Formula 1

[Geezertronic]

I was watching Episode 4 of Series 3 of Formula 1: Drive to Survive which was mainly about Ferrari, their troubles last year, and Vettel which made me think that the move to Aston Martin for Vettel has not been a success so far. Fair enough his final Q1 qualifying run was disrupted by Mazaspin and (ironically) Sainz so he never made it into Q2, but the crash he had with Ocon in the race was wholly avoidable and was yet another mistake by Vettel for which he rightly received punishment. What made me laugh is that he had the audacity to blame Ocon on the team radio and subsequently said he "couldn't avoid" Ocon in the media after the race... Vettel drove into him!!! Similar to Silverstone 2019 with Verstappen

 

[greatvoyager]

I was watching Episode 4 of Series 3 of Formula 1: Drive to Survive which was mainly about Ferrari, their troubles last year, and Vettel which made me think that the move to Aston Martin for Vettel has not been a success so far. Fair enough his final Q1 qualifying run was disrupted by Mazaspin and (ironically) Sainz so he never made it into Q2, but the crash he had with Ocon in the race was wholly avoidable and was yet another mistake by Vettel for which he rightly received punishment. What made me laugh is that he had the audacity to blame Ocon on the team radio and subsequently said he "couldn't avoid" Ocon in the media after the race... Vettel drove into him!!! Similar to Silverstone 2019 with Verstappen

It seems that Sebastian is not in a good place, but the race in Bahrain did him no favours.

 

[najaB]

It seems that Sebastian is not in a good place, but the race in Bahrain did him no favours.

He is not. He really should have gone off and done some other kind of racing for a season. That seems to do a decent job of resetting driver's mental state.

 

[greatvoyager]

He is not. He really should have gone off and done some other kind of racing for a season. That seems to do a decent job of resetting driver's mental state.

Absolutely agree, he could do with a sabbatical.

 

[Bald Rick]

Absolutely agree, he could do with a sabbatical.

A Sebbetical.

 

[LOL The Irony]

If Seb doesn't buck up his ideas, I see him out of Aston and the sport at the end of the season.

He is not. He really should have gone off and done some other kind of racing for a season. That seems to do a decent job of resetting driver's mental state.

Absolutely agree, he could do with a sabbatical.

I think he should've retired with grace because he could've used the excuse of the 2020 Ferrari being a bit crap.

 

[Geezertronic]

If Seb doesn't buck up his ideas, I see him out of Aston and the sport at the end of the season.


I think he should've retired with grace because he could've used the excuse of the 2020 Ferrari being a bit crap.

Problem with Vettel is when the pressure is on, he usually makes mistakes and gets out-performed by his team mate. Happened with his last season at Red Bull (2014) where he was beaten by Daniel Ricciardo, and happened for the last two years (2019 & 2020) at Ferrari where he was beaten by Charles Leclerc.

If Stroll beats him this season, I fear there will be no way back for Vettel in F1, and from an Aston Martin point of view Lawrence Stroll should take the blame for replacing his last seasons better driver Perez with Vettel

 

[najaB]

...and from an Aston Martin point of view Lawrence Stroll should take the blame for replacing his last seasons better driver Perez with Vettel

Yeah, but when you share 50% of your DNA with the person who owns the team your seat is pretty safe.

 

[DarloRich]

Vettell doesn't need a sa(e)bbatical - he just needs to understand what he is for. He is to act as a PR magnet for Force India/Racing Point/Aston Martin/Stroll F1, sponsor attractor & lead the team in producing a better car so that daddys boy lance can be made to look good.

Obviously he is struggling after his chastening Ferrari experience where he was brought in as number 1 but found out the kid he was supposed to mentor was actually the prodigal son returned to lead the team to glory and he wasn't actually needed/wanted/cared about and couldn't be afforded after the pandemic and an awful season in a car of massive uselessness after the creative/illegal fuel flow issues meant the engine power disappeared and they basically put a fiat 500 engine in the back resulting in a mobile road block.

 

[najaB]

...an awful season in a car of massive uselessness after the creative/illegal fuel flow issues meant the engine power disappeared and they basically put a fiat 500 engine in the back resulting in a mobile road block.

So, how do you *really* feel about that car?

 

[DarloRich]

So, how do you *really* feel about that car?

An awful car - shamefully bad. Ferrari chucked all their effort into a creative interpretation of the rules then had no idea what do do when they were called out and had to agree a secret non penalty don't do it again agreement with the FIA!

it is clear Ferrari pulled all investment last year to focus on development for this year and spent nothing on Vettell when they decided he was off which looks to have been before he decided he was off!

 

[Geezertronic]

Yeah, but when you share 50% of your DNA with the person who owns the team your seat is pretty safe.

Agreed, only time will tell how Stroll compares to Vettel.

I personally hope Perez has a very good season at Red Bull, didn't start off very well in Qualifying nor with the issue on the formation lap forcing him to start from the pit lane, but finishing 5th from there was a very good result so only time will tell whether he can break the curse of the Red Bull 2nd seat

 

[Peregrine 4903]

What is everyone's opinion on Kimi Raikkonen, in terms of how good a driver he was?

I have heard a range of opinions that from 2001-2007, he was arguably the fastest driver in history, and arguably on the same level as Michael Schumacher in his prime. However, it seems since then he hasn't really been able to re-deliver. Being beaten by Massa in 2008 and Massa outperformed him in 2009, before his injury. He seemed to pretty good in 2012 and 2013, but then his second ferrari stint wasn't great, with is best season arguably being 2018 and his alfa romeo stint is hard to judge.

I just find his career odd, as its very wierd for a driver to seemingly peak so early in their career, yet also have insane longevity at the same time.

 

[najaB]

What is everyone's opinion on Kimi Raikkonen, in terms of how good a driver he was?

He is a very highly-skilled, technical driver who can take a car right to the limits of its capability day in, day out. What he doesn't do on a regular basis is take things beyond the limits.

Which is a good thing (cf. Maldonado, Grosjean for what can happen) but also a bad thing (cf Hamilton, Alonso for what can also happen). I'm struggling at the moment to think of a big shunt that was Kimi's fault.

Edit: 2014 Silverstone is the one that comes to mind.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

He is a very highly-skilled, technical driver who can take a car right to the limits of its capability day in, day out. What he doesn't do on a regular basis is take things beyond the limits.

Which is a good thing (cf. Maldonado, Grosjean for what can happen) but also a bad thing (cf Hamilton, Alonso for what can also happen). I'm struggling at the moment to think of a big shunt that was Kimi's fault.

I heard though that from 2003-2006 he took his car to the limit in practially every race. I wish I was watching F1 back in the 2003 and 2005 seasons.

 

[PG]

I'm struggling at the moment to think of a big shunt that was Kimi's fault.

IIRC this one at the 2015 Austrian GP while not being a big (half the field type) shunt was pretty scary as after Kimi lost control Alonso ended up almost decapitating him - no Halo back then!

 

[JamesT]

What is everyone's opinion on Kimi Raikkonen, in terms of how good a driver he was?

I have heard a range of opinions that from 2001-2007, he was arguably the fastest driver in history, and arguably on the same level as Michael Schumacher in his prime. However, it seems since then he hasn't really been able to re-deliver. Being beaten by Massa in 2008 and Massa outperformed him in 2009, before his injury. He seemed to pretty good in 2012 and 2013, but then his second ferrari stint wasn't great, with is best season arguably being 2018 and his alfa romeo stint is hard to judge.

I just find his career odd, as its very wierd for a driver to seemingly peak so early in their career, yet also have insane longevity at the same time.

Is it that abnormal?
Two of the other drivers on the grid could be argued to have had similar careers. Alonso won his two titles in the years before Kimi (youngest world champion at the time), then was fairly close in the Ferrari during the Vettel years and hasn’t managed to be in anything competitive since.
The other one is Vettel. Four brilliant years in the Red Bull, (youngest world champion again), seemed to be a competitor for Lewis in his early Ferrari days and has faded since.

I think it does come down somewhat to the ‘luck’ of being in the right seat at the right time. All three drivers were in the arguably best car of the time in an early stage of their careers, hence their titles. Although a great driver can elevate a bad car, perhaps they can’t quite elevate it enough to make it win races.

 

[najaB]

IIRC this one at the 2015 Austrian GP while not being a big (half the field type) shunt was pretty scary as after Kimi lost control Alonso ended up almost decapitating him - no Halo back then!

I had forgotten that one entirely. It does support the point I was making though - for drivers like Kimi you have to go back years to find examples of them getting it totally wrong, whereas with drivers like Grosjean you usually only had to go back a few laps!

 

[PG]

I had forgotten that one entirely. It does support the point I was making though - for drivers like Kimi you have to go back years to find examples of them getting it totally wrong, whereas with drivers like Grosjean you usually only had to go back a few laps!

Yep I totally agree, Kimi is a class act and his mistakes were few and far between, unlike certain other drivers, ahem, the torpedo aka Kvyat!
EDIT: forgot to say F1 has to retain the 'comedy' element so no sooner does the aforementioned Kvyat depart - we now have the equally inept Mazepin

 

[najaB]

EDIT: forgot to say F1 has to retain the 'comedy' element so no sooner does the aforementioned Kvyat depart - we now have the equally inept Mazepin

I'm going to hold off judgement for a couple of races, but he's definitely not started out on the correct foot.

 

[D365]

He seemed to pretty good in 2012 and 2013, but then his second ferrari stint wasn't great, with is best season arguably being 2018 and his alfa romeo stint is hard to judge.

No “arguably” about it, 2018 was definitely his best Ferrari season since 2009. 12 podiums including one win. Räikkönen wouldn’t have been far off Vettel in the final standings if not for some bad luck through the season.

At Alfa I feel he’s doing what he’s paid for. Someone like Hulk would perform at a similar level but without the pedigree.

I'm going to hold off judgement for a couple of races, but he's definitely not started out on the correct foot.

I’m not. He’s a nasty person and a poor driver. And that was my opinion before 2020.

 

[greatvoyager]

I’m not. He’s a nasty person and a poor driver. And that was my opinion before 2020.

It's really difficult to support someone like that.

 

[najaB]

It's really difficult to support someone like that.

I agree. But I'm going to take his management at face value with their talk him being "changed" and having "learned lessons". I doubt it's true, but I'm willing to see.

 

[greatvoyager]

I agree. But I'm going to take his management at face value with their talk him being "changed" and having "learned lessons". I doubt it's true, but I'm willing to see.

That’s fair, but personally I am sceptical.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Apr 2021 ==

Just came across this, hope it’s not going to make Red Bull have any issues.

Honda-powered cars closing in on penalties at Imola | PlanetF1

Two races into the 2021 championship and the Honda-powered cars may be showing improved pace, but they are down on reliability.

www.planetf1.com

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Hamilton on pole, but Perez has outqualified Verstappen, amazing!

Bottas with a bad session down in P8.

 

[greatvoyager]

Hamilton on pole, but Perez has outqualified Verstappen, amazing!

Bottas with a bad session down in P8.

I’ll be interested to see if Perez can finish ahead, or if Red Bull will do a strategy that benefits Verstappen.

 

[Domh245]

Hamilton on pole, but Perez has outqualified Verstappen, amazing!

Bottas with a bad session down in P8.

Indeed, a shocking session for Bottas, but it's a nice inversion from last weekend where it was 2 Mercs vs 1 Red Bull. Worth noting that Verstappen had a bit of an off track moment at Tamburello on his final flying lap, but still an excellent result for Perez

Gutted for Norris - would have been right up at the front of the grid if he hadn't gone just outside of track limits at T9

 

[JamesT]

I’ll be interested to see if Perez can finish ahead, or if Red Bull will do a strategy that benefits Verstappen.

Perez will be starting on the Softs unlike Hamilton and Verstappen. I think he’ll have to try beating Hamilton off the line, otherwise he’ll get done by the other two needing one fewer stop.

 

[greatvoyager]

Indeed, a shocking session for Bottas, but it's a nice inversion from last weekend where it was 2 Mercs vs 1 Red Bull. Worth noting that Verstappen had a bit of an off track moment at Tamburello on his final flying lap, but still an excellent result for Perez

Gutted for Norris - would have been right up at the front of the grid if he hadn't gone just outside of track limits at T9

This gives Red Bull a chance, unless Bottas can climb up to the front after a few laps.

 

[najaB]

I’ll be interested to see if Perez can finish ahead, or if Red Bull will do a strategy that benefits Verstappen.

Red Bull are basically fighting two races both of which depend on Lewis having a poor start. Perez needs to get out front and build up a pit stop sized lead, and Max needs be in front of Hamilton in the first stint.

Fortunately they aren't incompatible strategies.