Football

[75A]

All valid points, but certainly at the very top level, Referees are now employed full time and don't have to juggle between employment & hobby as in previous times, so can devote more time to making improvements.
I thoroughly enjoyed my time refereeing in Sussex & Surrey, but would I encourage somebody to take it up as a hobby, probably not.

 

[Haywain]

Referees are now employed full time and don't have to juggle between employment & hobby as in previous times, so can devote more time to making improvements.

That may be the case, but if you want top quality people there we need many more even at the lowest level. Better to have the top 1% than the top 5%.

 

[75A]

That may be the case, but if you want top quality people there we need many more even at the lowest level. Better to have the top 1% than the top 5%.

Fair point

 

[Haywain]

I think there is also a point that at all levels below the Premier League, the standard starts to suffer and is affected more as you get lower due to the number of referees required for matches at the higher levels. In the Premier League you have not only the 3 match officials but a fourth official and then those dealing with VAR. The same will apply in the Championship from this season, and every game at lower levels (down to where, I'm not sure) requires a fourth official. That's quite a lot of good referees not being used every week.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I think there is also a point that at all levels below the Premier League, the standard starts to suffer and is affected more as you get lower due to the number of referees required for matches at the higher levels. In the Premier League you have not only the 3 match officials but a fourth official and then those dealing with VAR. The same will apply in the Championship from this season, and every game at lower levels (down to where, I'm not sure) requires a fourth official. That's quite a lot of good referees not being used every week.

When the decision was finally decided upon, those in charge of such matters must have been aware that this would affect the available numbers of referees of the higher calibre.

 

[SuspectUsual]

I think there is also a point that at all levels below the Premier League, the standard starts to suffer and is affected more as you get lower due to the number of referees required for matches at the higher levels. In the Premier League you have not only the 3 match officials but a fourth official and then those dealing with VAR. The same will apply in the Championship from this season, and every game at lower levels (down to where, I'm not sure) requires a fourth official. That's quite a lot of good referees not being used every week.

One of the benefits of the TV deals is that with games being spread over three or four days and with different kick off times, it means refs can do one game in a weekend and then fourth official or VAR for another. This obviously can't happen on the last day of the season when all ten games kick off simultaneously, but there aren't EFL games on that day so you see refs being stepped up

 

[DarloRich]

Premier league fans think the referees are poor at thier level. They honestly don't know they are born. They are awful at NLN level. We have some absolute shockers.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Premier league fans think the referees are poor at thier level. They honestly don't know they are born. They are awful at NLN level. We have some absolute shockers.

Ain't that the truth.

And as you'll doubtless remember, they're even worse in the glue leagues (Unibond / Evostik / whatever they are this year)

 

[DarloRich]

And as you'll doubtless remember, they're even worse in the glue leagues (Unibond / Evostik / whatever they are this year)

oh yes!

 

[Haywain]

They are awful at NLN level. We have some absolute shockers.

That goes for the players as well!

 

[DarloRich]

That goes for the players as well!

of course - however they mostly seem able to kick a ball. Some of the referees at that level don't seem to have a basic grasp of the laws!

 

[SuspectUsual]

of course - however they mostly seem able to kick a ball. Some of the referees at that level don't seem to have a basic grasp of the laws!

Yeah, some of them are absolutely shocking. James Hermuzi (sp?) is a name I'll never forget - presided over a near riot at Ossett in the worst performance I've ever seen

As for the players......

About 10 years ago Neil Aspin, who was manager at Halifax at the time, did a Q&A for some charity or other. He was asked about Jamie Vardy, and how Town had managed to sign him, and he said that 99.9% of the time players are at the level they're at for a reason - too slow, one-footed, can't head the ball etc, but for a tiny proportion of them the reason isn't football related, and that was the case with Vardy - his lifestyle and his mates were holding him back. He fixed that and suddenly blossomed.

Anyhow, at the time Town had a striker called James Dean, now sadly no longer with us. He was a proper old-fashioned battering ram of a striker and he scored 40+ goals in the Unibond North the season we won it. Aspin was asked why Deano got caught offside so often, and before he could stop himself blurted out "cos he's f*cking thick". That was why he was a level 8 player.

As an aside, this reminds me of the brilliant 2009/10 season. Unibond One North had one automatic promotion place, and Halifax and Lancaster City were neck and neck towards then end of the season. The week before we played them in what was billed as a title decider, both had midweek games. They kicked off at 7:30 and won; we kicked off away at Garforth at 7:45 and it all went wrong, and we were 3-1 down after minutes. Losing was unthinkable. Then 3 goals in 4 minutes to win the game, the winner being a brilliant lob from the edge of the box. One of those "you had to be there" matches. We then battered Lancaster 4-0 on the Saturday and strolled to the title. Lancaster finished 21 points of third placed Colwyn Bay, but lost to them in the playoffs

This is the only video of it, and the quality is, well, level 8 as well. (Although, contrary to the general standard of reffing at that level, the ref does very well to overrule his linesman's offside flag for the second Halifax goal)

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Premier league fans think the referees are poor at thier level. They honestly don't know they are born. They are awful at NLN level. We have some absolute shockers.

How many of those fans actually are fully conversant with the knowledge that referees have to have. It made me laugh in the mid-1960s watching Oldham Athletic in Division Four at Boundary Park to hear some of the refereeing views of the spectators (home and away versions) and I wondered where their implied understanding (or lack of it) ever came from.

 

[SuspectUsual]

How many of those fans actually are fully conversant with the knowledge that referees have to have. It made me laugh in the mid-1960s watching Oldham Athletic in Division Four at Boundary Park to hear some of the refereeing views of the spectators (home and away versions) and I wondered where their implied understanding (or lack of it) ever came from.

To be honest, the biggest single issue is lack of fitness, but there are also a lot of very strange decisions

 

[JamesT]

Another shock at the Women's World Cup as the Germans go out in the group stage after only drawing with South Korea 1-1.

 

[DarloRich]

To be honest, the biggest single issue is lack of fitness, but there are also a lot of very strange decisions

I think you are right: the fitness problem leads to the decision problem because the officials are so far behind play they don't have a clue what is going on. Having a liner in the same county as the ball would be a great start!

@Xenophon PCDGS - see above. Fitness/lack thereof is the root cause imo.

 

[AlterEgo]

Referee fitness absolutely is an issue. Not just with being behind play, but the more dog tired you are, the less thinking space you have in your brain and everything you do and think about becomes degraded in some way. It's not that much different to actually playing in that respect.

 

[SuspectUsual]

I think you are right: the fitness problem leads to the decision problem because the officials are so far behind play they don't have a clue what is going on. Having a liner in the same county as the ball would be a great start!

I've got some sympathy with linesmen, as they're meant to be positioned level with the penultimate player on the defending team, so a quick break that catches out the defence will likely catch them out too. In an extreme example, think back to the Pedro Mendes non-goal for Portsmouth against Manchester United - the lino got absolutely hammered for not giving the goal, but he could never have been in a position to give it. Now, at the elite level with have goalline technology to help

With unfit refs, the other knock-on impact of lack of fitness is that when they're behind play they tend to run up and down the pitch, to shorten the distance to catch back up, rather than the right back to left wing line they're coached to run (because the linos generally run the left back line, and this means the ball is between ref and lino more of the time giving two angles on any incident) and thus they are both behind play and with a poorer angle

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I think you are right: the fitness problem leads to the decision problem because the officials are so far behind play they don't have a clue what is going on.

Are there any similar fitness comments made about those who officiate in both Rugby codes?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Aug 2023 ==

With unfit refs, the other knock-on impact of lack of fitness is that when they're behind play they tend to run up and down the pitch, to shorten the distance to catch back up, rather than the right back to left wing line they're coached to run (because the linos generally run the left back line, and this means the ball is between ref and lino more of the time giving two angles on any incident) and thus they are both behind play and with a poorer angle

Is it not the case why there are also two linesmen to assist the match referee? Surely there are laid-down fitness level standards for match referees.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Is it not the case why there are also two linesmen to assist the match referee?

Yes, but the linesmen never cross the halfway line

Surely there are laid-down fitness level standards for match referees.

There are, but to the best of my knowledge they're "run x metres in y seconds" not "run x metres in y seconds having already reffed 89 minutes". And moreover, games tend to get more stretched in the latter stages, as players tire and one team might be chasing a goal, which makes it harder still for the portly referees

 

[156421]

the Pedro Mendes non-goal for Portsmouth against Manchester United

I thought it was Tottenham not Portsmouth

 

[SuspectUsual]

I thought it was Tottenham not Portsmouth

Yes, you're right, I got mixed up - he was playing for Portsmouth when he got his face smashed by Ben Thatcher

 

[SJL2020]

Yes, you're right, I got mixed up - he was playing for Portsmouth when he got his face smashed by Ben Thatcher

Yes, and the incompetent ref only gave Thatcher a yellow. Afterwards upgraded to an 8 match ban I think it was.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Yes, and the incompetent ref only gave Thatcher a yellow. Afterwards upgraded to an 8 match ban I think it was.

The moral of that story is that it is better for such incompetents to be referees and not members of the judiciary.

 

[Cletus]

Premier league fans think the referees are poor at thier level. They honestly don't know they are born. They are awful at NLN level. We have some absolute shockers.

And all of those bad referees seem to end up being promoted to the NLP and then the FL.

 

[dangie]

First game of the season and Stoke won 4-1. Thought we were going to go top of the league but Watford spoilt it by winning 4-0

Still never mind, probably the highest we’ll be all season……

 

[156421]

Nice to see Wrexham spectacularly fall at the first hurdle

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The individual in question at Southend United, a certain Ron Martin, is certainly not behaving in the manner of a "moneybags" - the current protests result from the club being heavily in debt, with a winding up order in the courts from HMRC and players and staff going unpaid for months on end.

I wonder if the fans of Southend United were pleased with their match result yesterday, being a home match to start off the new season, as they beat Oldham Athletic 4-0, with the last three goals being scored late on in the match.

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It seems strange to see a twice-winner of the FA Cup playing yesterday in the FA Cup Extra Preliminary Round, but well done to Bury for progressing....

Uttoxeter Town 1 ... Bury 4

 

[Haywain]

I wonder if the fans of Southend United were pleased with their match result yesterday, being a home match to start off the new season, as they beat Oldham Athletic 4-0, with the last three goals being scored late on in the match.

I imagine some will have been very pleased, while others will be less happy because they appreciate that it helps to divert attention from the awful management of Ron Martin.

 

[Butts]

First game of the season and Stoke won 4-1. Thought we were going to go top of the league but Watford spoilt it by winning 4-0

Still never mind, probably the highest we’ll be all season……

Watch out for Plymouth Argyle