Football

[Puffing Devil]

It's hard to post without coming over as bitter blue. These are the facts as I see them:

• The route of City Coach was made public
• Liverpool "Fans" openly planned and stated their intentions publicly on social media
• LFC and Police were 100% aware of what was planned

LFC knew this was planned & let it happen. I've seen no statements from them before the match on the club website or social media asking for this not to take place. This could so easily have been avoided.

Regarding supporters on the train home: All teams have their supporters who display antisocial behaviour. It's wrong and should not happen and I can't condone it in anyway. 99.5% of supporters are as scared/annoyed by this "non-supporting" passengers. We should have sufficient police resources to stamp it out and punish the offenders. However, isolated pockets of annoyance are a long way off a mob attack.

 

[fowler9]

It's hard to post without coming over as bitter blue. These are the facts as I see them:

• The route of City Coach was made public
• Liverpool "Fans" openly planned and stated their intentions publicly on social media
• LFC and Police were 100% aware of what was planned

LFC knew this was planned & let it happen. I've seen no statements from them before the match on the club website or social media asking for this not to take place. This could so easily have been avoided.

Regarding supporters on the train home: All teams have their supporters who display antisocial behaviour. It's wrong and should not happen and I can't condone it in anyway. 99.5% of supporters are as scared/annoyed by this "non-supporting" passengers. We should have sufficient police resources to stamp it out and punish the offenders. However, isolated pockets of annoyance are a long way off a mob attack.

Who made the route known to the public? If it was LFC then that was incredibly stupid and I agree the club should be taken to task over it.

Edit: From what I can find Merseyside Police released the route and several independent forums shared it. Really not sure what the club can do about this or why they should be hit by UEFA unless they released the route themselves which I don't ever recall seeing them do in the past. Forgive me if I am wrong.

 

[507021]

You could say that the attack directly benefitted the team, who were then able to give City the hiding for 45 minutes?

Hardly. Liverpool played the same way as they did when they beat Manchester City in the league in January.

 

[fowler9]

Hardly. Liverpool played the same way as they did when they beat Manchester City in the league in January.

Indeed, we just defended better when ahead this time.

 

[507021]

Indeed, we just defended better when ahead this time.

The defending last night was top quality, I think signing Virgil van Dijk has made a massive difference.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Who made the route known to the public? If it was LFC then that was incredibly stupid and I agree the club should be taken to task over it.

Edit: From what I can find Merseyside Police released the route and several independent forums shared it. Really not sure what the club can do about this or why they should be hit by UEFA unless they released the route themselves which I don't ever recall seeing them do in the past. Forgive me if I am wrong.

Taking a strong stance on Social Media? Making it clear the club does not support any coach greeting as the potential for violence is huge? Condemning any criminal behaviour? Promising club bans for any fans seen to be acting in an anti-social manner.

By not making any active statement before the event the club gave their tacit approval.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

As a most definite neutral, can I ask why the phrase "45 minutes" has appeared in earlier postings. Was the normal 90 minutes not played in this match?

 

[fowler9]

Taking a strong stance on Social Media? Making it clear the club does not support any coach greeting as the potential for violence is huge? Condemning any criminal behaviour? Promising club bans for any fans seen to be acting in an anti-social manner.

By not making any active statement before the event the club gave their tacit approval.

Ah mate. "Taking a strong stance on social media"! How much do they have to do? Apparently Merseyside Police released the route hours before the game, not days. The club helped change the route to try and avoid trouble. When I have bought tickets for away Liverpool games it is made clear that if you missbehave in the ground or before the game the club will take steps. I believe it is implicit that the same applies at home. I have seen people have fan cards and season tickets seized for not being the person named on them. I fail to see what the club can do about people outside the ground other than ban them when identified and this does happen. I used to work with a guy who had to hand his passport in when England played abroad and who was banned from Anfield (he wasn't a friend). He also lost his job when our employer found out.

 

[fowler9]

As a most definite neutral, can I ask why the phrase "45 minutes" has appeared in earlier postings. Was the normal 90 minutes not played in this match?

We didn't press as much in the second half. Especially after Salah went off.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Ah mate. "Taking a strong stance on social media"! How much do they have to do? Apparently Merseyside Police released the route hours before the game, not days. The club helped change the route to try and avoid trouble. When I have bought tickets for away Liverpool games it is made clear that if you missbehave in the ground or before the game the club will take steps. I believe it is implicit that the same applies at home. I have seen people have fan cards and season tickets seized for not being the person named on them. I fail to see what the club can do about people outside the ground other than ban them when identified and this does happen. I used to work with a guy who had to hand his passport in when England played abroad and who was banned from Anfield (he wasn't a friend). He also lost his job when our employer found out.

One simple statement on the club website, twitter and Facebook. Not too hard.

 

[fowler9]

One simple statement on the club website, twitter and Facebook. Not too hard.

Like I said it is made clear when you get a ticket that bad behaviour will not be tolerated. Being a blue you probably know our website better than me but I'll have a look and see what it says later. Maybe they should have posted that "Merseyside Police have released the route but don't go and kick off or we'll ban you". What difference do you reckon that would have made to the nutters? The idiots who did that know that if they get caught they get banned.

 

[507021]

One simple statement on the club website, twitter and Facebook. Not too hard.

It's made very clear here what the club expects from its fans when attending matches, and what the consequences are for breaking the rules.

However, I personally doubt the idiots responsible had tickets anyway, although I hope they are caught and banned from the stadium for life as well as refunding the bus operator for the damage they caused.

 

[AlterEgo]

Taking a strong stance on Social Media? Making it clear the club does not support any coach greeting as the potential for violence is huge? Condemning any criminal behaviour? Promising club bans for any fans seen to be acting in an anti-social manner.

By not making any active statement before the event the club gave their tacit approval.

Making a statement on social media, ooh, very strong. Will definitely stop the thugs from causing havoc (!).

To suggest that Liverpool FC in any way approved of the violence - even tacitly - is pretty desperate. Almost as desperate as suggesting your lads were rattled by it when they weren’t. You were on top for the first ten minutes until we scored.

 

[tony_mac]

One simple statement on the club website, twitter and Facebook. Not too hard.

Like this one?
http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/ann...side-police-statement-anfield-manchester-city
"We ask that any supporters who do wish to gather to show their passion and support for the team, do so in a friendly, respectful and considerate manner."

The route being announced is something of a distraction - they normally use the same route for every game, and everyone knows what it is.
They changed the route due to building works and they didn't want a crowd of people in the wrong place who would end up rushing to get to the right place, for obvious safety reasons.

 

[fowler9]

Like this one?
http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/ann...side-police-statement-anfield-manchester-city
"We ask that any supporters who do wish to gather to show their passion and support for the team, do so in a friendly, respectful and considerate manner."

The route being announced is something of a distraction - they normally use the same route for every game, and everyone knows what it is.
They changed the route due to building works and they didn't want a crowd of people in the wrong place who would end up rushing to get to the right place, for obvious safety reasons.

He is a blue (Evertonian). His civic concern goes as far as LFC getting punished as much as possible for something he knows little about.

 

[AlterEgo]

He is a blue (Evertonian). His civic concern goes as far as LFC getting punished as much as possible for something he knows little about.

Ah, thought he was a City fan. My bad.

However I have to say Everton’s track record in having no violence at all at European games this season has been impressive.

 

[Cowley]

Ah, thought he was a City fan. My bad.

However I have to say Everton’s track record in having no violence at all at European games this season has been impressive.

Oh man that was drier than a dry sherry drunk in the Sahara

 

[SteveP29]

And to make matters worse, sounds like some Town fans might've been involved in disruptive behaviour on the trains home. At least one service cancelled due to "passengers causing a disturbance on the train" (the 1711 from Edinburgh to Manchester Airport).

You sure it was your fans? you'll know that the Edinburgh to Manchester Airport train is routed via the west coast.
Would make no sense for them to go to Carlisle to transfer onto that, going via York must surely be quicker?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

You sure it was your fans? you'll know that the Edinburgh to Manchester Airport train is routed via the west coast.
Would make no sense for them to go to Carlisle to transfer onto that, going via York must surely be quicker?

Reported as such on the Town fans' forum (though no I'm not 100% sure, hence the word "might" ). Looked on RTT as I was doing a more local journey (Dewsbury to Huddersfield) on TPE that evening. Service in question was listed on RTT as running via York IIRC, and appeared on PIS at Dewsbury and Huddersfield. I am admittedly out of the loop on current diversions and so on. Though a service via Carlisle and the WCML wouldn't be showing up on the PIS at places it was never planned to go near, I assume. It would also be a bit pointless restarting a service that wasn't running via York at, er... York!

 

[Old Yard Dog]

I hope Liverpool fans will now stop endlessly pontificating to the rest of us how we ought to behave, as they are wont to do

 

[Darandio]

I hope Liverpool fans will now stop endlessly pontificating to the rest of us how we ought to behave, as they are wont to do

They weren't fans.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

They weren't fans.

Can you be 100% sure of that statement?

 

[Dentonian]

Coming in to the topic of events at Anfield late - and as probably picked up from previous posts; as a City fan - a few observations.

Difficult to say how the incident before the match affected the City performance, if at all - but if a back line involving a fully fit VK let's in 3 goals in 20 odd minutes, something is seriously wrong. Obviously, the players themselves aren't going to say it affected them, as
a. they don't go looking for excuses. VK especially is always honest and never blames anyone but himself for poor performances.
b. If they did offer it as an excuse, its a "victory" for the yobs.

As I understand it, once everyone has gathered their thoughts, MCFC are far more critical of Merseyside Police than they are of LFC.

And, partly trying to look at it as a neutral - only partly - the reason the tie is all but over is due to something much more mundane than the team coach being attacked, or even a very poor first half performance, and its something that has been conveniently overlooked: Poor officiating. In short, Sane was NOT offside when Jesus scored, and Sterling (iirc) should have had a penalty moments before. Note, I'm not raising the point that Salah was offside leading up to his goal, because it was not in the final phase of the attack and (red cards apart), wrong decisions in the 12th minute are not as influencial as wrong decisions 12 minutes from the end.
It might not make much difference in the end, but psychologically (and in terms of viewing figures?), 3-1 in the first leg is totally different to 3-0.

One last obs, I assume the MEN is the only media outlet to report what happened outside exactly the same flashpoint (the Arkles pub) when City left in the replacement coach................................

 

[507021]

Difficult to say how the incident before the match affected the City performance, if at all - but if a back line involving a fully fit VK let's in 3 goals in 20 odd minutes, something is seriously wrong. Obviously, the players themselves aren't going to say it affected them, as
a. they don't go looking for excuses. VK especially is always honest and never blames anyone but himself for poor performances.
b. If they did offer it as an excuse, its a "victory" for the yobs.

I don't think City's defence isn't as good as it's made out to be. It's decent, but its weaknesses have been exposed by Liverpool's "gegenpressing" twice this season. It makes me wonder why other teams haven't tried to so the same, because it clearly works.

As I understand it, once everyone has gathered their thoughts, MCFC are far more critical of Merseyside Police than they are of LFC.

I respect Guardiola for saying what happened is not representative of Liverpool FC.

And, partly trying to look at it as a neutral - only partly - the reason the tie is all but over is due to something much more mundane than the team coach being attacked, or even a very poor first half performance, and its something that has been conveniently overlooked: Poor officiating. In short, Sane was NOT offside when Jesus scored, and Sterling (iirc) should have had a penalty moments before. Note, I'm not raising the point that Salah was offside leading up to his goal, because it was not in the final phase of the attack and (red cards apart), wrong decisions in the 12th minute are not as influencial as wrong decisions 12 minutes from the end.
It might not make much difference in the end, but psychologically (and in terms of viewing figures?), 3-1 in the first leg is totally different to 3-0.

I agree that Sané's goal wasn't offside, but the fact is City lost because they were the poorer side on the night. For what it's worth, I don't think this tie is over because City are more than capable of scoring heavily at home, but then again Liverpool are more than capable of scoring at the Etihad.

One last obs, I assume the MEN is the only media outlet to report what happened outside exactly the same flashpoint (the Arkles pub) when City left in the replacement coach................................

The Liverpool Echo has also reported it.

Jurgen Klopp has commended Manchester City for the “outstanding gesture” the team made after the game - stopping the team coach to help an injured Reds fan.

The Liverpool FC manager commended the actions of City’s medical staff, who reportedly treated a female supporter in the exact spot where their team bus had been attacked hours earlier, in his press conference today.

They told the coach driver to pull over and the City medical team got off the bus, still in their tracksuits, to treat the fan until the emergency services arrived.

 

[Dentonian]

I agree that Sané's goal wasn't offside, but the fact is City lost because they were the poorer side on the night. For what it's worth, I don't think this tie is over because City are more than capable of scoring heavily at home, but then again Liverpool are more than capable of scoring at the Etihad.



The Liverpool Echo has also reported it.

I accept we were poor on the night, but my point is not he fact that we go in to the second leg behind - its that we go into it without an away goal. And I take your point about our defence over all, its just that the stats when Vinnie plays a full 90 minutes have been outstanding in the past. I think there was a period of over a season when we never conceded more than one goal in a match that he played 60+ minutes of. Indeed, I agree Liverpool will score on Tuesday, hence why that away goal would have been so important for us and even the neutral.

Regarding the incident after the match, it is only after I posted the original message I found out that Jurgen had referred to it in his press conference, but the BBC edited it out. Drifting off topic, but the 21st Century BBC might be revered abroad, but the truth is it's just as full of sensationalist half truths as the rest of the London Media, with insidious product placement everywhere.

 

[Antman]

Coming in to the topic of events at Anfield late - and as probably picked up from previous posts; as a City fan - a few observations.

Difficult to say how the incident before the match affected the City performance, if at all - but if a back line involving a fully fit VK let's in 3 goals in 20 odd minutes, something is seriously wrong. Obviously, the players themselves aren't going to say it affected them, as
a. they don't go looking for excuses. VK especially is always honest and never blames anyone but himself for poor performances.
b. If they did offer it as an excuse, its a "victory" for the yobs.

As I understand it, once everyone has gathered their thoughts, MCFC are far more critical of Merseyside Police than they are of LFC.

And, partly trying to look at it as a neutral - only partly - the reason the tie is all but over is due to something much more mundane than the team coach being attacked, or even a very poor first half performance, and its something that has been conveniently overlooked: Poor officiating. In short, Sane was NOT offside when Jesus scored, and Sterling (iirc) should have had a penalty moments before. Note, I'm not raising the point that Salah was offside leading up to his goal, because it was not in the final phase of the attack and (red cards apart), wrong decisions in the 12th minute are not as influencial as wrong decisions 12 minutes from the end.
It might not make much difference in the end, but psychologically (and in terms of viewing figures?), 3-1 in the first leg is totally different to 3-0.

One last obs, I assume the MEN is the only media outlet to report what happened outside exactly the same flashpoint (the Arkles pub) when City left in the replacement coach................................

I totally agree with you about poor officiating and the sooner we get VAR across the board the better, that away goal could have made all the difference. I don't think the tie is beyond City but clearly it's a big task, how much the incident before the game affected the players we'll never know.

 

[fowler9]

The Daily Mail also reported the actions of the Man City medical staff on leaving past The Arkles pub when a Liverpool fan was apparently the victim of a hit and run car accident. I can only give the greatest of thanks to them for leaving the coach sat at the place they received such awful treatment on the way to the ground so they could help treat a Liverpool fan. I am humbled by their actions and ashamed of the behaviour of some of the creatures claiming to support the same team as me.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

No match for Hyde United today as their away fixture at Radcliffe Borough was one of the postponed matches.

 

[familyguy99]

Oxford 0-0 Oldham

Not bad result for Oldham who stay in 19th places with other teams around Oldham dropping points. Oldham play Walsall and Gillingham next week and feel they really need to pick up aleast four points from them two matches to pull away from drop zone.

 

[507021]

I'll take a goalless draw against Everton, considering it was important to rest our key players ahead of Tuesday night's game.

What a save from Karius though.