Football

[MidnightFlyer]

Well the wage bill at Darlington is in the region of £900k a year so i am guessing a lot of players are full time.
When will non league clubs realise that you cannot be full time on the sort of crowds they get. Weymouth are now talking about it. Utter madness and no wonder so many find themselves in serious trouble

Thanks for that, I thought so. Didn't Weymouth have enough trouble a few years ago? They went bust didn't they?

Anyway, more woe for all of us - ITV have had their FA Cup broadcasting contract extended by two years. What joy!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The Northern Echo has carried a story of a secret meeting by interested parties this morning trying to thrash out an eleventh-hour deal.

 

[tigerroar]

I hope Darlington do go bust. And Kettering.

There are clubs budgeting to lose £500,000 in the Conference. Budgeting for it!

Common sense needs to be restored and if clubs are to go bust to get there then so be it.

 

[Minilad]

I hope Darlington do go bust. And Kettering.

There are clubs budgeting to lose £500,000 in the Conference. Budgeting for it!

Common sense needs to be restored and if clubs are to go bust to get there then so be it.

I wouldn't say I hope clubs go bust. But I have to say I have very little sympathy for clubs who spend stupid money with no real hope of ever covering their costs. To have a wage bill of 900k a year on crowds of less than 2000 in a national league is just asking for trouble. Full time squads at this level are frankly unsustainable. Trouble is clubs just do not learn and I can only see more getting into difficulty.

 

[richw]

I wouldn't say I hope clubs go bust. But I have to say I have very little sympathy for clubs who spend stupid money with no real hope of ever covering their costs. To have a wage bill of 900k a year on crowds of less than 2000 in a national league is just asking for trouble. Full time squads at this level are frankly unsustainable. Trouble is clubs just do not learn and I can only see more getting into difficulty.

Seen one of the Darlo players tweeted that they'd cut him to £200 a week, and he was moaning he still had to pay tax on that £200.
I have little sympathy with this player, after that attitude regarding being taxed on £200, Welcome to the real world!

 

[tigerroar]

I wouldn't say I hope clubs go bust. But I have to say I have very little sympathy for clubs who spend stupid money with no real hope of ever covering their costs. To have a wage bill of 900k a year on crowds of less than 2000 in a national league is just asking for trouble. Full time squads at this level are frankly unsustainable. Trouble is clubs just do not learn and I can only see more getting into difficulty.

Our clubs have to compete with these clubs who are living beyond their means though and many fans see it as a form of cheating.

Newport County have a player who is on £1000 per week in the Conference and Forest Green are paying a couple close to that. Wages are far, far too high in that league. Heck, it's about 80% professional too. It's absurd.

I appreciate that clubs are trying to improve their matchday experience to encourage more people through the turnstiles but it's clearly not working.

Another downside too is that when both do go pop we'll get AFC Ketting and AFC Darlo starting again two or three leagues below where they'll suddenly have the backing to **** their way through those tinpot leagues taking any chance of success away from ambitious clubs that have been there for a while who aren't willing or able to spend the kind of money it will take to match them.

 

[Minilad]

Our clubs have to compete with these clubs who are living beyond their means though and many fans see it as a form of cheating.

Newport County have a player who is on £1000 per week in the Conference and Forest Green are paying a couple close to that. Wages are far, far too high in that league. Heck, it's about 80% professional too. It's absurd.

I appreciate that clubs are trying to improve their matchday experience to encourage more people through the turnstiles but it's clearly not working.

Another downside too is that when both do go pop we'll get AFC Ketting and AFC Darlo starting again two or three leagues below where they'll suddenly have the backing to **** their way through those tinpot leagues taking any chance of success away from ambitious clubs that have been there for a while who aren't willing or able to spend the kind of money it will take to match them.

Cant argue with much of that to be fair

 

[DarloRich]

I hope Darlington do go bust. And Kettering.

There are clubs budgeting to lose £500,000 in the Conference. Budgeting for it!

Common sense needs to be restored and if clubs are to go bust to get there then so be it.

Not even going to grace that with a response.

The sacked interim manager was on the radio at 2200. He will work on for nothing. There is a man with class an decency There is a hope of a deal. We are not dead just yet. We are close to death but not quite there. There is hope.

And as for tigerroar - read this: http://www.darlofc.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15733 then come back and talk to me about football.
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Our clubs have to compete with these clubs who are living beyond their means though and many fans see it as a form of cheating.

Newport County have a player who is on £1000 per week in the Conference and Forest Green are paying a couple close to that. Wages are far, far too high in that league. Heck, it's about 80% professional too. It's absurd.

I appreciate that clubs are trying to improve their matchday experience to encourage more people through the turnstiles but it's clearly not working.

Another downside too is that when both do go pop we'll get AFC Ketting and AFC Darlo starting again two or three leagues below where they'll suddenly have the backing to **** their way through those tinpot leagues taking any chance of success away from ambitious clubs that have been there for a while who aren't willing or able to spend the kind of money it will take to match them.

WRONG again - we will have to start in either Northern League 1 (step 5 i think) if we are a "phoenix club" or in the the Wearside league, step 7, if we reform.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Seen one of the Darlo players tweeted that they'd cut him to £200 a week, and he was moaning he still had to pay tax on that £200.
I have little sympathy with this player, after that attitude regarding being taxed on £200, Welcome to the real world!

No that was £200 he (and the other players) was given by the fans as thank you for everything they had done. We raised £8k in 48 hours to make sure the players got something. They hadnt been paid since October.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Not even going to grace that with a response....And as for tigerroar - read this: http://www.darlofc.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15733 then come back and talk to me about football.

You have had a fantastic response....I am so pleased that you posted this link.

 

[WelshBluebird]

So gutted for Darlington fans.
You can say what about the club and those who run it, but when a club goes bust, it is the fans who suffer the most IMO. We at Cardiff have nearly gone through it several times in our time. It is not a nice thing to happen.
Also don't forget the admin staff and such, who now have to try to find new jobs.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Whilst on the subject of the Conference Premiership, Wrexham AFC Ltd have announced that the Football Conference have confirmed the full refund back to the club (currently top of that league) of the £250,000 Bond that was placed upon the club in August 2011.

Some good news for one Conference Premiership club, who are having a very good season in all competitons.

 

[richw]

No that was £200 he (and the other players) was given by the fans as thank you for everything they had done. We raised £8k in 48 hours to make sure the players got something. They hadnt been paid since October.

Well in that case I have even less sympathy for him if the fans raised the money and he still moaned about it.

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk

 

[Chew Chew]

Well in that case I have even less sympathy for him if the fans raised the money and he still moaned about it.

I've not seen the tweet but I'd say it was more a gripe against the HMRC that he had to pay tax on what is effectively a donation as opposed to moaning that it was all he got.

Fantastic effort by the Darlo fans to raise that money BTW.

 

[Minilad]

WRONG again - we will have to start in either Northern League 1 (step 5 i think) if we are a "phoenix club" or in the the Wearside league, step 7, if we reform.
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No actually tiger roar is correct. If you reform you will drop 3 steps. You will go to the Northern Premier 1N which is Step 4. Thats if they accept you of course.
If you start a phoenix club then yes you will start at the bottom as you rightly should. As any new club would have to.

Please don't confuse people getting fed up of clubs spending money they don't have and a personal attack on Darlington. But the fact is too many clubs are doing it and its hard to have sympathy anymore. 3 admins in 9 years should tell you all you need to know about how the club has been run, and still the same mistakes are being made. 900K a year wage bill is quite frankly ridiculous at that level.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

So gutted for Darlington fans.
You can say what about the club and those who run it, but when a club goes bust, it is the fans who suffer the most IMO. We at Cardiff have nearly gone through it several times in our time. It is not a nice thing to happen.
Also don't forget the admin staff and such, who now have to try to find new jobs.

Unfortunately we hear this every time this happens. Oh its the fans that suffer. Well I happen to think the fans are partly to blame in the first place. Its the fans that demand success. Its the fans that want new signings. Its the fans that moan when players are sold. Its the fans that want cheaper admission prices. Its the fans that don't bother turning up when things are going pear shaped.
When do you ever hear of fans complain about the club risking its survival by spending money it hasn't got on ridiculous transfer fees and stupid wages. Yeah thats right. Never. They just go along for the ride happy to see the club finish a couple of places higher or get to a semi final.
So I'm sorry but I just don't buy it. Fans need to get real and realise football in this country is becoming unsustainable. Maybe a few high profile casualties will bring everyone down to earth.

But yes I do feel sorry for the back room staff at these clubs. As much as I feel sorry for the local business's that lose money they are owed when clubs go into Admin. Sometimes threatening their own survival
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
There was a Villa fan on TalkSport who suggested that football is going the way of cinema.

Back in the 50s, EVERYBODY went to the pictures at least once a week, maybe more. It was cheap, and you never had to go further than your local cinema, of which there were dozens in every town and city. Much like going to watch your local team for a few shillings every week.

Since then, virtually all the local fleapits have gone bust, and cinema has been concentrated in a much smaller number of much bigger multiplexes, which are quite pricey - and most people only go occasionally as a treat.

It seems likely that the Darlingtons of this world are the equivalent of the old local Roxys and Futurists, and will mostly cease to exist over the next 10-20 years - leaving the Premiership clubs (the Odeon multiplexes) as an occasional treat, with most people more often staying in and watching TV instead.

Rang true to me.

 

[Oswyntail]

I feel sorry for all those affected at Darlington, but this is simply a dose of reality. Businesses fold. Get over it!
Perhaps a major contributor is automatic promotion, which leads clubs to think they can flash the cash to get the "riches" of a higher division. Just as there are ground standards that have to be met (and that should be the case at ever level), so there should be business and financial criteria, published beforehand, without satisfying which a team cannot be promoted This should be more rigorous than the "fit and proper" test for board members that is a shysters charter. Better to be a healthy club in a lower division than a money pit higher up

 

[DarloRich]

I feel sorry for all those affected at Darlington, but this is simply a dose of reality. Businesses fold. Get over it!
Perhaps a major contributor is automatic promotion, which leads clubs to think they can flash the cash to get the "riches" of a higher division. Just as there are ground standards that have to be met (and that should be the case at ever level), so there should be business and financial criteria, published beforehand, without satisfying which a team cannot be promoted This should be more rigorous than the "fit and proper" test for board members that is a shysters charter. Better to be a healthy club in a lower division than a money pit higher up

They do - however a football club, for its fans, has more attachment than a business. If i dont like Tesco i can go to Sainsbury.

If you are are Darlo fan you stay a Darlo fan. You dont change, or follow someone else because times are bad or hard. You stick with them through thin and thinner. that makes the few good times so much sweeter. That is what being a proper fan (not a plastic glory boy) is all about. It is called LOYALTY, it is called SOUL, it is called BELONING, It is about where you come from, who you are, what you are and what you stand for. IT IS CALLED BEING BETTER THAN THOSE PLASTIC BLOODY PREMIER LEAGUE IDIOTS WHO THINK THEY KNOW ABOUT FOOTBALL.

I am proud of where I come from, proud of the town I used to live in and VERY proud of my football team.

SO DONT YOU DARE FU*$ING TELL ME TO GET OVER IT

Oh and when the premier league bubble goes pop, which it will, i wonder how many PL clubs are sinking in a vat of debt.

 

[142094]

I do feel sorry for Darlo, although IMO it has all gone wrong since Reynolds and the new stadium. On Look North last night they were saying that it costs £80k per month just to look after the stadium?

 

[DarloRich]

It goes back to the people before Reynolds. Pedan, Morgon and Brierley should also be in the line up. There are some intresting stroies here:

http://www.sabotagetimes.com/footba...mbers-the-day-the-slide-into-obscurity-began/

and here:

http://www.darlofc.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16375#p202408

and here:

http://daveboyle.net/analysis/darlington-by-george/

 

[Chew Chew]

What English club was it, and I'm probably going back about 15+ years here, where the owner of the club had given the club a loan with agreed payment terms. He was the only person allowed to sign the cheques at the club and deliberately kept signing them late so he could charge the club 'penalty' fees and interest?

I'm thinking Grimsby for some reason but obviously not 100% sure.

 

[DarloRich]

What English club was it, and I'm probably going back about 15+ years here, where the owner of the club had given the club a loan with agreed payment terms. He was the only person allowed to sign the cheques at the club and deliberately kept signing them late so he could charge the club 'penalty' fees and interest?

I'm thinking Grimsby for some reason but obviously not 100% sure.

WARNING WARNING LITIGATION ALERT!

I know the case you mean but cant remember the club - there are all kinds of "business men" attracted to lower league clubs

For instance i have just read that one of our former chairman ,who ran up £7.8m of debt in 2 years and put the club into administration, wants to take over again. Not much of that debt , it is alleged, was casued by the football club. You couldnt make this up

 

[tigerroar]

Not even going to grace that with a response.

The sacked interim manager was on the radio at 2200. He will work on for nothing. There is a man with class an decency There is a hope of a deal. We are not dead just yet. We are close to death but not quite there. There is hope.

And as for tigerroar - read this: http://www.darlofc.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15733 then come back and talk to me about football.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---



WRONG again - we will have to start in either Northern League 1 (step 5 i think) if we are a "phoenix club" or in the the Wearside league, step 7, if we reform.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


No that was £200 he (and the other players) was given by the fans as thank you for everything they had done. We raised £8k in 48 hours to make sure the players got something. They hadnt been paid since October.

I read that romantic tosh the other day, I bet Barrow were rubbing their hands at the prospect of a thousand Darlo fans coming through their turnstiles.

If Darlington were in such turmoil then they should've done what Redditch did last year (before going into admin). They released all of their players and had players play for nothing. They got relegated but they still have a club.

Have they changed the rules regarding reformed clubs then? I hope they have after the mockery the likes of Farnborough, Nuneaton and Tleford have made of going bust.

 

[SS4]

The 3rd Round Replay between Wrexham and Brighton has been postponed for 24 hours due to a frozen pitch, it is now scheduled to kick off at 1915 tomorrow (Weds 18/1/12) subject to a thaw.

I hope that ITV also have a thaw and decide to show this game instead of the immensely dull Wolves replay.

 

[Chew Chew]

WARNING WARNING LITIGATION ALERT!

I know the case you mean but cant remember the club - there are all kinds of "business men" attracted to lower league clubs

For instance i have just read that one of our former chairman ,who ran up £7.8m of debt in 2 years and put the club into administration, wants to take over again. Not much of that debt , it is alleged, was casued by the football club. You couldnt make this up

I'm sure it was standing Room Only I saw it on and from a quick Google that was actually 21 years ago!

Up in Scotland there have been a few 'dodgy' people involved with Livingston and Dundee over the last 10 or so years.

There was a guy called Giovanni Di Stefano involved at Dundee for a while. He was mates with Arkan and represented Saddam Hussein.

 

[DarloRich]

They have changed the rules. Northern League 1 for a "phoenix club" Wearside League for a new club. Steps 5 & 7 respectively. I got the steps muddled up - IF we can get a ground sorted out.

Redditch are at a much lower level (part time?) and are governed by slightly different set of rules. Our players are full time and although they were made redundant yesterday this seems to be against the rules. All it does is move the problem elsewhere and create more creditors.

And after all Barrow went through themselves recently I hope the money from our fans came in useful. It might keep them going for a bit.

 

[tigerroar]

Redditch were in the Blue Square North last season, one division below Darlington when they made that drastic move.

Some fans want their cake and they want to eat it.

I think this - http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=946330&postcount=2384 - is a brutally honest and brilliant post.

 

[SS4]

FT - Villa Res 7-1 Wolves Res (Winnall; Weimann 3, Bannan 2, Delfouneso, Gardner).

Let's try for the same result with the first team


RETROSPECTIVE EDIT: This is my 3,000th post.

 

[Royston Vasey]

They do - however a football club, for its fans, has more attachment than a business. If i dont like Tesco i can go to Sainsbury.

If you are are Darlo fan you stay a Darlo fan. You dont change, or follow someone else because times are bad or hard. You stick with them through thin and thinner. that makes the few good times so much sweeter. That is what being a proper fan (not a plastic glory boy) is all about. It is called LOYALTY, it is called SOUL, it is called BELONING, It is about where you come from, who you are, what you are and what you stand for. IT IS CALLED BEING BETTER THAN THOSE PLASTIC BLOODY PREMIER LEAGUE IDIOTS WHO THINK THEY KNOW ABOUT FOOTBALL.

I am proud of where I come from, proud of the town I used to live in and VERY proud of my football team.

SO DONT YOU DARE FU*$ING TELL ME TO GET OVER IT

Oh and when the premier league bubble goes pop, which it will, i wonder how many PL clubs are sinking in a vat of debt.

Absolutely bang on, and like my fellow Sunderland fans, my heart goes out to you. We are lucky enough to be in the Premier League now with a decent ownership and stewardship, but we know what its like to be in Division 3, scraping by and but for the grace of God, that would be us. If Darlington go under its a black day for North East football. I hope that somehow the big three clubs may be able to help.

Reynolds - once a crook, always a crook.

Best of luck

 

[DarloRich]

@ tigerroar but at no point did we as fans ask for, or get a say in, any of the following:

1) A 25,000 mega dome which we never had a chance of filling
2) We never asked for success. Most Darlo fans are happy to simply bumble along like we have done for most of our existence. Perhaps a promotion would be nice
3) new signings are nice but we haven’t paid a transfer fee in years. We sign players on a one year contract and sign new players on a free
4) We don’t complain when someone is sold - why? Because we recognise that the money the sale brings in keeps us going for another period of time. Plus any add on fees are very helpful. The last player to leave was David Stockdale. He went to Fulham with the blessing of every Darlo fan. I hope his career goes upwards.
5) Darlo fans tend to turn up in the same numbers we always do,. between 1700 and 2000, more come when things are good. (obviously)
6) Entry prices are high (£18) of course lower would be nice, but people are realistic.
7) Wages for us have been higher than some clubs but no where near the level suggested in the media. Fans at our level don’t expect people on £1100 a week.
8) We have played in 2 FA trophy semi finals and a JPT semi final. Hardly ground breaking
9) We didn’t ask for or have say in the club being split into 3 companies. 1 running the team, one running the ground and a holding company. I wonder how the team company ran up £7.8m in 2 years?
10) We didn’t ask the former chairman to default on his loan meaning the stadium was repossessed.


The post you refer to is a typical response to the premier league dominated media and the fans driven by that media. That is all you hear from that type of fans. Look lower down the leagues and you see a lot more realism. We don’t have a Sky tv bonus to waste every year.

What we as fans do expect is that those in charge of the club to be decent, honest, trustworthy chaps with some business nous, some kind of sustainable business plan coupled with prudent financial management. Most fans of lower league clubs are realistic and know the over riding priority is survival. It appears many PL fans are not.
PL fans do not.

 

[Chew Chew]

Hearts players not paid on time yet again.

SPL board to meet tonight to discuss the punishment after the Hearts board had promised that the wages would be paid on time this month.

 

[DarloRich]

Again! it is almost every month!

This link has the change to the rules on phoneix clubs contained within it:

http://www.footballeconomy.com/content/phoenix-clubs-face-tougher-climate