Fraud Investigation

[doghnut47]

Hi Everyone,

I randomly got a mail like
"
We have been investigating industry data and have been led to believe you are potentially not paying full fares on Greater Anglia services.
This activity has been highlighted as potentially fraudulent. "


It has stated to respond in 7 days but I responded on10th day as I did not go through the mails regularly for that email id. Is there any consequences for that ?
And I am unsure about the mail as I have never been stopped or checked at any point.

Please advise what would be next step I should do ?

Can I get a court summon for this ? If so what should be the procedure to go forward.? Any help would be appreciated !!

 

[John R]

Can you post - suitably anonymised, your response. It would also help us whether you believe they have any justification for such a claim.

Generally, if you are not caught in the act of fare evasion it is much more difficult for them to build a case that would stand up in court. It is not a crime to purchase a particular ticket - only to use it as part of a journey in which you are not paying the correct fare for the journey, so your purchase history alone is unlikely to be sufficient.

If you are in the habit of evading paying the correct fare it would of course be highly advisable to stop right now, as clearly they are “ on to you.”

 

[Hadders]

Replying three days late is highly unlikely to adversely impact that outcome.

Normally Greater Anglia are prepared to offer an out of court settlement to people who co-operate with their investigation, and who haven't come to their attention before. If this is what happens then you can expect to have to pay the cost of all the fares evaded at the full Anytime rate with no credit given for the invalid tickets you did purchase. They will also want you to pay an admin fee, typically around £150.

We really need to know what you've been doing to be able to comment properly.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi Everyone,

I randomly got a mail like
"
We have been investigating industry data and have been led to believe you are potentially not paying full fares on Greater Anglia services.
This activity has been highlighted as potentially fraudulent. "


It has stated to respond in 7 days but I responded on10th day as I did not go through the mails regularly for that email id. Is there any consequences for that ?
And I am unsure about the mail as I have never been stopped or checked at any point.

Please advise what would be next step I should do ?

Can I get a court summon for this ? If so what should be the procedure to go forward.? Any help would be appreciated !!

Have you been refunding high numbers of tickets or tickets you’ve actually used? Even if the tickets have not been scanned at gates or on train checks.

Digital tickets leave fingerprints all over the place.

They use data trawls to find people who do this where patterns of activity create red flags. Other such things they can find with same approach of course.

 

[Haywain]

Please advise what would be next step I should do ?

A lot will depend on what you said when you replied. Whilst it might be difficult to prosecute you without catching you in the act of "not paying full fares" it would be much easier if you have already admitted doing so.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

We really need to know what you've been doing to be able to comment properly.

I'm guessing a clue might be in the OP's user name. Purchasing and then using short distance tickets at one end of a longer distance journey (to get through the barriers) and then the same again at the other end, but with no valid ticket(s) held for the middle part of the journey, is likely to attract Greater Anglia's attention.

 

[doghnut47]

Hi @Hadders
Thanks for your reply.


I was unsure about the email and
so I just replied seek further help. I am not sure if that is the way how you should address these kind of mail.

Now coming to the issue, I intend to take correct round trip tickets with network rail card and after 10AM to my work.

What I can think of is 2 scenarios where I have booked a ticket for 10:09 and scanned the ticket before 10AM at the gate. That might have triggered this.
Another incident where because of the UI change of the trainline app when I booked as usual way of ticket I booked just oneway ticket that I realised at the gate of my return journey. I then booked short distance ticket. Though the single and the round trip ticket would have costed the same if I book at the beginning. Thinking of the same I booked a random ticket.

I have been using GA for a quite a time now never done short ticketing before or never intend to avoid the fare. I book the tickets with the my capacity and travel during that time. Do you think these 2 scenarios will cost me greatly.?

Now because I just replied seeking further help, Do you think I should mail them with any specific reply again or shall I wait?

 

[Cuthbert]

Hi Everyone,

I was unsure about the email and
so I just replied seek further help. I am not sure if that is the way how you should address these kind of mail.

Now coming to the issue, I intend to take correct round trip tickets with network rail card and after 10AM to my work.

What I can think of is 2 scenarios where I have booked a ticket for 10:09 and scanned the ticket before 10AM at the gate. That might have triggered this.
Another incident where because of the UI change of the trainline app when I booked as usual way of ticket I booked just oneway ticket that I realised at the gate of my return journey. I then booked short distance ticket. Though the single and the round trip ticket would have costed the same if I book at the beginning. Thinking of the same I booked a random ticket.

I have been using GA for a quite a time now never done short ticketing before or never intend to avoid the fare. I book the tickets with the my capacity and travel during that time. Do you think these 2 scenarios will cost me greatly.?

Now because I just replied seeking further help, Do you think I should mail them with any specific reply again or shall I wait?

What would help is the Email you received and any correspondence since. You need to redact all personal information and the Ref number.
With the email the pros will be able to read it and see what GA might of found. GA do look in Refund Fraud as mentioned here before. Have you claimed a lot of refunds via TrainLine? As GA will have full access to your purchasing patterns. They can also check through various websites train history and see if you were allowed such refunds.

If you are hiding things from GA they will find out. I am not saying this is what you are doing but my short time on the forums I have seen many try to lie on the forums which does not help at all.
Apologies if you have told the whole truth. The email will help a lot.

Just be truthful here on the forums and don't hide anything. The forum sages will definitely help you out.

 

[doghnut47]

What would help is the Email you received and any correspondence since. You need to redact all personal information and the Ref number.
With the email the pros will be able to read it and see what GA might of found. GA do look in Refund Fraud as mentioned here before. Have you claimed a lot of refunds via TrainLine? As GA will have full access to your purchasing patterns. They can also check through various websites train history and see if you were allowed such refunds.

If you are hiding things from GA they will find out. I am not saying this is what you are doing but my short time on the forums I have seen many try to lie on the forums which does not help at all.
Apologies if you have told the whole truth. The email will help a lot.

Just be truthful here on the forums and don't hide anything. The forum sages will definitely help you out.

I hardly do any refunds. So I am not worried about the refunds. !! They have not emailed me anything since I asked for seeking help to understand more of it.

 

[Olivine]

Going by your username - are you absolutely sure that’s all you’ve done? Those three or four things just wouldn’t get picked up because that’s probably less suspicious than the regular punter who goes about their daily business buying tickets and having no intention for fraud.

On the basis you are anonymous, you may aswell be honest to other posters asking you questions - or is it just a spam email?

No point asking for help if it’s the former and you have been showing indiscretion, rather than saying it was three or four events. Pointless.

 

[doghnut47]

What would help is the Email you received and any correspondence since. You need to redact all personal information and the Ref number.
With the email the pros will be able to read it and see what GA might of found. GA do look in Refund Fraud as mentioned here before. Have you claimed a lot of refunds via TrainLine? As GA will have full access to your purchasing patterns. They can also check through various websites train history and see if you were allowed such refunds.

If you are hiding things from GA they will find out. I am not saying this is what you are doing but my short time on the forums I have seen many try to lie on the forums which does not help at all.
Apologies if you have told the whole truth. The email will help a lot.

Just be truthful here on the forums and don't hide anything. The forum sages will definitely help you out.

this is the whole of it.
I have not got any details about any trip or anything.

""

Re: Trainline Account



We have been investigating industry data and have been led to believe you are potentially not paying full fares on Greater Anglia services.



This activity has been highlighted as potentially fraudulent.


We view this as a serious issue, and we have taken this step to contact you, with an outlook to resolve this matter with you efficiently.

""

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Nov 2024 ==

Going by your username - are you absolutely sure that’s all you’ve done? Those three or four things just wouldn’t get picked up because that’s probably less suspicious than the regular punter who goes about their daily business buying tickets and having no intention for fraud.

On the basis you are anonymous, you may aswell be honest to other posters asking you questions - or is it just a spam email?

No point asking for help if it’s the former and you have been showing indiscretion, rather than saying it was three or four events. Pointless.

username is something very much a co-incidence.
This is all what I can think of doing . I have checked my tickets and travels, none that I found anything off apart from these. As I said I never been stopped or questioned ever in my trip.

This is something also very strange as well for me.

 

[Olivine]

this is the whole of it.
I have not got any details about any trip or anything.

""

Re: Trainline Account



We have been investigating industry data and have been led to believe you are potentially not paying full fares on Greater Anglia services.



This activity has been highlighted as potentially fraudulent.


We view this as a serious issue, and we have taken this step to contact you, with an outlook to resolve this matter with you efficiently.

""

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Nov 2024 ==


username is something very much a co-incidence.
This is all what I can think of doing . I have checked my tickets and travels, none that I found anything off apart from these. As I said I never been stopped or questioned ever in my trip.

This is something also very strange as well for me.

Well I’m not sure what else you can do that email back doubling down on this statement and ask for their evidence?

 

[Hadders]

When they research ticket purchasing history they will be looking for things like:

- tickets you're not entitled to use - eg child, railcard discounted if there's no evidence of you owning the railcard
- railcard disciunted tickets used at an invalid time
- tickets that could indicate doughnutting
- excessive volume of refunds
- excessive/possible fraudulent delay repay claims
- Advance tickets used on the wrong train

There will probably be other things as well.

If you'e replied to Greater Anglia's initial email then the ball is in their court to come back to you. There's nothing to be gained contacting them again.

 

[AlterEgo]

If you have not been caught during your travels the best thing to do is shut up and not respond. Don't respond to their emails, don't say anything, don't do anything.

Regrettably you have already responded now and are now down the path of incriminating yourself, very unwisely.

If you could post the text of their email to you, and what you wrote in response, we can give better advice, but frankly there is very little they can do just based off someone's booking history and without literally catching you evading the fare.

 

[doghnut47]

If you have not been caught during your travels the best thing to do is shut up and not respond. Don't respond to their emails, don't say anything, don't do anything.

Regrettably you have already responded now and are now down the path of incriminating yourself, very unwisely.

If you could post the text of their email to you, and what you wrote in response, we can give better advice, but frankly there is very little they can do just based off someone's booking history and without literally catching you evading the fare.

I replied this

""


I received a notice from the team with reference number XXXXXX.
I always try to make sure to buy tickets with right rail card and fare. Can you kindly help me with this?

""

 

[AlterEgo]

I replied this

""


I received a notice from the team with reference number XXXXXX.
I always try to make sure to buy tickets with right rail card and fare. Can you kindly help me with this?

""

Well it’s not incriminating at least. Don’t send them anything else.

 

[doghnut47]

FYI
They closed my ticket without further action.

 

[island]

That's good to hear.

Needless to say, you must now understand your card is very much marked and it is essential that you have the correct ticket for all journeys, purchased before departure, with you whenever you travel in future.

 

[dcbwhaley]

Could someone clarify one of OPs points?
If I buy a ticket which is only valid after 1000 but check in at the barrier at 955 to catch the 1005 train: would that raise a possibly fraudulent flag?

 

[SuspectUsual]

Could someone clarify one of OPs points?
If I buy a ticket which is only valid after 1000 but check in at the barrier at 955 to catch the 1005 train: would that raise a possibly fraudulent flag?

It absolutely shouldn't do, but the problem can be that some barriers are programmed not to accept off peak tickets automatically, and you're then in the hands of the gateline attendants, who may or may not let you through

 

[dosxuk]

Could someone clarify one of OPs points?
If I buy a ticket which is only valid after 1000 but check in at the barrier at 955 to catch the 1005 train: would that raise a possibly fraudulent flag?

It should do, but only if there's a train before 1000 which the passenger could catch, and their ticket is scanned at the other end before the 1005 train arrives.

 

[dsa123]

FYI
They closed my ticket without further action.

Hi, I have my own thread about a similar email I received from GA. I’m still waiting to hear back from them after I responded - would be curious to know more about your ticket closure? Did they say anything else to you / was it an automated email?

 

[Statto]

Hi, I have my own thread about a similar email I received from GA. I’m still waiting to hear back from them after I responded - would be curious to know more about your ticket closure? Did they say anything else to you / was it an automated email?

The general rule here, is start your own thread as no 2 cases are the same.

 

[doghnut47]

Hi, I have my own thread about a similar email I received from GA. I’m still waiting to hear back from them after I responded - would be curious to know more about your ticket closure? Did they say anything else to you / was it an automated email?

They replied quoting about a journey for which there was a flag. The journey was absolutely legit. But that was not my usual journey route and as the ticket was not scanned at the beginning it potentially triggered the red flag as a short ticketing.