Football

[DarloRich]

England were poor last night, lacked fizz, passing wasn't crisp, pressing wasn't intense enough, players didn't look on it and all seemed very flat. Very poor. Hopefully just the absolutely standard England tournament wobble. We have one every time. However we didn't lose.

Have honestly never got why people love Southgate so much.

He is a decent guy, has good values, doesn't court our rotten media and is a decent enough manager who has done as well as any other England manager in my lifetime - the problem is he isn't loved by the premier league plastics, sky dribblers, talk sport brain donors and fifa boys. They would much prefer a whopper like Howe or Potter or suggest something complete impossible like Pep or Klopp!

Who should be there? I try to be balanced. Southgate isn't perfect, obviously, but is there anyone better? We have to be honest and say we are a quarter final team with a generational pass to a semi. We aren't quite good enough and never have been. We ARE better now than we have ever been but we are still not there.

There is so much wibble about Bowen, Gordon, Gallagher etc. Simple truth is they are not top class and despite the media love wont change a game.

In particular, how is Cole Palmer not getting a game, after the season he had?

Ok - how do you accommodate him, Foden, Bellingham, Saka and Rice in the same team?

Unfortunately too many players are being asked to play in positions and / or in a way that they are not used to, thanks to Southgate's over-defensive tactics. We know this squad has goals in it, lots and lots of goals, but we ain't going to get them sitting so deep and inviting pressure.

We also know the squad lacks defensive quality and depth. It isn't a FIFA game. We have no left back, an untested young centre half, Stones ( who while a great user of the ball never strikes me as a great defender ) and Walker. We miss Maguire in there for all he is a whipping boy for the media he is a good stopper. Him and Stones are a good pair.

I just burst out laughing when I heard him say that.

He wants Rice and someone like Phillips or Henderson to screen the back 4. Phillips brings a great deal of terrier like energy, breaks up opposition play, keeps it simple and keeps the ball moving to better players. He will also keep to his shape and duties and not go wandering off as he fancies. Can be a walking booking mind. Sad fact is he, like several others, wasn't good enough this season to merit selection.

I see why people are amused by this statement but it does have some sense. I wouldn't have said it mind!

 

[Cowley]

Have honestly never got why people love Southgate so much. A manager whose main weakness is making big tactical calls at crucial moments; completely unsuited to winning tournaments.

People just like that he's a Nice Bloke.

I think he steadied things at the beginning and we did fairly well at the first two tournaments (although there was a healthy dose of luck involved with those). Tactically he’s inept though and despite appearing to be quite an intelligent man he just doesn’t seem to be able to adjust his thinking.

 

[DarloRich]

I think he steadied things at the beginning and we did fairly well at the first two tournaments (although there was a healthy dose of luck involved with those). Tactically he’s inept though and despite appearing to be quite an intelligent man he just doesn’t seem to be able to adjust his thinking.

Is that really accurate? What should he be doing tactically that he isn't? I agree he is very risk averse and doesn't change things or gamble when others might but his record is decent enough. Personally having watched every England tournament game since 1986 i think to get to a final and a semi is pretty good going!

It is never enough though!

 

[Haywain]

I try to be balanced.

And you do it very well (in this post, anyway!).

 

[DarloRich]

And you do it very well (in this post, anyway!).

thank you - and in the interests of fairness i must say i was wrong about Luton. They put up a much better show than I expected.

 

[Haywain]

Robert Page has been sacked as manager of the Wales national team

 

[dangie]

Time and time again we accomodate the best eleven by asking them to play in positions they don't play for their clubs while players who are a better fit for the system are left on the bench or, worse still, left out of the squad completely.

England haven’t had a player who could play well in multiple positions since Duncan Edwards.

 

[Bantamzen]

England go a goal up then Harry Kane spends as much time in his own Penalty Area as he does in the opposition’s half.

I've no issue with Kane dropping in deep to start a move, the problem is that so often there is nobody else close enough to move in front to pressure the opposition defence and offer an outlet, because they are on top of our own defence. Its so frustrating because this is no a million miles off the best squad we could have, and should be good enough to get us all the way there.

Edit: Just seen a perfect comment on the BBC website.

‘Southgate is so negative he’s the type of guy who puts his IPhone on save battery mode when it’s 99% charged’

That's a good one.

 

[Haywain]

i must say i was wrong about Luton. They put up a much better show than I expected.

Thanks, we did better than most expected but the injuries we suffered in the second half of the season did us no favours. Without the injuries I think we'd have pushed Forest for the last relegation place, but it wasn't to be and being relegated was what we ultimately thought would happen. Incredibly, we haven't (yet) lost any players* and Super Robbie Edwards has signed a new 4-year contract.

*It's a matter of when, not if, Ross Barkley goes.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Edit: Just seen a perfect comment on the BBC website.

‘Southgate is so negative he’s the type of guy who puts his IPhone on save battery mode when it’s 99% charged’

One I saw was "Southgate is the type of bloke who takes the minus offer on The Chase

He wants Rice and someone like Phillips or Henderson to screen the back 4

But why? One good quality holding midfielder (which Rice absolutely is) should be enough. Manchester City play that way with Rodri and they seem to do OK

 

[DarloRich]

But why? One good quality holding midfielder (which Rice absolutely is) should be enough. Manchester City play that way with Rodri and they seem to do OK

but England don't have the same team around him. City are able to use Stones as a sort of hybrid defender/holding player because they aren't under as much pressure defensively. England cant do that.

 

[Howardh]

I know it's lower league levels, but Bury and Swindon hero (and I use the term accurately!) Andy Rowlands has passed away at 69; very sad news because watching Bury he was one of my first heroes, kinda missed Derek Spence but Andy and Craig "Charlie" Madden were my first "legends". Andy moved to Swindon where he became a fans' favourite too there. RIP.

 

[Falcon1200]

Ok - how do you accommodate him [Palmer], Foden, Bellingham, Saka and Rice in the same team?

Bring him on as an impact substitute.

 

[DarloRich]

Bring him on as an impact substitute.

Agree.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Bring him on as an impact substitute.

Watkins came on late in the game in the role.

 

[Iskra]

Have honestly never got why people love Southgate so much. A manager whose main weakness is making big tactical calls at crucial moments; completely unsuited to winning tournaments.

People just like that he's a Nice Bloke.

That’s his problem, he’s so nice that he lacks a winner’s drive and instinct, and that’s why we’ll never win anything with him at the helm. No cut and thrust about him.

The Dutch have just had a goal ruled out by VAR, which is a complex and controversial one, and I sympathise with the Dutch on this one, it was a very long check so any error can’t have been that clear and obvious! The goal was against the run of play.

 

[Haywain]

The Dutch have just had a goal ruled out by VAR, which is a complex and controversial one, and I sympathise with the Dutch on this one, it was a very long check so any error can’t have been that clear and obvious! The goal was against the run of play.

The offside was given by the on field ref, so VAR was looking for a reason to allow the goal. It looked harsh but the problem with VAR is the failure to explain that.

 

[Harvester]

The match has ended 0-0, and as a result Poland are eliminated from the competition!

 

[Iskra]

The offside was given by the on field ref, so VAR was looking for a reason to allow the goal. It looked harsh but the problem with VAR is the failure to explain that.

To be fair, it was the linesman that flagged, and the decision makes a lot more sense from his angle, so hard to say it’s an obvious error from that perspective.

 

[Haywain]

To be fair, it was the linesman that flagged, and the decision makes a lot more sense from his angle, so hard to say it’s an obvious error from that perspective.

Yep. However, from a spectator perspective (TV or in stadium) it's poorly explained and took far too long.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

No surprise that the two most controversial (and time-consuming) VAR calls have involved the English officials...

 

[SuspectUsual]

No surprise that the two most controversial (and time-consuming) VAR calls have involved the English officials...

That’s just luck surely?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

That’s just luck surely?

Possibly... or a sign that the English officials still aren't comfortable with VAR, in comparison to their European counterparts.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Possibly... or a sign that the English officials still aren't comfortable with VAR, in comparison to their European counterparts.

The one last night was difficult because it was one of the relatively unusual offside decisions that involves a subjective element - ie was the bloke interfering with play. It was always going to take longer and be more controversial than a straightforward semi-automated offside. I don't think the nationality of the VAR had any bearing on the time taken to make the decision or the reception the it got. It also didn't help that it was a decision that went against a "big" nation - again just luck

 

[dangie]

…. ie was the bloke interfering with play.…

As Brian Clough (or was it Bill Shankley?) used to say ‘If he wasn’t interfering with play, he shouldn’t be on the bl**dy field..’

 

[Mcr Warrior]

As Brian Clough (or was it Bill Shankley?) used to say ‘If he wasn’t interfering with play, he shouldn’t be on the bl**dy field..’

Thought it was Bill Nicholson (Tottenham Hotspur manager).

 

[dangie]

Thought it was Bill Nicholson (Tottenham Hotspur manager).

As Brian Clough (or was it Bill Shankley or Bill Nicholson?’) used to say ‘If he wasn’t interfering with play, he shouldn’t be on the bl**dy field..’

 

[DarloRich]

That’s his problem, he’s so nice that he lacks a winner’s drive and instinct, and that’s why we’ll never win anything with him at the helm. No cut and thrust about him

Did Fabio Cappello or Sven "lack a winners drive and instinct"?

Did Terry Venables or Bobby Robson have "no cut and thrust"?

Southgate has achieved as much as them (and more than most) but putting that aside who should be England manager?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Did Fabio Cappello or Sven "lack a winners drive and instinct"?

Did Terry Venables or Bobby Robson have "no cut and thrust"?

Southgate has achieved as much as them (and more than most) but putting that aside who should be England manager?

The role of manager of the England team is a poisoned chalice and in the knowledge how the football media react to matters, any prospective candidate worth his salt would steer clear of taking such a position in the knowledge that the football media love to ruin reputations.

 

[Haywain]

the knowledge that the football media love to ruin reputations.

Corrected that for you. However, I don't think Robson or Venables had their reputations ruined as a result of managing the England team.