Fort William in seated sleeper

[87031]

Been looking into ways of ticket options southbound on the 1950 Fort Bill-Euston. When you search for say Fort William-Crewe on the scotrail site it gives you a rather expensive price of £94.00. I did a seperate search on the same train and an advance single is £15.90 to edinburgh then if you book on the Aberdeen portion from Inverkeithing for £33.00 and get on at Edinburgh its half the price cheaper.

Thought there might be catch to this so spoke to scotrail and they said there wasnt a problem doing this, Even if you did buy the ticket at £94.00 they would still have to reserve a seat in the Aberdeen portion as the Fort William seated coaches get taken off at Edinburgh, seems strange that although in theroy its the same train when it leaves Edinburgh that fares could differ so much. I thought with the train not actually advertised to stop at Edinburgh there could be a problem combining tickets but not according to the telsesales dept. Anyone any views on this im a bit baffled that it cost so much to buy one single?

 

[sonic2009]

Where are you actually going 2?

 

[87031]

Fort William-Crewe for the cheapest way on the 1950 from Fort Bill?

 

[rail-britain]

The sales rep is correct

You would have two tickets :
Fort William - Edinburgh (get off at Edinburgh)
Inverkeithing - Crewe (boarding at Inverkeithing)

However, passengers from Fort William transfer to the Inverness and NOT the Aberdeen
Therefore you would not be permitted to board at Edinburgh

If you missed the Aberdeen at Inverkeithing then you are permitted to board at Edinburgh, but you have to make this request whilst at Inverkeithing station, for which a taxi will be authorised

What about fares :
Fort William - Westerton
Westerton - Crewe

 

[EltonRoad]

Although the web site displays fares for the Fort William seated sleeper, it won't actually let you book. This is probably why it never displays fares other than £94. If you progress the booking any further you'll get an error message telling you to ring ScotRail. I suspect this is because of the change of coaches scenario and because a reservation needs to be put on both at Fort William and at Aberdeen. You can book to Edinburgh as it's a local fare, and the seated coach goes through to Edinburgh, but to book further you'd need to call ScotRail. According to the web site (http://www.scotrail.co.uk/content/caledonian-sleeper-seated-advance-single.html) fares start from £33 so in theory they should be able to offer this on some trains at least.

 

[rail-britain]

Fort William - Westerton
Day Single £22.10
You can book this online without any problem

Westerton - Crewe
Advance Single £71.00
I have also managed to book this online without any problem

The Fort William has always commanded higher fares

I made a Falkirk Grahamston - Crewe journey a few years ago, and it is still one of the cheapest final pick up points (currently £37.00)

 

[87031]

Seems strange that Fort William-Edinburgh is £15.90 and to Westerton it's £22.10:roll: Wouldnt the easiest way be to book Fort William-Edinburgh then Falkirk Grahamston-Crewe for £33.00 and join at Edinburgh?

 

[EltonRoad]

I'm pretty sure there's no need to split fares. The fares structure from Fort William is the same as the other sleeper routes, it's just there's less capacity, and there's the coach change faff at Edinburgh. The only £71 advance single I can find is a berth-inclusive ticket.

There are also non-advance seated tickets starting from £64 on the FW route (http://www.scotrail.co.uk/content/caledonian-sleeper-seated-standard-single.html).

 

[87031]

The fares quoted on there webpage seem different to the booking facility, i searched eg Inverness-Euston in August and it quotes £33 for seated sleeper also £33 if you search Aberdeen-Euston. I dont see why you couldnt split fares because techniquely speaking the train calls at Edinburgh so you couild just board the Inverness portion and go from there after alighting from the Fort Bill portion. Cheapest fare ive found direct from Fort Bill is £60 but the splitfare option would still work out cheaper at £48.50:

 

[EltonRoad]

Yeah, this is partly what I said in my post above. You can't book the seated sleeper on line from Fort William. The full range of fares isn't quoted on line because you can't book it. The cheapest seated fare is £33 (http://www.scotrail.co.uk/content/caledonian-sleeper-seated-advance-single.html).

 

[87031]

I guess its a case of over the phone and see what they say although the girl i spoke to earlier seemed to think it was ok to have 2 tickets but obviously one at £33 would be ideal but it seems like you gota move fast to get them

 

[garnon]

Not sure how relevant this is but :-

a) when on the Aberdeen, this arrives in P7 at Edinburgh BEFORE the inverness section arrives. The doors are unlocked.

b) When on the Inverness, this arrives in P11 at Edinburgh (which is the southern part of P7) AFTER the Aberdeen. A shunt then takes place to connect the trains. In my (limited - twice) experience, the doors were not unlocked.

So anyone on the Fort Bill hoping to join the Inverness section at Edinburgh might struggle unless via the Aberdeen section.

 

[87031]

It does seem kind of odd that on the northbound journey fort bill passengers travel on the aberdeen section and southbound they join the Inverness section, would make more sense to go the same both ways?.......Ive only done the southbound once before from fort bill but i was in a berth so didnt see exactly what went on at edinburgh. Be good to know from anyone here whos done the seated sleeper from fort bill and the process at edinburgh

 

[rail-britain]

Seems strange that Fort William-Edinburgh is £15.90 and to Westerton it's £22.10:roll: Wouldnt the easiest way be to book Fort William-Edinburgh then Falkirk Grahamston-Crewe for £33.00 and join at Edinburgh?

As I mentioned earlier, you may be refused on to the Inverness seats

Southbound seated passengers normally transfer to the Inverness (access via the Guards door) as it is usually quieter
Northbound seated passengers normally travel in the Aberdeen (as the seats are closer and to prevent disturbing the Inverness seated passengers)
However where demand varies seated passengers can be accomodated in either

 

[87031]

thanks for that info it does make sense to have some flexibilty depending on demand as to where the fort bill passengers go, the fares system is complicated at the best of times but i guess its just compounded more on this train with the fort william coaches being left at Edinburgh

 

[rail-britain]

What is really ironic is the fares on the seated..
A passenger can travel from Fort William to Westerton for £22
A passenger can travel from Inverness to Euston for £55.50

Fort William to Euston is £84.50
Westerton to Euston is £51.50
If the fare was any lower then the person travelling to Westerton would in effect be paying more!
This could result in collusion with the person getting off at Westerton passing on their ticket to someone staying on the train
Rare, but it does happen

 

[EltonRoad]

If it were me doing it, I'd never split tickets on this train. It's quite clear: you can't board at Edinburgh. Buying a ticket from Falkirk Grahamston to Euston and joining at Edinburgh off the Fort William portion wouldn't work as the Inverness and Aberdeen portions, as far as passengers are concerned, don't call at Edinburgh. And if they did allow that, then they'd have to allow people on at Edinburgh with a ticket from any sleeper stop north of Edinburgh who'd just arrived at Edinburgh on foot.

Yes there may be one or two guards who would allow it, and indeed one or two clerks on the telephone who say yes, but personally I don't think it fits the guidelines on split ticketing and I wouldn't risk it.

I'm not sure where r-b got the above fares from. As far as I can see, the cheapest Fort William to Euston ticket is £33 seated and £60 berth, notwithstanding the bargain berths. Westerton fares are the same. In fact all tiers of Highland Sleeper fares are the same to all stations on all three routes, ie Westerton = Falkirk = Inverkeithing = Fort William = Inverness = Aberdeen, from London, Crewe and Preston (I'm referring only to sleeper fares here, not inter-available tickets).

 

[87031]

Really to give the right info Scotrail should have there own ticket sales engine but because it uses the trainline it wont give a true answer to the cheapest ticket on the fort william sleeper. If for example you search on the 12th august and do Aberdeen-Euston you get £33 Inverness-Euston £33.00 but Fort William-Euston shows £84.50 for an advance single no sleeper, but if you click on it you get options about berth upper or lower.:roll:

When they sell these over the phone as instructed on the website they must have access to Inverness/Abedeen bookings then they can gauge the price as to whats been sold on those portions. The trainline cant do this so thats why you cant book online. Bottom line is do it on the phone for Unless your booking a berth.

 

[First class]

This anamoly appeared on some West Coast fares to Fort William:

Preston - Fort William SOR £161.00
Oxenholme - Fort William SOR £81.00 (50% cheaper!)

Both priced by VT.

Split tickets I think!

Interestingly, Penrith - Fort William is £87.00, MORE expensive than Oxenholme!

I'm sure that there's an easement which allows passengers from Cumbria to double back and get the sleeper!

 

[rail-britain]

I'm not sure where r-b got the above fares from. As far as I can see, the cheapest Fort William to Euston ticket is £33 seated and £60 berth, notwithstanding the bargain berths. Westerton fares are the same

I'm not quoting the chepest available, but current fares for Monday 16 July