Former snack/drinks service within Southeastern carriages (Kent)

[Swearby]

When I was a child, I remember the use of a snack/drinks roller carrier which ran through each end of the Southeastern carriages, and it went back to the unit on one of the carriages where the staff operated it. I believe this was more than 17 years ago but I do remember it vividly. The roller was filled with soft drinks and snacks which you could pay with cash. The thought's come to my mind and I've realised that I haven't seen these for a good several years now on any modern Southeastern carriage, or any Thameslink carriage. I'm aware the north area still does this (LNER) and markets it well; has its own app for ordering and such, and the service is well regarded as being good.

I wanted to ask why Southeastern stopped doing this service? Was it because the usage was far below the number it needed to be for it to be a good use of funds, later turning out to be a cost cutting measure? or did it fall because of privatization, any regulation changes, or just putting the responsibility onto other operators? What happened for it to stop?

I also noticed Southeastern stations (Gillingham, Chatham, etc) which operate at a highly busy level has Decorum venching machines everywhere on each side of the platform, and the vending machines have seen an increase to other related stations like these in the past few years. It's operated by a third party of course so whenever a problem occurs with something you've ordered, you have to contact Decorum privately for a refund, taking away the responsibility from the stations operators themselves.

Is this all an intentional matter by removing less responsibility from the station operators themselves and outsourcing third parties for matters like this? I thought the snack/drinks roller carrier service within the carriages was pretty good for train patrons but I never really understood why it was a short lived thing, even when other train operators are still utilizing the service well.

Thanks

 

[hexagon789]

When I was a child, I remember the use of a snack/drinks roller carrier which ran through each end of the Southeastern carriages, and it went back to the unit on one of the carriages where the staff operated it. I believe this was more than 17 years ago but I do remember it vividly. The roller was filled with soft drinks and snacks which you could pay with cash. The thought's come to my mind and I've realised that I haven't seen these for a good several years now on any modern Southeastern carriage, or any Thameslink carriage. I'm aware the north area still does this (LNER) and markets it well; has its own app for ordering and such, and the service is well regarded as being good.

I wanted to ask why Southeastern stopped doing this service? Was it because the usage was far below the number it needed to be for it to be a good use of funds, later turning out to be a cost cutting measure? or did it fall because of privatization, any regulation changes, or just putting the responsibility onto other operators? What happened for it to stop?

I also noticed Southeastern stations (Gillingham, Chatham, etc) which operate at a highly busy level has Decorum venching machines everywhere on each side of the platform, and the vending machines have seen an increase to other related stations like these in the past few years. It's operated by a third party of course so whenever a problem occurs with something you've ordered, you have to contact Decorum privately for a refund, taking away the responsibility from the stations operators themselves.

Is this all an intentional matter by removing less responsibility from the station operators themselves and outsourcing third parties for matters like this? I thought the snack/drinks roller carrier service within the carriages was pretty good for train patrons but I never really understood why it was a short lived thing, even when other train operators are still utilizing the service well.

Thanks

2014 I believe Southeastern ended their trolley service. It was contracted out to Rail Gourmet, who did/do provide similar services for other operators.

They weren't the only to end it due to unviability - SWR, Southern, Chiltern and a few others used to have at-seat trolley or even buffet counter services but ended them during the last 10 years or so due to being unviable.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

I can understand Southeastern ending it on the Charing Cross to Dover leg but the Chatham line is still competitive with the Javelin to get to Victoria and is a bit of a slog without refreshments.

I too remember Southern doing it, although I have a vague memory of my parents being rather unsatisfied with the trolley service the last time I remember it.

 

[The exile]

The essential problems with a trolley service are 1) if the train is overcrowded it can’t do its job but if the train isn’t busy it doesn’t get enough customers. 2) it’s rarely there when you actually want it - especially when journey times are relatively short (under 2 hours). 2 - both in terms of whether it’s actually provided as advertised and also when it reaches you. The number of times I’ve been in longer journeys and the trolley’s only arrived when there’s hardly time to drink the coffee before getting off…

 

[driverd]

I wanted to ask why Southeastern stopped doing this service? Was it because the usage was far below the number it needed to be for it to be a good use of funds, later turning out to be a cost cutting measure? or did it fall because of privatization, any regulation changes, or just putting the responsibility onto other operators? What happened for it to stop?

I can't speak for southeastern, but for many operators (maybe all), catering runs at a loss and is only really provided to enhance the customer service offering. On long distance services, this usually doubles as part of the first class offer.

If you think of the huge growth of station based retailers, you can understand why. The average customer would prefer the choice of atleast 3 brands of fresh coffee/sandwiches (at most major stations), and even at smaller LSE stations, you often get a cafe/little independent coffee cart before you board. Comparing this to the on-train offering of instant coffee (if it can even get down to you) and a depressed-looking sandwich, it's easy to see why the future wasn't on-board catering.

Is this all an intentional matter by removing less responsibility from the station operators themselves and outsourcing third parties for matters like this? I thought the snack/drinks roller carrier service within the carriages was pretty good for train patrons but I never really understood why it was a short lived thing, even when other train operators are still utilizing the service well.

It's not so much about removing responsibility and more about maximising both customer service and profitability. From the TOCs point of view, catering isn't their core business and it's not something they would be dedicating too much time/investment into. A small business or even a larger business, who specialise in catering, will be more likely to do catering well. It also guarantees an income to the TOC without the risk of their in-house team getting it fundamentally wrong. It's essentially win-win, although yes, with some vending machine related drawbacks.

 

[Rescars]

There are some practical considerations related to the trolleys themselves. They need to be large enough to carry sufficient stock securely, be narrow enough to fit the aisle between the seats, be easy to move and steer, be stable enough despite the movement of the train (which is why in many designs boiling hot water is pumped rather than taken off by gravity) to name a few. That's before stocking the trolley, getting the trolley to the right train, loading it and then navigating it through a crowded train, circumventing awkward luggage, bicycles, etc to generate an uncertain amount of income. Maybe not a very attractive proposition for a TOC?

 

[yorksrob]

I used to occasionally get a beer (Shepherd Neame - local brewery) on the train from Ashford to Charing Cross.

Shame it went, but I suppose that high speed line did for it - took away too many of the longer distance passengers perhaps.

 

[Pyewipecarshed]

I can't speak for southeastern, but for many operators (maybe all), catering runs at a loss and is only really provided to enhance the customer service offering. On long distance services, this usually doubles as part of the first class offer.

If you think of the huge growth of station based retailers, you can understand why. The average customer would prefer the choice of atleast 3 brands of fresh coffee/sandwiches (at most major stations), and even at smaller LSE stations, you often get a cafe/little independent coffee cart before you board. Comparing this to the on-train offering of instant coffee (if it can even get down to you) and a depressed-looking sandwich, it's easy to see why the future wasn't on-board catering.



It's not so much about removing responsibility and more about maximising both customer service and profitability. From the TOCs point of view, catering isn't their core business and it's not something they would be dedicating too much time/investment into. A small business or even a larger business, who specialise in catering, will be more likely to do catering well. It also guarantees an income to the TOC without the risk of their in-house team getting it fundamentally wrong. It's essentially win-win, although yes, with some vending machine related drawbacks.

This hits the nail on the head; the trolley service is loss-making and the TOCs who choose to keep it do so simply as a customer service offering.
When I worked as a trolley steward in the mid-90s the service made a modest profit, but the inexorable rise of coffee shops and food outlets within stations since then has massively reduced the market for refreshments onboard.

 

[yorksrob]

I can't speak for southeastern, but for many operators (maybe all), catering runs at a loss and is only really provided to enhance the customer service offering. On long distance services, this usually doubles as part of the first class offer.

If you think of the huge growth of station based retailers, you can understand why. The average customer would prefer the choice of atleast 3 brands of fresh coffee/sandwiches (at most major stations), and even at smaller LSE stations, you often get a cafe/little independent coffee cart before you board. Comparing this to the on-train offering of instant coffee (if it can even get down to you) and a depressed-looking sandwich, it's easy to see why the future wasn't on-board catering.



It's not so much about removing responsibility and more about maximising both customer service and profitability. From the TOCs point of view, catering isn't their core business and it's not something they would be dedicating too much time/investment into. A small business or even a larger business, who specialise in catering, will be more likely to do catering well. It also guarantees an income to the TOC without the risk of their in-house team getting it fundamentally wrong. It's essentially win-win, although yes, with some vending machine related drawbacks.

That said, if you get on at somewhere on a damp grey morning without much around (like Martin Mill) its a long slog up to the City without a hot drink.

 

[frankmoh]

I can't speak for southeastern, but for many operators (maybe all), catering runs at a loss and is only really provided to enhance the customer service offering. On long distance services, this usually doubles as part of the first class offer.

Southeastern have never really been known to care for customers given how irregularly they cleean their trains. At least they leave first class open for the masses on the 465s.

 

[Cricketer8for9]

That said, if you get on at somewhere on a damp grey morning without much around (like Martin Mill) its a long slog up to the City without a hot drink.

And how many people do that slog?

 

[yorksrob]

And how many people do that slog?

Or Westenhanger, or Sandling Junction or Pluckley.....