Former Northern bus depot

[robertclark125]

When I was in Newcastle in 2005, I was walking down Pilgrim Street, and on a side street, there was a building a short way down, with a tan frontage. On the top of that tan frontage, was NORTHERN and an NBC logo, both faded.

This was 2005, so obviously, does said building still exist. If so, who uses it? I presume it was the former Newcastle depot for Northern General, so when did it close as well?

And if anyone knows what street it's on, could they please put me out my misery and tell me!

 

[Darandio]

Pretty sure that would be Worswick Street and the old bus station/depot.

Is this it?

http://s0.geograph.org.uk/photos/10/84/108434_601a7bd5.jpg

 

[TrainBrain185]

Pretty sure that would be Worswick Street and the old bus station/depot.

Is this it?

http://s0.geograph.org.uk/photos/10/84/108434_601a7bd5.jpg

Yes, was thinking that myself. From my knowledge of Worswick Street bus station, it served buses mainly heading south of the Tyne through to destinations serving County Durham and Cleveland. It closed to bus operations soon after the Metro System opened from Heworth and Northern integrated its services to link with Metro. It did however serve as a holding area for Northern's Hackney Carriage Taxi unit called "Metro Taxis" in the late 80's. Maybe more people can add further to what happened beyond that date....

 

[robertclark125]

It is indeed that structure. Many thanks to you all. Anyone happen to know what it's used for now, or even if it still stands?

 

[Darandio]

I am not so sure about the dates because I am pretty sure the 723 was running to Worswick Street until about 93 from which it then started terminating at Eldon Square.

I think the building still stands as an "unofficial" car park. Hope to be corrected on this though.

 

[robertclark125]

http://www.nebppregne.fpic.co.uk/p45200797.html

Theres a picture of it in use.

 

[Darandio]

After more digging, a very recent photo, backed up as the "unoffical car park". It is blogged as September 2009 and is believable looking at the numberplates.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_fbuYL1Y4VSc/Sr-jOhV1e1I/AAAAAAAAKV4/NWTyOLfZEaQ/s1600-h/P1020945.JPG

Therefore, we can safely assume it still stands.

 

[robertclark125]

Yeah, that's it, exactly as I remember it. Incidentally, the station closed in 1998, when Go North East moved its services to Eldon Square. One thing I did notice, the stance numbers are still on the pillars!

A mate claims GNE were talking about reopening it, but can anyone cofirm?

 

[142094]

It is stil there, but a was said is used as a car park. I'm sure I can remember catching a coach from there once (after 1990), but can't remember if this was for an outing rather than normal passenger service.

IIRC A few years ago they wanted to re-open it to take some of the pressure of Haymarket. As also was mentioned it was used mostly for buses going south over the Tyne, whereas Haymarket went north.

There is still a depot at Chester-le-Street with the Northern name on it, and I think some could be found at Darlington a few years back too.

 

[alexdodds]

That Northern bus liverey takes my back to my childhood days when my Mam used to take me on the bus to Newcastle. Service 724 to Eldon Square was what I used to get.

To admitt I do have a slight intrest in buses but not as much as the railways

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Many motorists do use this former bus station as a free carpark (and disregard the notices treatening wheel clamping). But the whole block and the surrounding blocks are all due for develoment into a mixed-use retail and commercial complex, including a multiplex cinema etc. Lots of other buildings in the surrounding area have been left empty in anticipation of the development. Detail and plans here.
You can see that the southern edge of the area is actually formed by the ECML just to the NE of Newcastle Central station.

Nothing much has happened to the proposals since the recession hit the commercial real estate sector worst than most, and I guess that isn't likely to pick up until last, either. The Plans were formally adopted by Newcastle City Council though, in July '09. Ever the optomists!

Some developement has taken place nearby (still within that plan). The completely re-built Central Library being the most significant.
Its just possible that the site would be ripe for the development of more custom built student accomodation, which is in short supply and the Universities are still in expansion, even if the retail and transport sectors aren't.

 

[142094]

I would question if student housing in Newcastle is in short supply. It seems anywhere between the Central Motorway and the Ouseburn is now being turned over for student housing, which is going to lead to many problems in the near future. Newcastle City Council's plan for all students to live in halls all through their university life seems very stupid, even the student union has been campaigning against it.

And yes, I am a student myself.

 

[LMS6202]

I doubt if Worswick Street would re-open. We once had 4 bus stations in Ncle but are now down to two. Percy Street and Eldon Square which is a poky little site not fit for purpose. Often cluttered with buses trying to get to their stand or leave on their way. The old under cover Eldon Square was bad but this effort is pathetic
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I would question if student housing in Newcastle is in short supply. It seems anywhere between the Central Motorway and the Ouseburn is now being turned over for student housing, which is going to lead to many problems in the near future. Newcastle City Council's plan for all students to live in halls all through their university life seems very stupid, even the student union has been campaigning against it.

And yes, I am a student myself.

Shhh, You mustn't expect common sense from councils lad. whispers behind hand "they are politicians"

 

[142094]

Well it may well change when the Lib Dems get voted out at the next election.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Hmmm. Got your facts right?
Its commercial developers who'd invest in constructing student accomodation not the council or any other public sector body. The developers do it because they reckon it will repay them handsomely while the Universities continue to expand.
The developer of the 2000 bed site in Shieldfield (which may not now proceed) was expecting to spend £50million. The 3 Lib Dem Councillors representing the Ouseburn Ward all objected to the plans. Council Officers did not have adequate grounds in Planning Law to refuse the development.
Other objectors include lobby groups of independent & private landlords who let out converted terraced housing.
It remains a fact that constructing student accomodation can be very lucrative - at a time when construction industry is finding very few buyers for more retail units, hotels, offices etc. and while the housing market is still sluggish.

 

[142094]

The city council have estimated that approximately 5,000 more beds will be needed, however this estimate also includes the supposed need for halls/rooms for second and third year students. This can be seen in Evening Chronicle articles:

Article 1

and

Article 2

In my experience, the majority of second and third year students do not want to live in halls. Only one person I know from my first year lives in halls again this year, and that person is a foreign student. Everyone else lives in rented accomodation. Therefore there should not be this supposed need for 5,000 more rooms.

The second thing is the location of most of the new developments. The Shieldfield area has now become saturated, with most vacant areas of land now being developed for student housing. The same problem that occurs in areas like Heaton and Jesmond will start to occur here. The council has not thought this through, has not taken into account of residents and has not listened to its own councillors. A much better idea would be to put students in areas away from local housing, which could have been done in areas around the arena, which would not have affected many people.

Thirdly, when Quay Point was suggested to us at a ward meeting, we were told that it would be for students and key workers. I would love to know how many living there are actually key workers.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Don't think we can carry on this debate much longer on a Rail Forum - poss on www.skyscrapercity.com Newcastle Metro Area.
I'll respond beifly here, though:
These are Media quotes you've supplied (and as I said, there are biased interest groups at work here - for good commercial reasons- , and you've also acknowledged that there are student lobbyists working on these issues). We shouldn't expect to learn much from the Press.

The 5/6000 custom built bed spaces are not actually likely to be built.
There's no competing demand on "converted traditional" terraced housing, whether the Universities continue their growth as planned or not.

The concerns over uncontrolled private landlords buying up any and every avail property and letting them out to short-term student lets WITHOUT taking responsibility for the upkeep and development of the property is an issue which DOES need to be addressed. The tennant only suffers for 9 months. The property and the neighbourhood can suffer forever. This is a common pattern with lots of private "chancers" in the buy-to-le market. If you know Newcastle well, then this is what led to the decline of Fenham 20 years ago where several blocks simply had to be demolished. Similar situations apply in Leeds, Manchester, Bristol and Nottinham.

The city's policy means what it says - it would give students (and others) a choice, and probably through simple market economics, would consequently lower prices.

The Universities have made it very clear that they do intend to continue their expansion, so the demand for housing will increase - that demand must be met from somewhere, and ideally without forcing prices up.

(Home owners and landlords will loose some asset value if these developments go forward. However, I understand that Metnor, the Shieldfield developer, has put the major part of the project on hold and is only developing the one block on Stoddart Street at present).

In other words, I can't see how students can possibly loose! They will benefit from more choice in where they live, and better prices.
Now, can we get back to rail, please?

 

[142094]

Fair enough, you make some good points, but I still think that the perceived demand is wrong, and most students will not want to live in these purpose built halls, even if they are cheaper and better quality.

Back to the OP, I haven't heard anything more about the Pilgrim St developments in a while (granted I'm not in Newcastle all the time, but still do look out on the Journal and Chronicle websites). Guessing this is one of the casualties of the recession?

TBH, it would probably be a good idea reopening the bus station, there is a lot of congestion in the area around Market Street, John Dobson Street, New Bridge Street West and Pilgrim Street next to the old Odeon, and there is always buses standing waiting to get to the bus stops. Perhaps if certain buses, such as those that go over the Tyne Bridge, and certain Stagecoach ones that go to Red House Farm etc that currently stable at the east end of Market Street were rerouted to wait there, there might be a better flow of trafic.

 

[LMS6202]

Hmmm. Got your facts right?
Its commercial developers who'd invest in constructing student accomodation not the council or any other public sector body. The developers do it because they reckon it will repay them handsomely while the Universities continue to expand.
The developer of the 2000 bed site in Shieldfield (which may not now proceed) was expecting to spend £50million. The 3 Lib Dem Councillors representing the Ouseburn Ward all objected to the plans. Council Officers did not have adequate grounds in Planning Law to refuse the development.
Other objectors include lobby groups of independent & private landlords who let out converted terraced housing.
It remains a fact that constructing student accomodation can be very lucrative - at a time when construction industry is finding very few buyers for more retail units, hotels, offices etc. and while the housing market is still sluggish.

IIRC, there's few buildings in Newcastle that are empty and could be made into student accommodation without a new build. Can't, for the life of me, remember where. One place where there is plenty of land going spare is in the Metrocente area but of course that is Gateshead not Newcastle.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Yes, there are, not v. many, but some - even within walking distance of the centre.
However, the traditional approach of developers has been (and still is) to buy sites/buildings while they are at their lowest value (ideally after a few years of decline, decay, rot, invasions by pidgeons and vandals, ice, sun and other elements until finally it is almost unrepairable. Then they buy, demolish, build and finally let them.
This scenario is slowly being acted out across Newcastle and most other UK cities. The tax implications of new-build vs. refurb don't help.

I beleive this site deprecates links to others (other than acknowledements) but I think I'll be excused for this link to skyskrapercity's Newcastle developments summary page.
Even the old BR parcels office is vacant and available to buy - but all the new developments are aquisition, demolision, abomination (architectural and construction standards!), extorsion (high rents).
That site will also keep you informed of the construction of the New Tyne Tunnel (road only, of course) and others.

 

[142094]

A lot of land there was supposed to be going for re-development, but haven't heard much since. A logical place would be somewhere near to a Metro line on the coast loop. Plenty of cheap land between Wallsend and Hadrian Road.

 

[LMS6202]

While on this subject do any more of you get niggling little suspicions when a long empty but structurally sound building suddenly catches fire for no apparent reason? There was/is a building on the north Tyne bank in Newcastle that I think had some sort of preservation order on it that got burnt down not so long ago. Makes me wonder does that.

 

[142094]

IIRC it was out down as arson but don't think anyone was caught. That place has been set alight a few times in the past 15-10 years or so.

Another building to go up in flames like this was further along the river just past the Ouseburn. Now it is houses (used to be a factory) but again this went up in flames and was redeveloped pretty quickly. The same happened at the mechanics garage at the end of the Glasshouse Bridge.