught the person even though my partner cooperated. We as a family are better for it believe it or not, was difficult at the time.

No fines or penalties imposed due to the custodial sentence.

 

[Chew Chew]

Your husband got sentenced to 12 months imprisonment, I presume he served around half that time, for buying a fake season ticket?

 

[richw]

Your husband got sentenced to 12 months imprisonment, I presume he served around half that time, for buying a fake season ticket?

The original post states he was already on a suspended sentence. I'd assume he activated that rather than a new sentence?

The dates align roughly to this discussion as well

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=100605

 

[DaveNewcastle]

To my knowledge they havent caught the person even though my partner cooperated.

That's dissapointing but not too surprising. I'm very grateful to you for coming back here to enlighten us.

We as a family are better for it believe it or not, was difficult at the time.

I'm sure it was horrid at the time. But if I understand you correctly, then I'm very pleased to hear that life is more manageable now, and possibly a little calmer.

My best wishes to you.

 

[Chew Chew]

The original post states he was already on a suspended sentence. I'd assume he activated that rather than a new sentence?

The dates align roughly to this discussion as well

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=100605

Never noticed the suspended sentence part. That is a hell of a lesson to have learned.

 

[concerned wife]

Your husband got sentenced to 12 months imprisonment, I presume he served around half that time, for buying a fake season ticket?

Yes they only activated a month of it due tot he fact he had completed his community service, paid his substantial fine and had been some time witout offending, they could not be seen to have activated it fully as it would have been deemed sentencing him again.

Thanks to the admin for adding this to the original thread and opening it back up.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

That's dissapointing but not too surprising. I'm very grateful to you for coming back here to enlighten us.I'm sure it was horrid at the time. But if I understand you correctly, then I'm very pleased to hear that life is more manageable now, and possibly a little calmer.

My best wishes to you.

Indeed it is better, a total change and all for the better, slightly thankful ina way we both are, really weird but sometime it takes something negative t put that positive back in and realise what you ahve. Thanks for the wishes, feel bad I didnt come back to update after all the helpful advice in our time of need
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The original post states he was already on a suspended sentence. I'd assume he activated that rather than a new sentence?

The dates align roughly to this discussion as well

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=100605

Was not related, these were monthly tickets and others who also had cases the barrister told me had been found at their homes and some had even gone as far as used them for expenses and paid far less for their tickets than my partner.

Also these monthly tickets the magnetic strip did not open the gates, where my partner got on the gates were never used and was able to get through the gateline at Kings cross