Frankfurt Main Hbf - Pickpockets

[Re6/6]

Recently I boarded at TGV here heading for Paris and after settling into my seat I was approached by a man speaking in German and after he wasn’t understood in good English basically begging. I told him to sling his hook. Just after that and still prior to departure the Train Manager made an announcement of the trains public address system advising passengers there were pickpockets on the train.

After the journey commenced and my Interrail pass and seat reservation documents were being checked by the ticket inspector I asked him about the pickpocket announcement. He told me it was a particular problem Frankfurt Main Hbf and there were several instances of this every week. Apparently criminal gangs are boarding the train and distracting passengers who are settling in stealing mobile phones, passports and wallets and jumping off before departure.

The moral of the story is not to unpack your belongings on the table in front of a run the risk of your personal belongings being stolen and there by ruining your trip.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Immediately outside Frankfurt Hbf is one of my least favourite experiences travelling Germany by rail. Of all the big city stations that is the one I felt most uneasy.

 

[DanNCL]

Something else you’ll find in Germany, and in particular at Frankfurt Hbf, is the same people who beg hunting through the bins for glass and plastic bottles. The reason for that is Germany’s deposit system, you get the deposit back when you return the bottle to a returns machine (pfandautomat) which is usually found in larger supermarkets.

Bahnhofsviertel in Frankfurt is one of Frankfurt’s worst areas for crime if I recall correctly, and Frankfurt is the worst city in Germany for crime.
I get why many would feel uncomfortable there and I wouldn’t have exactly have said I was ‘comfortable’ outside Frankfurt Hbf, but to me even being there late at night it didn’t seem any worse than being outside Newcastle station on a Saturday night. A lot of drunks. A lot of drug users. But keep yourself to yourself, remain vigilant and you’ll be fine.

 

[WestCoast]

I get why many would feel uncomfortable there and I wouldn’t have exactly have said I was ‘comfortable’ outside Frankfurt Hbf, but to me even being there late at night it didn’t seem any worse than being outside Newcastle station on a Saturday night. A lot of drunks. A lot of drug users. But keep yourself to yourself, remain vigilant and you’ll be fine.

Agreed, while it’s very far down my list of favourite European stations I am hesitant to be too harsh on Frankfurt Hbf when you get much the same type of people hanging outside all the entrances to Glasgow Central and not just late at night. Actually even more intimidating I would say as some of them are looking for trouble. Fortunately, they do a good job of keeping them out of the station itself unlike in Frankfurt.

 

[Gloster]

I used to make a long day’s journey into night back from Germany or Denmark, but used to find that the scariest part of the journey was Ryde bus station late at night: it was the sheer randomness of the behaviour that was most frightening. Even late at night in and around a German Hauptbahnhof you generally felt that if you kept your wits about you, you should avoid trouble. In Ryde you had groups of feral youth, some probably pre-teen, and some of the island’s less pleasant inhabitants: you just did not know what irrational thing they might do next. In the end I used to time things so that I was back by five or six o’clock at the latest. There was the difference that in Germany there is a fair presence of police and railway staff in the station and around it, but you must be joking if you expect that in this country.

 

[70014IronDuke]

I think I first went to Frankfurt Hbf in 1972. It was a September Sunday afternoon, around 15.00hrs - and even in those days it stood out as feeling dodgy.

Some months later, I arrived at Koln and had to change trains at about 04.00 hrs one Sunday morning.

I went down into some basement-type waiting room, and - I was shocked to find - it was full of down and outs. They were native Germans, and I took some photos before someone warned me off, in a kind of reasonable way. It was obviously a dark place, but I wasn't actually scared. Frankfurt however, even on a sunny Summer afternoon definitely had an air of risk.

 

[Ash Bridge]

I’m due to arrive at Frankfurt Hbf early evening on the last Friday of August, I was wondering why the directions provided by the hotel route us from an exit on the northern side of the station then via what appears to be a somewhat longer walking route rather than the seemingly more direct route from the main front entrance - I’m guessing now the explaination for this after reading the posts above?

 

[nwales58]

Similarly for Intercity hotel don't use the south, let alone the front, exit but walk along platform 1 following the SEV (RRB) markings to come out opposite the hotel. Frankfurter Algemeine Zeitung has periodic moans about why oh why is Hbf Vorplatz the drugs supermarket of the region, it's been like that for years.

 

[blackfive460]

He told me it was a particular problem Frankfurt Main Hbf

Köln Hbf has had the same problem with on-train pickpockets and theft for years.

I recall an instance when the tour manager with a group had her shoulder bag stolen on an EC heading to Switzerland and only noticed it had gone when the train was well under way. Her shoulder bag contained her passport and worse, all the tickets and paperwork for the entire tour. How that particular tour group got on I have no idea.

 

[duesselmartin]

What makes Cologne and Frankfurt an easy target is that trains stop there for more than a few minutes so the thief can get on and off. Esp luggage thiefs.

 

[dutchflyer]

Plus that FRA HBF is a dead-end (Kopf) station-so all trains have to reverse=stand longer if they pass by. There is always a warning before arr there in those trains in my exp. Specially disturbing on overnight trains. And half of those trains will serve the main INTern airport in DE 10 mins before/after=full of unsuspecting tourists from faraway with big luggages.
I like to stay in Premier HTLs (probably well known to most Brits) in DE, they are there also since some 4-5 yrs, but the one close by FRA HBF also happened in my own-just 1 night- exp. to be below the usual good standard this chain offers.
Main stations-HBF in the Rhein/Ruhr also tend to be full of persons ´at the end of the line´-like Dortmund, Essen, Duisburg.

 

[DeverseSam]

Something else you’ll find in Germany, and in particular at Frankfurt Hbf, is the same people who beg hunting through the bins for glass and plastic bottles. The reason for that is Germany’s deposit system, you get the deposit back when you return the bottle to a returns machine (pfandautomat) which is usually found in larger supermarkets.

This isn’t begging or even dishonest

 

[py_megapixel]

This isn’t begging or even dishonest

Indeed not. The purpose of the Pfand system is to encourage people to return bottles for reuse/recycling rather than throwing them away. Someone removing bottles from a bin and returning them is helping the system achieve that purpose, if by a slightly roundabout route.

In some places you'll actually find that the bins have bottle holders attached to them to encourage people who would otherwise throw away bottles to leave them for someone else to return.

 

[DanNCL]

This isn’t begging or even dishonest

I wasn’t trying to suggest it was just pointing it out as an observation.

 

[Zamracene749]

I’m due to arrive at Frankfurt Hbf early evening on the last Friday of August, I was wondering why the directions provided by the hotel route us from an exit on the northern side of the station then via what appears to be a somewhat longer walking route rather than the seemingly more direct route from the main front entrance - I’m guessing now the explaination for this after reading the posts above?

Stayed there end of may/ early june this year. On top of the area's already mentioned problems, there are building works in the hbf area with some access points closed. It feels like the police and security have relinquished control around there. I'm six foot, I grew up and live in a rough area and am no shrinking violet but I've never been anywhere as dodgy in the UK or Europe, openly aggressive dealers, gangs of lads, open drug taking. Personally, if I return I'll be booking a hotel elsewhere well away from the hbf and city centre. It was that bad.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Brussels Midi's surroundings is a bit dodgy. Not great when the last Eurostar from London dumps a trainload of passengers onto the surrounding streets in the dark. Although I hear Brussels North is FAR worse.

Are there any London terminals' surroundings that are dodgy at night? Probably Waterloo is the closest you'd get to trouble if you're waiting for a bus on Waterloo Road. Charing Cross probably isn't great either.

 

[WestCoast]

Brussels Midi's surroundings is a bit dodgy. Not great when the last Eurostar from London dumps a trainload of passengers onto the surrounding streets in the dark. Although I hear Brussels North is FAR worse.

Are there any London terminals' surroundings that are dodgy at night? Probably Waterloo is the closest you'd get to trouble if you're waiting for a bus on Waterloo Road. Charing Cross probably isn't great either.

Paris Nord is not exactly a nice area either although I find it’s more inside the station you have to watch there, I had some time to pass there last year and I witnessed the police running to multiple incidents inside the station within about half an hour. I think theft and aggressive begging are the main issues.

The area around Frankfurt Hbf the main issue is the drug using, dealing and prostitution, it’s not a good area at all. However, the other central areas have always seemed fine to me when I’ve visited. Or just get a train to Wiesbaden or Mainz which are far nicer in general if you ask me…

In terms of London Terminals, I recall people telling me round Kings Cross used to be a bit of a trouble spot in days gone by.

 

[D6130]

In terms of London Terminals, I recall people telling me round Kings Cross used to be a bit of a trouble spot in days gone by.

Back in the mid-1970s, when I was working in the London area, the area around Kings Cross and St Pancras was exceedingly dodgy....with prostitution and drug dealing very much in evidence. Argyle Square and the streets leading off it were full of seedy little hotels in which rooms could be hired by the hour. All that changed when Eurostar arrived at St Pancras in 2007 and the area was 'gentrified' seemingly overnight. Many of those seedy hotels have now become luxurious and expensive 'boutique' establishments catering for foreign tourists travelling by Eurostar.

 

[scragend]

Paris Nord is not exactly a nice area either although I find it’s more inside the station you have to watch there, I had some time to pass there last year and I witnessed the police running to multiple incidents inside the station within about half an hour. I think theft and aggressive begging are the main issues.

I haven't been to Frankfurt Hbf (will be doing in about three weeks' time) but Paris Nord is the station I've found most intimidating (for want of a better word) in terms of beggars.

Mostly if someone asks me for money outside a station and I say no, they move straight on to someone else. Paris Nord is the only place where they've asked me "Why not?" and tried to get into an argument with me about why I won't give them money.

Re. the pfand on plastic bottles - I've seen this in Berlin a lot, mainly around Alexanderplatz. If I'm sitting on the fountain drinking out of a bottle, someone (usually an older woman) will often come up to me and basically ask "can I have that bottle when you've finished with it?" I don't mind giving it to them if it makes them go away. I suppose I am effectively giving them money because it's credit that I would otherwise have been able to get back, but it feels less like it if I'm not actually handing over cash.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Brussels Midi's surroundings is a bit dodgy. Not great when the last Eurostar from London dumps a trainload of passengers onto the surrounding streets in the dark. Although I hear Brussels North is FAR worse.

Are there any London terminals' surroundings that are dodgy at night? Probably Waterloo is the closest you'd get to trouble if you're waiting for a bus on Waterloo Road. Charing Cross probably isn't great either.

Yes - Brussels Midi has been a bit "interesting" for decades (I regularly used to visit an organisation based in Brussels in the '70s and '80s, via ferry and train). And the exit on one side of it, at least, still seems a bit hairy today within a block or so.

In London, I've never found Waterloo or Ch X to be a problem - though perhaps because I know the areas well and feel at home there.

Paris Nord is not exactly a nice area either although I find it’s more inside the station you have to watch there, I had some time to pass there last year and I witnessed the police running to multiple incidents inside the station within about half an hour. I think theft and aggressive begging are the main issues.

I too have always found Paris Nord a bit heavy - inside (including the Metro interchange areas) as much as the streets outside.

Back in the mid-1970s, when I was working in the London area, the area around Kings Cross and St Pancras was exceedingly dodgy....with prostitution and drug dealing very much in evidence. Argyle Square and the streets leading off it were full of seedy little hotels in which rooms could be hired by the hour. All that changed when Eurostar arrived at St Pancras in 2007 and the area was 'gentrified' seemingly overnight. Many of those seedy hotels have now become luxurious and expensive 'boutique' establishments catering for foreign tourists travelling by Eurostar.

The area around KX has certainly felt unwelcoming at times, if you're not a local. Though having worked there much of the time since the '70s, I must say that it never felt that bad to me personally - the "street life" was mostly in its own world, and those of us around the area every day carried on largely in parallel. It was even possible to end up with a nodding acquaintance with some of the regulars on the street; there was one woman who'd now and again keep me up to date with how "business" was.

The "gentrification" around Kings Cross was by no means overnight, as suggested. It happened over decades (with a long period of increasing dereliction before anything bounced back). And much of the "improvements" (improvements, that is, in the eyes of the corporations buying up swathes of the land - or, in the case of the main Railway Lands, being given it in return for putting the new railway infrastructure on some of it) were strenuously struggled against by local communities for decades. Many of the seedy places might indeed now be expensive establishments; but myriad non-seedy and much-used local shops, pubs and homes have also been replaced by developments out of reach of the local community.

 

[The exile]

This isn’t begging or even dishonest

Although it is specifically forbidden in the German equivalent of railway bye-laws.

 

[Magdalia]

Immediately outside Frankfurt Hbf is one of my least favourite experiences travelling Germany by rail. Of all the big city stations that is the one I felt most uneasy.

I visited Frankfurt a few times around 25-30 years ago. Back then the area around the station was very threatening with drug taking on the streets.

Brussels Midi has been a bit "interesting" for decades (I regularly used to visit an organisation based in Brussels in the '70s and '80s, via ferry and train). And the exit on one side of it, at least, still seems a bit hairy today within a block or so.

I passed through Brussels much more frequently, and over a longer period. My impression is that the area around Midi declined between my first visit, not long after the tunnel opened, and my last, about 15 years ago.

The "gentrification" around Kings Cross was by no means overnight, as suggested. It happened over decades (with a long period of increasing dereliction before anything bounced back). And much of the "improvements" (improvements, that is, in the eyes of the corporations buying up swathes of the land - or, in the case of the main Railway Lands, being given it in return for putting the new railway infrastructure on some of it) were strenuously struggled against by local communities for decades. Many of the seedy places might indeed now be expensive establishments; but myriad non-seedy and much-used local shops, pubs and homes have also been replaced by developments out of reach of the local community.

I commuted through Kings Cross for nearly 30 years. Daytime was fine but care was needed after dark. I agree that the "gentrification" wasn't overnight, but it did happen very rapidly, especially in the few years between opening of HS1 to St Pancras and opening of the new Western Concourse at Kings Cross.

Those with long memories will also remember that construction work was a major factor most of the time, in this respect building the British Library dwarfed anything that the railway was doing.

 

[DeverseSam]

Although it is specifically forbidden in the German equivalent of railway bye-laws.

Thank you, the asking for or searching the bins?

 

[duesselmartin]

Thank you, the asking for or searching the bins?

searching bins is actually illigal as the bottles (or rubbish) remains the property of the bin owner.
A supermarket chain that claims to be very sustainable and eco friendly got bad press a few years back after the prosecuted somebody searching for a bit of food in a bin which contained food past its sell by date.

 

[nw1]

searching bins is actually illigal as the bottles (or rubbish) remains the property of the bin owner.
A supermarket chain that claims to be very sustainable and eco friendly got bad press a few years back after the prosecuted somebody searching for a bit of food in a bin which contained food past its sell by date.

Indeed, completely unnecessary to prosecute someone for retrieving unsellable food from a bin. I've heard the same thing happen in the UK. Who is actually harmed by this (besides the retriever who might get ill from eating it)?

As for Frankfurt Hbf, I've changed trains there three or four times now, a couple of times with around a half-hour wait. I think I was lucky: it was always the middle part of the day so I didn't have any sense of threat, aside from the usual recommendation to keep vigilant on large stations.

I didn't venture out of the station, though.

 

[Giugiaro]

Interestingly, when I went to Frankfurt back in 2019 it didn't feel like it was an unsafe city. I walked late at night to have dinner and explore the city a little bit further and even spent the early morning at the airport station and restaurant area. I was never approached by anyone dodgy.

In 2022, however, homeless people and beggars were all over the place in Madrid, Paris, Frankfurt, Hannover, and Berlin. In 2023 I talked with people who got robbed at Paris - Gare du Nord immediately after crossing the main hall. I also felt like I was being followed every time I was walking alone in a Parisian railway/metro station.
Homelessness, Begging, Drug Trafficking, and Pickpocketing have all been on the rise in Portugal as well. It isn't as safe as pre-Covid.

 

[Beebman]

In 2023 I talked with people who got robbed at Paris - Gare du Nord immediately after crossing the main hall. I also felt like I was being followed every time I was walking alone in a Parisian railway/metro station.

I used to be an IT manager for a company which often sent staff all over Europe to conferences, etc. One of my many duties was to assist with claims for stolen laptops and I only had to do that three times for staff travelling abroad - in each of those three cases the staff members concerned were relieved of their laptops at Gare du Nord.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This isn’t begging or even dishonest

It is and it isn't. Litter in a bin is the property of the disposal company (hence why stealing scrap metal from a skip isn't OK). However in practice it is a useful thing to do.

As to the general issue, it's the downside of an ungated system.

 

[AY1975]

In 2001 I went to Frankfurt for that year's "Kirchentag" (German church convention) which is held every two years, usually every odd year, in a different German city each time. As I was putting my bag into a luggage locker at the Hbf, someone came up to me who told me that he had been robbed of his wallet and left penniless and needed money for a ticket to Friedrichshafen where he lived.

I initially said sorry I can't help, and suggested various alternative solutions, but he was very persistent and adamant that he had exhausted all other possible avenues of help, and that begging was his only option. He was obviously determined not to leave me alone until I gave him what he wanted, so I very reluctantly gave in to his demands in the end. But rather than simply give him the money then and there, I offered to buy his ticket for him. Experience has shown that usually if you offer to buy a beggar what they say they want, they will do a runner, but on this occasion he was happy for me to do so, so I went with him to the ticket office and bought him a ticket with my debit card. At least then he couldn't run off with the money and spend it on drink or drugs, and it wasn't as if he wanted to go to a more popular destination such as Cologne, Hamburg, Berlin or Munich (in which case he could have tried to sell the ticket on to someone else to get money for what he really wanted).

I found out afterwards that I could have advised him to go to the "Bahnhofsmission", which is a church-run organisation that helps people in any kind of need. They have an office at most major stations across Germany. He would probably have claimed to have tried that and been turned away or found it was closed, though. If he had said the former, then I suppose I could have suggested that they'd be more likely to help him if I went with him than if he turned up on his own, but obviously it's easy to be wise after the event. Their website is at www.bahnhofsmission.de and has information in English and a few other European languages.

 

[duesselmartin]

Interestingly, when I went to Frankfurt back in 2019 it didn't feel like it was an unsafe city. I walked late at night to have dinner and explore the city a little bit further and even spent the early morning at the airport station and restaurant area. I was never approached by anyone dodgy.

In 2022, however, homeless people and beggars were all over the place in Madrid, Paris, Frankfurt, Hannover, and Berlin. In 2023 I talked with people who got robbed at Paris - Gare du Nord immediately after crossing the main hall. I also felt like I was being followed every time I was walking alone in a Parisian railway/metro station.
Homelessness, Begging, Drug Trafficking, and Pickpocketing have all been on the rise in Portugal as well. It isn't as safe as pre-Covid.

in general German cities are still safe. Pick pockets are an increasing phenonemon and sadly due to illigal migrants.
But I think there is a similar situation in England. I frequently visit Oxford and it is certainly in decline. More people begging, more pick pockets, especially where tourist crowds gather.