Forgot Railcard

[pol]

Hi everyone. I bought a zones 1-6 travelcard with the 16-25 railcard discount at raynes park from the machines and used it around london. when i tried to enter the barriers at waterloo to go to surbiton (my final destination) i was stopped and asked for my railcard, which i then realised i did not have on me. its usually in the front pocket of my bag so i never have to check whether i have it, which I explained apologetically. (I later found it at home, it must have fallen out somehow). The man took my details and I have received a letter 'warning in lieu of prosecution' asking me to pay £50 pounds costs and accept 'liability for your actions' and 'an undertaking not to repeat the offence' in order to avoid going to court under the regulation of the railways act 1889 5(3)a or 5(3)b.

The strange thing about the letter is that it does not name the offence I am alleged to have committed, it only offers an example of an offence, which is travelling with intent to avoid payment. So this is my problem: At this point I will find it very very difficult to pay the £50 (which I must do in the next 10 days), but also I cannot accept liability for an offence I did not commit - not only is it not stated what I am accused of, but surely if I can present a railcard that was valid and in date on the day in question it will be obvious that i did not intend to travel without paying the correct fare?

Do you think I could get the costs waived if I called up or wrote to South West Trains with proof of my railcard? The worry is that if I delay or try to fight it I will be prosecuted or made to pay even more costs. This is probably not relevant, but on the day in question they confiscated my travelcard leaving me with no money or means to get home and in tears (i am suffering from anxiety and depression). The station staff were compassionate but explained they could not override an employee of SWT by letting me on the train - fair enough. But I was facing a five hour walk at night until a passing commuter took pity on me and bought me a ticket. It seemed very cruel to leave a young woman alone, upset and with absolutely no means of getting home. Any help and advice is greatly appreciated.

 

[bb21]

You can try and plea with them by sending in a copy of your Railcard, but discretion cannot be guaranteed.

Let's be straight. You purchased a Railcard-discounted ticket despite not having the Railcard on you. Unfortunately the onus is on you to check that you have your Railcard with you, and it is a condition of use of the Railcard that you must carry it with you on your journeys at all times. While you may not have intentionally tried to deceive the train company, I am certainly not sure how your actions would be interpreted by court, as "intent" is about what your actions say, not what you were thinking, so I would be much less confident than you of your claim that it is an offence you did not commit.

You are also guilty of the lesser offence of failure to present a valid ticket on demand, as against Condition 18(1) of the Railway Byelaws, which is yet again, a criminal offence.

When you say that they took the ticket off you, are you sure that they did not give you anything to enable you to complete your journey? That sounds highly unusual to me.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . . also I cannot accept liability for an offence I did not commit . . .

Actually, you are not being asked to accept liability for the offence. You are being offered an alternative to liability, which I think you could view favourably in comparison to liability (a fine + the fare + prosecution costs + victim surcharge).

And I'm sorry to say that it appears to me that you probably did commit an offence. At the very least, a Byelaw 18 offence.

- not only is it not stated what I am accused of, but surely if I can present a railcard that was valid and in date on the day in question it will be obvious that i did not intend to travel without paying the correct fare?

Sadly, no. The scope for widespread fraud would be tremendous if a Railcard only had to be produced on request sometime after travel.
You have not been accused of anything.
But you are under investigation and are suspected of having been unable to produce a valid ticket on demand, and also, of travelling without having a valid ticket with intent to avoid the fare due.

. . . .

It seemed very cruel to leave a young woman alone, upset and with absolutely no means of getting home. Any help and advice is greatly appreciated.

Again, it's all very regrettable. I'm sorry you feel that you were abandoned unfairly. But from the railway's point of view, you shouldn't have been on their trains in the first place without a proper ticket.
Harsh, yes, but unfortunately, that's how it is when we don't have the proper documentation for whatever it is we're doing. We get in to trouble, or as in your case, we're simply instructed to stop doing what we're not entitled to do and are offered a way of making amends afterwards.

I'd accept it eagerly if I was you.

 

[tixy]

BB21 is totally correct. Just because you own a rail card, does not mean you are entitled to the discounted ticket. You MUST have the railcard on you, in date and in tact. By not having the rail card and presenting a discounted ticket requiring a rail card, the ticket is no longer valid and you automatically commit an offence (called a strict liability offence) under railway bylaw 18.
I would say that the £50 costs is far better than criminal court action. Maybe a call to the TOC briefly outlining the issue and what they would do if you were to respond with a copy of the railcard. I wouldn't hold your breath on a complete let off though as it is your responsibility to keep your rail card on you. Hope this helps

 

[island]

The OP refers to being stopped on attempting to enter the barriers. I am unclear as to whether there has therefore been a byelaw offence committed on that occasion.

 

[Clip]

The OP refers to being stopped on attempting to enter the barriers. I am unclear as to whether there has therefore been a byelaw offence committed on that occasion.

Without checking online doesnt the bylaws read as

'Attempting to travel...'

Therefore beeping in can be construed as an attempt to travel with an invalid ticket, yes?

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . I am unclear as to whether there has therefore been a byelaw offence committed on that occasion.

Does this help:

I bought a zones 1-6 travelcard with the 16-25 railcard discount . . . . and used it around london.
. . . my railcard, which . . . i did not have on me.

Byelaw 18.1 applies.

18. Ticketless travel in non-compulsory ticket areas
(1) In any area not designated as a compulsory ticket area, no person shall enter any train for the purpose of travelling on the railway unless he has with him a valid ticket entitling him to travel.

 

[Via Bank]

It is your responsibility to make sure you have a valid ticket before you get on the train. Because you did not have your Railcard with you, your ticket was not valid, so you did commit an offence on that day, albeit by accident.

While I am sorry about your anxiety and depression, you must understand that from the ticket inspector's point of view, there are many unscrupulous people who try to cheat their way out of paying the correct fare, and then act upset and pretend it was an honest mistake when caught in the hope of being let off.

Your best bet is to accept the warning in lieu of prosecution and pay the £50, and make sure this does not happen again. The alternative is to go to court, where it unfortunately looks like an open-and-shut case that would involve a fine and costs running into several hundreds of pounds.

To make sure you don't forget your Railcard again, I suggest getting a ticket wallet and keeping it with your usual wallet or purse at all times. As soon as you buy a ticket, put it in the wallet with the Railcard—this way if you realise you've forgotten, you can go back home and fetch it, or pay the difference between the Railcard price and the full price if you're in a hurry (this is called an excess fare.)

 

[island]

Without checking online doesnt the bylaws read as

'Attempting to travel...'

Therefore beeping in can be construed as an attempt to travel with an invalid ticket, yes?

The byelaw does not. (The Regulation of Railways Act does have such wording.)

Does this help:Byelaw 18.1 applies.

My reference to "on that occasion" in my post refers to the specific time at which the OP was stopped. I cannot disagree that an offence was committed before that, but it does not seem to me that the OP has been interviewed and evidence gathered about the said prior offences.

Defending a prosecution would be difficult, despite this, and trying to muddy the waters with accusations of "cruelty" and claims of suffering "anxiety and depression" rarely works. In particular, making reference to a lack of other funds to pay for your journey runs the risk of giving the company evidence that you had intent to avoid payment - I know this may seem strange, but it is how it works legally. The suggestions to settle the matter before it becomes more serious are good ones, and once no longer at risk of prosecution, you can, if you wish, request/beg a repayment of some or all of the amount from customer services.

 

[maniacmartin]

I'm not convinced a Regulation of Railway act prosecution would succeed, given that intent to defraud the railway is undermined by the OP having previously purchased an in-date railcard, even if it was left at home.

That said, a prosecution under the Railway Byelaws looks pretty clear cut, and for that reason I would advise paying the £50 to settle out of court, and chalking it up to experience.

 

[Tetchytyke]

A Byelaws prosecution would be pretty clear cut, so paying the £50 is probably your best course of action. I would, however, enclose (along with your cheque) a letter explaining what happened, the situation you were left in as a result of SWT's actions, and a photocopy of your railcard showing that a) it was in date at the time of the incident and b) it was bought prior to the incident.

It is against good practice that you were left with no means to get home, but I cannot say I am surprised.

 

[455driver]

A Byelaws prosecution would be pretty clear cut, so paying the £50 is probably your best course of action. I would, however, enclose (along with your cheque) a letter explaining what happened, the situation you were left in as a result of SWT's actions, and a photocopy of your railcard showing that a) it was in date at the time of the incident and b) it was bought prior to the incident.

It is against good practice that you were left with no means to get home, but I cannot say I am surprised.

The OP forgot the railcard so it was their actions (and theirs alone) which left them in that situation.

Good practice does not circumvent the need for a valid ticket or are you advocating that the railways should transport everyone that would be stuck? I cant see anyone buying a ticket if that was the case!

 

[Flamingo]

I'm surprised that no member of staff informed the OP of the SILK procedure to get them home. There are procedures in place for stranded passengers. However, these do involve the passenger paying their fare eventually, not getting a free ride.

 

[DarloRich]

Hi everyone. I bought a zones 1-6 travelcard with the 16-25 railcard discount at raynes park from the machines and used it around london. when i tried to enter the barriers at waterloo to go to surbiton (my final destination) i was stopped and asked for my railcard, which i then realised i did not have on me. its usually in the front pocket of my bag so i never have to check whether i have it, which I explained apologetically. (I later found it at home, it must have fallen out somehow). The man took my details and I have received a letter 'warning in lieu of prosecution' asking me to pay £50 pounds costs and accept 'liability for your actions' and 'an undertaking not to repeat the offence' in order to avoid going to court under the regulation of the railways act 1889 5(3)a or 5(3)b.

The strange thing about the letter is that it does not name the offence I am alleged to have committed, it only offers an example of an offence, which is travelling with intent to avoid payment. So this is my problem: At this point I will find it very very difficult to pay the £50 (which I must do in the next 10 days), but also I cannot accept liability for an offence I did not commit - not only is it not stated what I am accused of, but surely if I can present a railcard that was valid and in date on the day in question it will be obvious that i did not intend to travel without paying the correct fare?

Do you think I could get the costs waived if I called up or wrote to South West Trains with proof of my railcard? The worry is that if I delay or try to fight it I will be prosecuted or made to pay even more costs. This is probably not relevant, but on the day in question they confiscated my travelcard leaving me with no money or means to get home and in tears (i am suffering from anxiety and depression). The station staff were compassionate but explained they could not override an employee of SWT by letting me on the train - fair enough. But I was facing a five hour walk at night until a passing commuter took pity on me and bought me a ticket. It seemed very cruel to leave a young woman alone, upset and with absolutely no means of getting home. Any help and advice is greatly appreciated.

On the reading of your statement it seems you are NOT being asked to accept liability, rather being offered a route to settle matters. Take that option. Quickly.

You could try and contact them and ask to set up a payment plan – keep the call only to the job in hand and don’t enter into any other discussions. Offer a sensible level of payment per month and don’t take the Michael. As much as I dislike the sanctimonious, holier than thou approach adopted by many on here it is your responsibility to ensure you carry your railcard. You need to chalk this one up to experience and not let it get any worse.

Finally, you could try and mitigate some of your loss by complaining about being left stranded. I would do that in a separate action having paid this sum to SWT

 

[revenueadvice]

The TOC that I work for has instructed us to deal with someone who has "forgotten" their rail card in the following manner.

We are not to offer a penalty fare. We are to take down the name and address and complete a Pro forma (mg11) but do not caution them. The onus will then be on the passenger to send in copy of their rail card within 2 weeks. If they can do this and it is a one off there will be no further action if they fail to supply what would have been a valid rail card then further action will be taken.

This is apparently because of passenger focus groups not being happy with the way people are treated for making "genuine" mistakes.

 

[Stigy]

Without checking online doesnt the bylaws read as

'Attempting to travel...'

Therefore beeping in can be construed as an attempt to travel with an invalid ticket, yes?

The Byelaw reads "Boards a train for the purpose of travelling..." or words to that effect. Therefore only the RRA 1889 would have the possibility of succeeding had she only just bought the ticket and was using it in the barrier to go and board her first train. In which case, I doubt there'd be enough evidence.

Having said that, she has admitted to travelling around
London on said ticket, so depending on what was said on the day, a Byelaw prosecution could almost definitely succeed.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Good practice does not circumvent the need for a valid ticket or are you advocating that the railways should transport everyone that would be stuck?

I'd expect the ticket office to explain the SILK procedure, for one thing.

There are plenty of ways of allowing a stranded passenger to get home that don't include travelling for free.