Former 4 track section WCML copull

[Ships]

A question for the local buffs, on my travels and again whilst reviewing HD inboard footage for work I noticed on the stretch of CGJ5 10m300y - 13m 500y ish there is 4 track head span (with only the current two tracks actually having OLE). Does anyone know if why this is? The bits before and after are on standard OLE masts implying it was two track when the knitting was put up, but Im trying to find out if the bits under head span where ever four track whilst the line was electrified.

 

[L+Y]

Im trying to find out if the bits under head span where ever four track whilst the line was electrified.

They weren't. The Slow lines south of Euxton Junction was removed in about 1973, I think: so after the headspans were put up, but before the catenary was energised. There are photos online of the situation in 72/73 somewhere that I'll try to dig out: I think the Up Slow was taken out of use first, with the Down Slow following a little later.

 

[Ships]

They weren't. The Slow lines south of Euxton Junction was removed in about 1973, I think: so after the headspans were put up, but before the catenary was energised. There are photos online of the situation in 72/73 somewhere that I'll try to dig out: I think the Up Slow was taken out of use first, with the Down Slow following a little later.

Thanks for clearing that up! Would be good to see the photos! Was it originally 4 track all the way to Wigan?

 

[martinsh]

Was it originally 4 track all the way to Wigan?

There was a Wigan avoiding line around the east side of the town - details not to hand at the moment.

 

[chorleyjeff]

Thanks for clearing that up! Would be good to see the photos! Was it originally 4 track all the way to Wigan?

No.
At Standish the 4 lines split into 2pairs with one pair goin through Wigan North Western and the other two were a Wigan avoiding line that also linked in with other lines including a line to manchester used by the occasional Preston to manchester train.

 

[Ships]

When was the avoiding line done away with?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

There was a WCRM plan to reinstate the Down Slow from Standish to Balshaw Lane as a reversible line, and should have been done in CP4 as a WCML capacity improvement.
However it was quietly dropped.
So the 75mph Liverpool-Blackpool stopper, and freight, continue to get in the way of 125mph Pendolinos/Voyagers on the 8-mile stretch between Wigan and Balshaw Lane.

 

[jopsuk]

1914 diagram of the Wigan area!

 

[Ships]

Very interesting! I would be surprised if something like this isn't mooted again in CP6 with the impending capacity crunch. Especially if the HS2 classic compatable stock starts running up there.

 

[WatcherZero]

Ive always been a bit confused about the inconsistencies, for example immediately north of north western the bridge Frog Lane looks to have always been a double track span and the embankment is pretty narrow but a bit further on over Park Lane and Buckley St it used to have a four track span but now only has a two track span and the embankment slops are much shallower suggesting they used to be wider. There also looks to be a former possibly single track alignment just past Gidlow lane that heads off towards the farm on Standish Wood Lane (Coal pit?) that doesnt appear on any maps.

Through Standish and beyond the alignment looks to be easily widenable to four track without demolition or loss of neighbouring property. Its just the exit of Wigan NW that looks to be the main issue, widening the embankment even slightly would cause loss of gardens in neighbouring propertys and possibly some demolition (possibly a viaduct would minimise the extra land take required but that would be much more expensive).

Its something ive been thinking about too and looking around on the ground whenever I pass with the impact of HS2 in mind.

 

[snowball]

When was the avoiding line done away with?

I think either at the time of electrification or not long before.

I think HS2 had their eyes on part of the alignment until they decided to stop south of Wigan.

 

[L+Y]

Thanks for clearing that up! Would be good to see the photos! Was it originally 4 track all the way to Wigan?

Two shots here, from David Flitcroft's website.

The first shot, of 1971, shows all four lines still in use. By 1973, the wires are up (not energised) and the slow lines are being dismantled.

The Wigan avoiding lines were known as the Whelley Loop, and left the WCML at Standish Junction. The line ran around the east of Wigan, and had connections to the L&Y line to Hindley and Bolton, as well as the closed GCR route into Wigan (closed 1964) and the Lancashire Union line to Chorley and Blackburn (closed 1971). The Whelley Loop itself was taken out of use in 1976, iirc.

 

[Springs Branch]

When was the avoiding line done away with?

The Wigan Avoiding (Whelley) line closed to regular traffic when mechanical signalling was removed & the northern part of Warrington PSB area was commissioned on 1st October 1972.
However the Whelley line and the slow line from Standish Junction to Balshaw Lane Junction was left in place for diversions until completion of the electrification project between Weaver Jn and Preston in July 1973.
After the start of electric trains, the Whelley line lingered on as a basically disused single line between Balshaw Lane and Bamfurlong for a few years until formally closed & lifted in the mid-70s.

This is the reason for today's headspan supports on the 2-track section between Standish and Balshaw Lane Junctions - the electrification overhead had to be installed (but was not energized) during 1971/72, with the slow lines still in place and in regular use.

It has only ever been double track between Wigan NW and Standish Jn (although there were one or two locations with sidings, loops etc which served coal mines to the west of the WCML).

One other piece of trivia - today's Balshaw Lane Junction, where the slow and fast lines converge, was only established at the time of re-signalling/electrification. In steam days, the slow and fast lines ran as parallel but unconnected pairs of tracks from Standish Jn, through Coppull to Euxton Jn. Pity BR did not just rebuild Standish Junction in 1972 and have 4 tracks from there through to Preston.

At the time all this happened, I was an eager, bike-riding teenage trainspotter, living in the area. I still remember the horror turning up trackside with my mate one Saturday afternoon in late 1972, and seeing gangs of workmen chopping down all the semaphore signals, and disappointment when there were no more loose-coupled goods trains hauled by Class 25s or Class 40s clanking along the Whelley line.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

One other piece of trivia - today's Balshaw Lane Junction, where the slow and fast lines converge, was only established at the time of re-signalling/electrification. In steam days, the slow and fast lines ran as parallel but unconnected pairs of tracks from Standish Jn, through Coppull to Euxton Jn. Pity BR did not just rebuild Standish Junction in 1972 and have 4 tracks from there through to Preston.

So the current Down line used to be the Up Slow, and the Up line the former Down Fast?

 

[Springs Branch]

So the current Down line used to be the Up Slow, and the Up line the former Down Fast?

Layout of tracks pre-1973 was (west to east) Down Slow, Up Slow, Down Fast, Up Fast.
Down & Up Slow were removed. Current Down line was the Down Fast, current Up line was the Up Fast.

Despite the headspan OLE covering 4 track widths from Standish Jn to Balshaw Lane Jn, no catenary was ever strung on the western (slow lines) side, resulting in a slightly "unbalanced" appearance from the time of installation.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Layout of tracks pre-1973 was (west to east) Down Slow, Up Slow, Down Fast, Up Fast.
Down & Up Slow were removed. Current Down line was the Down Fast, current Up line was the Up Fast.

I never realised there used to be two tracks to the west of the current lines.
Shows how much nature has reclaimed the trackbed.

 

[billio]

At the time all this happened, I was an eager, bike-riding teenage trainspotter, living in the area. I still remember the horror turning up trackside with my mate one Saturday afternoon in late 1972, and seeing gangs of workmen chopping down all the semaphore signals, and disappointment when there were no more loose-coupled goods trains hauled by Class 25s or Class 40s clanking along the Whelley line.

I seem to remember visiting a closed Standish station when I was young. The station had subsided to the extent that windows were at or below platform level. Is this a false memory ?.

 

[Dawg]

Depends how old you are! Standish Jct (and Boars Head Jct) were closed by B.R in 1949; I would imagine both were underused even back then, but most probably they were shut to enable the then new Stanier Pacific hauled expresses a faster run to Preston without stopping trains getting in the way. Although Standish jct platforms were on the slow lines... Still, the amount of traffic on the railways back then would have needed every available extra minute on the WCML slow or fast line....


I have many many photos of both stations before and after closure.

Certainly by 1957 both stations had their platform buildings and edges demolished....


B.R should never have shut the Whelley loop - it could have been essentially 4 track all the way down to Lowton.

Btw - just by looking at the extra width of the Buckley St and Park Rd bridge buttresses, plans were obviously afoot to widen the line as far as the 1837 Frog Lane bridge back in the late 19th century but was never realised





Regarding the track bed a little further north - this was known as rylands sidings and served the Standish collieries until 1963 - there is mention of these sidings still being in place by 1973 - even after the construction of Spencer Road bridge; anyone confirm this?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Standish Jct station c1957 - 'Midland' Compound 4-4-0 on the fast lines heading south to Wigan.

 

[chorleyjeff]

Depends how old you are! Standish Jct (and Boars Head Jct) were closed by B.R in 1949; I would imagine both were underused even back then, but most probably they were shut to enable the then new Stanier Pacific hauled expresses a faster run to Preston without stopping trains getting in the way. Although Standish jct platforms were on the slow lines... Still, the amount of traffic on the railways back then would have needed every available extra minute on the WCML slow or fast line....

That's not my recollection of the mid 1950s to mid 1960s.
The most congested bit seemed to be the 4 track section South of Preston before the Liverpool/EL lines diverged. Then the Bolton/Manchester line diverged at Euxton.
So South of Euxton there was far less traffic. And there was not much main line goods traffic during the day. Most of the daytime goods traffic seemed tobe local transfers. My memory is that the goods traffic got more active after about 7pm with through freights using the fast lines. A similar situation existed North of Preston where the Blackpool lines diverged. It may be telling that the Blackpool line was 4 lines whereas theWCML was 2 lines.
I think the railway at Preston seemed more busy than now because there were so many shunting, pilot and local transfer freights and light engines around that there was an illusion of much actual business being done.

 

[Springs Branch]

I seem to remember visiting a closed Standish station when I was young. The station had subsided to the extent that windows were at or below platform level. Is this a false memory ?.

Depends how old you are! Standish Jct (and Boars Head Jct) were closed by B.R in 1949; I would imagine both were underused even back then, but most probably they were shut to enable the then new Stanier Pacific hauled expresses a faster run to Preston without stopping trains getting in the way. Although Standish jct platforms were on the slow lines... Still, the amount of traffic on the railways back then would have needed every available extra minute on the WCML slow or fast line....
............
I have many many photos of both stations before and after closure.
Certainly by 1957 both stations had their platform buildings and edges demolished....

Regarding subsidence, it's quite possible the station buildings did sink. There were many old coal mines in the area which were not far underground and caused a lot of problems with subsidence, as was common all over South Lancashire. The buildings at Standish station seemed to be timber, except for several large, out-of-proportion brick chimney stacks.

By the time I got to visit Standish Jct, the station and platform were long gone, so I can't confirm this observation.


I have several books with steam era photos at Standish. It appears the track layout & signalling at the junction were substantially altered at intervals over the years.

In four-track days, there were two separate double-track bridges carrying the railway over Rectory Lane. The station was immediately north of the road bridges and the junctions with the Whelley line were just south. There was quite a gap between the two bridges and the entrance to the up platform was from street level in this gap.

• In LMS days, it seems the western bridge carried down & up slow lines (which served the station platforms), the eastern bridge carried down & up fast (no platforms on fast lines).
• In BR days (1950s and 60s after closure of Standish station) the western bridge carried down slow & down fast; eastern bridge carried up fast & up slow, which became the up Wigan and up Whelley.
• In early 1970s, just prior to electrification, a simplified layout came into use. Western bridge carried only the down Whelley, eastern bridge had down main & up main (which became up Wigan & up Whelley).
• After re-signalling & electrification, from mid-1970s there was just the down & up mains running over the eastern bridge - as today.

I wonder if the closure of the station was at least partially prompted by BR wanting to re-align the fast and slow lines through the junction around 1950? There would be no point keeping a station served by just the down slow and down fast lines.

 

[Dawg]

Just a thought on my part


Makes sense that north of Euxton was busiest...



As to the closure of Standish Station - I pass the site nearly every day heading to work. Even after substantial housing development in the area, it is still pretty remote from Standish village; back in 1949 in the days when Lancashire folks lived near their place of work, it would have been even more remote and a bit pointless (?)


I do remember reading that the WCML saw many station closures North of Crewe in the late 40's/early '50's which was to improve the speed of express trains...

 

[WatcherZero]

I suppose it would have served Whitley as well, which was developed around the turn of the century.

 

[John Webb]

Depends how old you are! Standish Jct (and Boars Head Jct) were closed by B.R in 1949; I would imagine both were underused even back then, but most probably they were shut to enable the then new Stanier Pacific hauled expresses a faster run to Preston without stopping trains getting in the way.......

Information on Boars Head Jct can be found at: http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/b/boars_head/index.shtml