Fraud Investigations

[tia010303]

Hello,

i have received the fraud investigation email regarding incorrectly placed tickets and ‘not paying full fares’.

for context, i live on a branch line (southminster) the whole 30 min service with 6 stops, has no ticket gates and we have occasional ticket guards who are available to sell us tickets (not guards who award penalties). i go to london liv st once or twice a week for work. i buy a ticket via trainline to liv st, and then use my contactless card/oyster for my tube journeys as they can vary. the only way im ever able to use my tickets on trainline is when i tap out at liverpool street or there is (very very rarely) a ticket officer scanning tickets on the train. i understand why this may have flagged as 99% of the time i never check in or check out at my home stations.

my location of origin varies a lot as my boyfriend picks me up sometimes instead of me travelling all the way back to southminster.

Do GA (greater anglia) have a case against me or is it just some strange automatic response.


Thanks

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Hello,

i have received the fraud investigation email regarding incorrectly placed tickets and ‘not paying full fares’.

for context, i live on a branch line (southminster) the whole 30 min service with 6 stops, has no ticket gates and we have occasional ticket guards who are available to sell us tickets (not guards who award penalties). i go to london liv st once or twice a week for work. i buy a ticket via trainline to liv st, and then use my contactless card/oyster for my tube journeys as they can vary. the only way im ever able to use my tickets on trainline is when i tap out at liverpool street or there is (very very rarely) a ticket officer scanning tickets on the train. i understand why this may have flagged as 99% of the time i never check in or check out at my home stations.

my location of origin varies a lot as my boyfriend picks me up sometimes instead of me travelling all the way back to southminster.

Do GA (greater anglia) have a case against me or is it just some strange automatic response.


Thanks

Welcome to the forum.

The core question we probably need an answer to is whether - regardless of it being checked - you always have a ticket that is valid for your journey? 'Valid' means that it covers your journey from where you get on all the way to Liverpool Street, that if the ticket needs a Railcard you hold the right Railcard and it's in date, and the ticket is allowed to be used at the time you used it.

And as a follow up, if you have used your ticket but it wasn't checked, you haven't tried to get a refund on it?

I'm sorry that the above will sound a bit untrusting - but good advice for someone who has done everything right probably won't be the same as good advice for someone who hasn't been following all the rules!

 

[JBuchananGB]

If you have not been stopped by an inspector and been found to have no ticket or an invalid ticket, then there is no need to reply or acknowledge the email from Greater Anglia. They are using software algorithms to look at ticket purchases and matching them to scans of tickets at stations and something in your travel patterns has triggered the email which you have received.
To help the experts in the forum, please upload the text of the email you have received, with any personal identifier removed, and do not reply at all to it, without further advice here.

 

[tia010303]

If you have not been stopped by an inspector and been found to have no ticket or an invalid ticket, then there is no need to reply or acknowledge the email from Greater Anglia. They are using software algorithms to look at ticket purchases and matching them to scans of tickets at stations and something in your travel patterns has triggered the email which you have received.
To help the experts in the forum, please upload the text of the email you have received, with any personal identifier removed, and do not reply at all to it, without further advice here.

Thank you for contacting us regarding your case.

Your account was highlighted due to some tickets between Shenfield and Liverpool Street either being purchased on board the trains or on arrival at Liverpool Street. Tickets must be purchased prior to boarding the train to be valid. This flagged your account.

We have identified that these journeys may have not originated from Shenfield. Could you confirm your correct origin station please?

Could you also provide evidence of your 16-17 or 16-25 railcard from March 2021 until present please?

Based on your response the decision will be to either offer you the opportunity to repay any funds relating to these journeys (plus our administration fee) or close your case where relevant evidence/facts have been provided.

Kind regards

 

[30907]

Thank you for contacting us regarding your case.

As you have already been in touch, it will be more difficult to ignore the mails. However, they aren't in a position to prosecute so it is up to you whether you respond further.

Your account was highlighted due to some tickets between Shenfield and Liverpool Street either being purchased on board the trains or on arrival at Liverpool Street. Tickets must be purchased prior to boarding the train to be valid. This flagged your account.

If that is correct, you have committed an offence on one or more occasions, and what you have told us isn't 100% accurate.

We have identified that these journeys may have not originated from Shenfield. Could you confirm your correct origin station please?

So they think you have been short-faring as well.

Could you also provide evidence of your 16-17 or 16-25 railcard from March 2021 until present please?

I trust you can do so, though you are not obliged to keep records of your purchases.

 

[Olivine]

Let’s hypothetically assume OP is legit and hasn’t done anything wrong.

At what point does this become a fishing expedition? They’re almost asking OP to incriminate themselves with no due evidence. They either do or don’t have evidence - not pushing the burden of proof the other way.

 

[John R]

Does Shenfield have a gateline? If so they may have identified that the tickets are never scanned there.

 

[AlterEgo]

Does Shenfield have a gateline? If so they may have identified that the tickets are never scanned there.

Yes it does. The company is very familiar with this sort of short faring and we have seen numerous cases where the company has threatened ticket purchasers in this way. Frankly they're very lazy. Just go and sting a train. You know which ones the suspects are catching, it's all in the data.

 

[Titfield]

Your account was highlighted due to some tickets between Shenfield and Liverpool Street either being purchased on board the trains or on arrival at Liverpool Street. Tickets must be purchased prior to boarding the train to be valid. This flagged your account.

We have identified that these journeys may have not originated from Shenfield. Could you confirm your correct origin station please?

This suggests to me that the OP was boarding the train somewhere other than Shenfield and then purchasing a ticket from Shenfield but at a time after the train had departed Shenfield.

If this is the case then the OP is in a difficult position.

 

[AlterEgo]

This suggests to me that the OP was boarding the train somewhere other than Shenfield and then purchasing a ticket from Shenfield but at a time after the train had departed Shenfield.

If this is the case then the OP is in a difficult position.

Not really, because the company hasn't identified who was travelling..

OP - cease talking about the correspondence online and ignore all of it.

 

[Tetchytyke]

If this is the case then the OP is in a difficult position.

Not if the OP ceases to respond. The train company don't know- or, more accurately, would struggle to prove- who was travelling, or from where.

This is yet another example as to why the best advice with these emails is simply to ignore them. People have the right to remain silent. They ought to use it.

At what point does this become a fishing expedition? They’re almost asking OP to incriminate themselves with no due evidence. They either do or don’t have evidence - not pushing the burden of proof the other way.

It's a fishing expedition from the very start. And yes, they'll be asking the OP to incriminate themselves- that's the whole point.

There is nothing wrong with any of that. I do it in my day job. I think something is happening but can't prove it, so I ask questions about it. I'll often start with very generic questions, too. It's a remarkably effective way of trapping people in a lie that they cannot then back out of.

 

[saismee]

It looks like GA have been analysing data and sent these out in bulk just recently. As others have said, it is all in the data and OP could easily be caught. OP, start buying the correct tickets and swap to another retailer. Ignore the emails and definitely don't admit to anything. Take it as a warning because they have no proof.

 

[tia010303]

Does Shenfield have a gateline? If so they may have identified that the tickets are never scanned there.

They do have a gateline - but often the gates are left open or it is faster to just show the operator your ticket and they’ll keep the gate open for you. when the station is busy the operator will just check tickets and hold the disabled access gate open to filter the station out faster