Football

[Iskra]

A last throw of the dice. Personally, I think it’s too late and we are in an unrecoverable position.

The strategy at the club has been horrendous for the last 15 months and it’s almost comedic how we’ve thrown success away, so spectacularly, so quickly and in such a self-inflicted manner. Karma for stabbing a club legend and best manager in decades in the back, for Radz. A costly mistake for him. A change of ownership, rather than management is what’s really needed.

I am however intrigued to see our remaining home games now.

 

[SuspectUsual]

If it is they cant get big fat Sam in - looks like Leeds have their first. An ultimate destroy and exit operation. Money, money, money.

The BMLC will be loving every second of it. No time for a rot and trot

 

[DarloRich]

The BMLC will be loving every second of it. No time for a rot and trot

He will have to bring Steve McLaren in

 

[REVUpminster]

Sam Allardyce is the greatest football philosopher and thinker and his one mantra that has served him well at all his clubs is; wait for it---"At corners and free kicks all teams are equal no matter how good they are".

I can remember West Ham getting relegated from the premier league with 42pts, after 38 games, chasing Sam Allardyce's Bolton. Still a record unlikely to be beaten.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Gun for hire. Leeds must be really desperate!

 

[dangie]

Lionel Messi will leave Paris St-Germain this summer at the end of his current contract.

I've had it from good sources in the pub tonight that he will be signing for Stoke City next season.

 

[150249]

Lionel Messi will leave Paris St-Germain this summer at the end of his current contract.

I've had it from good sources in the pub tonight that he will be signing for Stoke City next season.

Get him in the red and white of Exeter City!

 

[AlterEgo]

Meanwhile in League One, the dogs dinner at the bottom of the table intensifies as three clubs are on equal points going into the final day of the season, with any two of MK Dons, Morecambe, and Cambridge United all in the mix.

League One has been very low quality this season with the bottom 7 or 8 clubs all being terrible.

 

[dangie]

…League One has been very low quality this season with the bottom 7 or 8 clubs all being terrible.

Yes but it does make for a more interesting season. I’d rather watch two evenly matched terrible teams slogging out a 0-0 draw than watch a 7-0 thrashing.

 

[DarloRich]

MK Dongs were 4-1 up with 15/16 minutes to play on Saturday and drew 4-4. Only themselves to blame.

Like most lower league football fans I don't like MK Dongs.

 

[AlterEgo]

Yes but it does make for a more interesting season. I’d rather watch two evenly matched terrible teams slogging out a 0-0 draw than watch a 7-0 thrashing.

Trust me it's bad down the bottom. As @DarloRich says MK (my team) threw away a three goal lead in an act of predictable seppuku last weekend thanks to unacceptable fitness levels. Cambridge then lost to nothing-to-play-for Burton in the tramp fight last night. It's a terrible league this season with relegation being decided by who is the most comically awful, and no team down there can feel hard done by. I can't remember a lower quality division overall.

On the MK Dons forum at the start of the season most fans predicted promotion or playoffs, which was utterly delusional given the turnover in squad. Even I thought we'd finish about 16-17th but that's lower league football for you.

 

[DarloRich]

On the MK Dons forum at the start of the season most fans predicted promotion or playoffs, which was utterly delusional given the turnover in squad. Even I thought we'd finish about 16-17th but that's lower league football for you.

Looking from the outside I was REALLY surprised about how positive Dongs fans were about this season. There are some big and well resourced teams in that league this season and MK just don't seem to be at that level.

Since Karl Robinson left they seem to have had a string of at best average managers and a revolving door of underskilled players. Is there no money left?

I also heard rumours of a take over - is that just idle fantasy?

 

[AlterEgo]

Looking from the outside I was REALLY surprised about how positive Dongs fans were about this season. There are some big and well resourced teams in that league this season and MK just don't seem to be at that level.

MK's natural level for its size is about 15th in L1. Anything above that and we are punching above our weight. L2 is not good at all but not the catastrophe some people in the club make it out to be. The squad after the sale of Twine and Kasumu was nowhere near a playoff team and our best player is our goalkeeper, in on loan.

Since Karl Robinson left they seem to have had a string of at best average managers and a revolving door of underskilled players. Is there no money left?

MK made a £3m+ profit this year and are the most sustainable team in the division. The problem isn't no money, it's trying to protect the club as an asset but making the fan experience suffer, as well as poor recruitment.

I also heard rumours of a take over - is that just idle fantasy?

Yes and no. Red Bull were interested but that was quickly kiboshed due to rules about them owning multiple sports teams in European competition or something. And that's fair enough. Winkelman wants out, I think, but at the correct price of course.

The problems are similar to any other middle of the road club in L1, but the fans often don't realise they're lucky not to have turned into Bury (dead), Darlo (dead + resurrected) or done a Notts Country (hope to see them back in L2 next season).

 

[DarloRich]

Darlo (dead + resurrected)

Resurrected by fans. We didn't die.

interesting that the bloke who came very close to killing us is in charge of Hartlpooh and making many of the same noises there. They should be very worried. We did warn them.

(BTW I don't care what some idiot wearing a blazer with a crest thinks or what his stupid rules say. Sod them. I own a part of my club. One club. one team, one history)

Winkelman wants out, I think, but at the correct price of course.

I thought that was the case but I am not really close enough to it ( even if I am physically close to them LOL) to know the ins and outs - only what see in the free paper and what I hear out and about.

MK made a £3m+ profit this year and are the most sustainable team in the division. The problem isn't no money, it's trying to protect the club as an asset but making the fan experience suffer, as well as poor recruitment.

there is the training ground saga as well. From the outside the club seem to be sensibly run ( of course you never know the score with directors loans and the like) and that is really good but they do seem to have got recruitment on AND off the field very wrong.

I wonder if a name change might help bring in a new owner without the franchise baggage to put them off?

 

[AlterEgo]

Resurrected by fans. We didn't die.

interesting that the bloke who came very close to killing us is in charge of Hartlpooh and making many of the same noises there. They should be very worried. We did warn them.

Hartlepool are in serious trouble. The club's up for sale again and I don't think it's an attractive investment for a sensible buyer.

there is the training ground saga as well. From the outside the club seem to be sensibly run ( of course you never know the score with directors loans and the like) and that is really good but they do seem to have got recruitment on AND off the field very wrong.

The training ground is going ahead now, very slowly. It's crucially important because the team trains at crappy Woughton right now, and the academy hasn't produced much of note since Dele Alli.

I would much rather have our problems than the problems plaguing many other clubs in the division though.

I wonder if a name change might help bring in a new owner without the franchise baggage to put them off?

This is a toxic debate within the fanbase. Personally I have no attachment to the "Dons" name or the back story and consider MK a wholly new team born in 2004. I am happy for AFC - I don't *like* them, but I respect what they have done and the shattering of the old Wimbledon into two new Football League clubs is not a bad outcome.

"MK Red Bull" would be alright in the circumstances; the club already changed its identity once, I don't see why it can't again. A minority are diehards though who don't like the idea, but that seems at best, not very self-aware in my view.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I wonder if a name change might help bring in a new owner without the franchise baggage to put them off?

It might do- the "Dons" bit is a constant reminder of their founding.

Of course AFC Wimbledon get all the love from the football hipsters as a result, but the real victims of the franchise debacle were Kingstonian... who went from being on the verge of promotion to the EFL, to almost folding and falling down the leagues.

 

[DarloRich]

Hartlepool are in serious trouble. The club's up for sale again and I don't think it's an attractive investment for a sensible buyer.

Agreed - but it is more the man doing the selling than the sale that worries me. I dislike the hangers with a passion but don't want them facing what we have had to face.

This is a toxic debate within the fanbase. Personally I have no attachment to the "Dons" name or the back story and consider MK a wholly new team born in 2004. I am happy for AFC - I don't *like* them, but I respect what they have done and the shattering of the old Wimbledon into two new Football League clubs is not a bad outcome.

"MK Red Bull" would be alright in the circumstances; the club already changed its identity once, I don't see why it can't again. A minority are diehards though who don't like the idea, but that seems at best, not very self-aware in my view.

Really - that is interesting.

I don't know why the club doesn't just go with MK City (or such like) and a rebrand to cash in on the new city status. ( although I appreciate there are a couple of former clubs and a junior club with the same name)

 

[REVUpminster]

Perhaps Jeff Stelling will buy Hartlepool now he has time on his hands?

 

[150249]

Perhaps Jeff Stelling will buy Hartlepool now he has time on his hands?

I love Jeff. Sad for him about Hartlepool

 

[REVUpminster]

If Torquay hadn't thrown away all the good work their goalkeeper (scoring an equaliser, saving first two penalties in a shootout) did, Hartlepool would have still been in the National league and Torquay would not be getting relegated to the National south.

 

[Jimini]

Enjoy the celebrations, @61653 HTAFC !

 

[Cloud Strife]

North of the border, it seems that the creation of the Scottish football pyramid has resulted in some of the best football in years below the Premiership.

In the Championship, the league is going down to a final day fight between Queens Park and Dundee, with Dundee needing to get a draw or a win away to get promoted. The playoffs are similarly wide open in the Championship, with only Queen's Park or Dundee guaranteed to qualify. Even with relegation, nothing will be decided until the final whistle.

League One has seen Kelty Hearts survive for another year, while League Two has Bonnyrigg Rose probably surviving.

The only *but* is that I'd like to see a slight revamp to the league format. My ideal league format would be something like this:

Scottish Premiership: remains as is, the 12 team format with the split is widely accepted.
Scottish Championship: Expanded to 18 teams, home/away. Promotion remains as-is, but two teams would go down automatically. Teams finishing 14-16 would enter a relegation playoff along with the 3rd place team in League One. The playoffs would work differently: six games in a mini-league format, winner takes all.
Scottish League One: Remains at 10 teams. Top two would get promoted, third would enter the playoffs. Two teams would get relegated. 7th and 8th would enter the relegation play-offs.
Scottish League Two North and South: 10 teams, top team gets promoted, bottom team gets relegated. The teams that finish 2nd would enter the playoffs. The teams that finish 8th/9th would play off against the teams finishing 2nd/3rd in the Highland/Lowland leagues.

All the playoffs would be organised as a mini-league, with the caveat that the Scottish League Two relegation playoffs would promote one North and one South team, with the highest placed team being promoted.

The reason for a 18 team Championship is that it should be possible to demand that all 18 teams are full time teams. That gives a core of 30 professional teams, while League One would be so unpredictable that it would make no sense for semi-pro teams to go professional here.

The regionalisation of League Two cuts down on travel time and costs too.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Enjoy the celebrations, @61653 HTAFC !

Thanks- thought we were dead and buried at the start of February, so to avoid the drop from where we were then feels like a promotion!
Had a feeling that we'd do what was needed today, but didn't think we'd beat the second best team in the division. Apparently if the season started from when Warnock took over we'd be third in the league- think it's time for the council to start putting money aside for his statue!

Commiserations to Reading, their owners may have breached the rules but the fans didn't. They must absolutely hate us after 2017 and tonight!

 

[THC]

North of the border, it seems that the creation of the Scottish football pyramid has resulted in some of the best football in years below the Premiership.

In the Championship, the league is going down to a final day fight between Queens Park and Dundee, with Dundee needing to get a draw or a win away to get promoted. The playoffs are similarly wide open in the Championship, with only Queen's Park or Dundee guaranteed to qualify. Even with relegation, nothing will be decided until the final whistle.

League One has seen Kelty Hearts survive for another year, while League Two has Bonnyrigg Rose probably surviving.

The only *but* is that I'd like to see a slight revamp to the league format. My ideal league format would be something like this:

Scottish Premiership: remains as is, the 12 team format with the split is widely accepted.
Scottish Championship: Expanded to 18 teams, home/away. Promotion remains as-is, but two teams would go down automatically. Teams finishing 14-16 would enter a relegation playoff along with the 3rd place team in League One. The playoffs would work differently: six games in a mini-league format, winner takes all.
Scottish League One: Remains at 10 teams. Top two would get promoted, third would enter the playoffs. Two teams would get relegated. 7th and 8th would enter the relegation play-offs.
Scottish League Two North and South: 10 teams, top team gets promoted, bottom team gets relegated. The teams that finish 2nd would enter the playoffs. The teams that finish 8th/9th would play off against the teams finishing 2nd/3rd in the Highland/Lowland leagues.

All the playoffs would be organised as a mini-league, with the caveat that the Scottish League Two relegation playoffs would promote one North and one South team, with the highest placed team being promoted.

The reason for a 18 team Championship is that it should be possible to demand that all 18 teams are full time teams. That gives a core of 30 professional teams, while League One would be so unpredictable that it would make no sense for semi-pro teams to go professional here.

The regionalisation of League Two cuts down on travel time and costs too.

The Pyramid is working in spite of the brazen suppression of sides at Tier 6 (East of Scotland, South of Scotland and West of Scotland leagues - the latter in particular). The presence of 'B' teams as "guest sides" in the Lowland League (tier 5) could however prove its undoing, as SFA plans for a new fifth-tier National Conference League would feature four 'B' teams among its ten members and lead to the effective demotion of the Highland League, Lowland League and all leagues below (and what sort of a league would it be where 40% of the sides cannot be promoted or relegated? Ridiculous.)

I know many other Celtic fans who don't see a problem with the presence of 'B' teams in the Pyramid but personally I am dead against it. I hope these plans are rejected by the clubs when put to the vote next month.

THC

 

[RichJF]

For those European football fans it's the first title for Napoli since 1990 & the halcyon days of Maradona. Also the first time since 2001 none of Inter, AC or Juventus have won the league!


Osimhen sealing the title.

 

[d9009alycidon]

North of the border, it seems that the creation of the Scottish football pyramid has resulted in some of the best football in years below the Premiership.

In the Championship, the league is going down to a final day fight between Queens Park and Dundee, with Dundee needing to get a draw or a win away to get promoted. The playoffs are similarly wide open in the Championship, with only Queen's Park or Dundee guaranteed to qualify. Even with relegation, nothing will be decided until the final whistle.

League One has seen Kelty Hearts survive for another year, while League Two has Bonnyrigg Rose probably surviving.

The only *but* is that I'd like to see a slight revamp to the league format. My ideal league format would be something like this:

Scottish Premiership: remains as is, the 12 team format with the split is widely accepted.
Scottish Championship: Expanded to 18 teams, home/away. Promotion remains as-is, but two teams would go down automatically. Teams finishing 14-16 would enter a relegation playoff along with the 3rd place team in League One. The playoffs would work differently: six games in a mini-league format, winner takes all.
Scottish League One: Remains at 10 teams. Top two would get promoted, third would enter the playoffs. Two teams would get relegated. 7th and 8th would enter the relegation play-offs.
Scottish League Two North and South: 10 teams, top team gets promoted, bottom team gets relegated. The teams that finish 2nd would enter the playoffs. The teams that finish 8th/9th would play off against the teams finishing 2nd/3rd in the Highland/Lowland leagues.

All the playoffs would be organised as a mini-league, with the caveat that the Scottish League Two relegation playoffs would promote one North and one South team, with the highest placed team being promoted.

The reason for a 18 team Championship is that it should be possible to demand that all 18 teams are full time teams. That gives a core of 30 professional teams, while League One would be so unpredictable that it would make no sense for semi-pro teams to go professional here.

The regionalisation of League Two cuts down on travel time and costs too.

Totally agree with this. As it stands Division 1 is a nightmare to get back out of if you drop down, teams like Airdrie, QOS, Alloa and Falkirk would do well in a 18 team set up, but as it stands need to go through the playoff dogfight with no certainty of going up.

 

[gnolife]

In the Championship, the league is going down to a final day fight between Queens Park and Dundee, with Dundee needing to get a draw or a win away to get promoted. The playoffs are similarly wide open in the Championship, with only Queen's Park or Dundee guaranteed to qualify. Even with relegation, nothing will be decided until the final whistle.

And it's an absolute cracker of a match at Dens Park - 3-3 at half times - both teams have had the lead, with Queens Park equalising on the brink of half time.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

And it's an absolute cracker of a match at Dens Park - 3-3 at half times - both teams have had the lead, with Queens Park equalising on the brink of half time.

Match is actually at Ochilview (Queens Park's temporary home ground at Stenhousemuir FC) but at least you got the HT score right!

 

[Ascotroyal]

Thanks- thought we were dead and buried at the start of February, so to avoid the drop from where we were then feels like a promotion!
Had a feeling that we'd do what was needed today, but didn't think we'd beat the second best team in the division. Apparently if the season started from when Warnock took over we'd be third in the league- think it's time for the council to start putting money aside for his statue!

Commiserations to Reading, their owners may have breached the rules but the fans didn't. They must absolutely hate us after 2017 and tonight!

Certainly no hate from me. With the way our waste of space owner is running the club it was only a matter of time until we ended up in league 1. 6 years of poor decisions from those at the top.

Only plus to going down is a couple of local derby matches and some grounds iv not been to.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Certainly no hate from me. With the way our waste of space owner is running the club it was only a matter of time until we ended up in league 1. 6 years of poor decisions from those at the top.

Only plus to going down is a couple of local derby matches and some grounds iv not been to.

What's the deal with your current owners? Are they of the "mysterious foreign consortium" type that seem to own more and more English clubs? I know a couple of West Brom fans who aren't happy with their owners who are of that ilk.
Over the coming weeks we're going to have a change of ownership too, with "local boy made good" Dean Hoyle handing over (subject to EFL approval) to Kevin Nagle, an American businessman who is the current owner of Sacramento Republic who play in one of the second-tier (albeit with no promotion there) leagues in the USA. Whether this turns out to be a good thing remains to be seen, but it appears so far that his heart is in the right place at least.

Earlier in the season I'd already prepared myself for League One and was trying to focus on the good aspects: we'd be a slightly bigger fish in a slightly smaller pond, and it's a league where winning promotion isn't quite the poisoned chalice that getting into the Premier League can be. There's the EFL Trophy which can be fun if you get to the later stages, and a chance to visit some non-league grounds in rounds 1 & 2 of the FA Cup. Most of those things also apply to Reading, though you've had longer away from that level so it may be more of a culture shock. If it's any consolation, Plymouth and Ipswich have shown that it's still possible to rise above the so-called bigger clubs currently at that level, though at least one of Derby County and Sheffield Wednesday will still be there next season. On a personal level I'm hoping both are, as I'd rather Bolton or Barnsley win the play-offs!

Out of interest will you be coming to the game on Monday? I know you'd sold out your allocation in anticipation of it being a "winner takes all" game, but there is a discussion on our message board about whether some will stay away now that it's decided. The consensus among our lot is that there's no animosity between the sides other than a bit of a playful grudge about you guys poaching Craig Maskell from us (depends how old you are, I'm just old enough to remember him!) and a feeling that all of your fans were gracious in defeat in 2017. I didn't hear of any of our fans giving it the Billy big-plums attitude after the game, but if they did I can only apologise on their behalf. The atmosphere around Wembley back then was night and day compared to last May with the sore winners from West Bridgford!