Football

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I also wonder how many would have known which of those three had a railway station named after them? The answer is of course Roger Casement, and the station is Tralee in the Republic of Ireland. Such occurred as a result of the somewhat bizarre 50th anniversary celebrations of the 1916 Easter Rising, which also saw every major station in the South renamed after one of the executed leaders.

You would most certainly receive a bonus award if an answer of this superb historical quality was ever to be made on the Station Association quiz as an association to a previous posting.

 

[Butts]

Luckiest team of the weekend....yes Hearts.

Hibs were robbed at Easter Road , that ball was way over the line
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Keeping Guzan at Villa Park was a fantastic piece of business

Unfortunately getting rid of Martin O'Neill , Milner , Downing and all the others rather negates the overall outcome :roll:

 

[Karl]

Hibs were robbed at Easter Road , that ball was way over the line

Unbelievable!!... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3996Mg9qppA

How both the referee AND linesman missed that is just incredible. Also the goalkeeper and some of his defenders should hold their hands up and tell the ref it crossed the line. If it had been a close call, a few inches etc, then I can understand them keeping schtum, but to not concede that it was a whole yard over the line is just wrong.

Karl (PNE fan by the way!)

 

[SS4]

Unfortunately getting rid of Martin O'Neill , Milner , Downing and all the others rather negates the overall outcome :roll:

If you find Martin O'Neill's "Plan B" please return it to lost property.

He's not a bad manager but he's not brilliant, he bought big and threw his toys out the pram showing us no respect by quitting five days before the season started when Lerner would no longer bankroll him.

I'm sure you would heat Foxes fans say much the same thing.

 

[balne-wonderer]

Of all those in this phone-in, how many would have had the intelligence to know the correct word for the formal term for the removal of a knighthood or any other bestowed honour is Debasement.

I shall show below three cases where this happened to still-living people:-

Sir Roger Casement had his knighthood removed for treason during the First World War.

Sir Anthony Blunt had his knighthood removed for his long-concealed treason as the fifth man in the Burgess and Maclean affair in 1979.

Sir Fred Goodwin, the former chief executive of the Royal Bank of Scotland had his knighthood removed for his financial overseeing of the financial near-collapse of that major British bank in 2008.

Let us consider how these offences were deemed to be of the severity to lead to that ultimate sanction, then ask ourselves how a person at a football club could ever be considered to have any transgressions that would be remotely comparable to those stated in the three cases shown above.

Your looking at it completley out of context.

Fergie should be able to conduct himself professionally and once again at the weekend he failed to that. He abused the officials during the game and refused to shake hands with Benitez after the game. That type of thing can bring the game into disrepute and Fergie knows he shouldn't be doing that. His lack of class as a person is alarming from someone who has been given a knighthood.

As a 'Sir' he should be at the forefront of the respect campaign, he should be a beacon of good behaviour and he should lead while others follow. He doesn't that, instead he reduces himself to toddler tantrums, obscene abuse of match officials and the refusal to shake the hands of his opponents.

It's time for the 'Sir' to go.

 

[Butts]

Just heard that Tony Gubba has passed away , used to be one of the stalwarts of Grandstand and Sportsnight.

Didn't he have a brother who also worked for the BBC ? - Frank was it ?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Your looking at it completely out of context.

Fergie should be able to conduct himself professionally and once again at the weekend he failed to that. He abused the officials during the game and refused to shake hands with Benitez after the game. That type of thing can bring the game into disrepute and Fergie knows he shouldn't be doing that. His lack of class as a person is alarming from someone who has been given a knighthood.

As a 'Sir' he should be at the forefront of the respect campaign, he should be a beacon of good behaviour and he should lead while others follow. He doesn't that, instead he reduces himself to toddler tantrums, obscene abuse of match officials and the refusal to shake the hands of his opponents.

It's time for the 'Sir' to go.

Out of context hock:...You obviously know very little of how important a matter to the country it needs to be, such as treason or something to affect the very financial fabric of the country, before Debasement is brought into effect. That is why I went to the trouble of citing the three cases over the last 100 years where this has been effected.

Football is just a sport, which is raised to totally high and unrealistic levels by certain people (media and otherwise), totally out of its context to the security of the state or the very financial stability of the national currency. Certain media-projected television programmes such as "Big Brother" which ran concurrently with "redtops" devoting no less than eight pages per programme, is another side of Britain today where reality is ignored in the face of trite and unthinking meaningless scenarios. The Jeremy Kyle television show is a good example of how meaningless inability to react to real life is put forward as a true portrayal of what parts of Britain have descended to in terms of what is important to the country at large.

So look at football for exactly what it is. Just a sport...nothing more, nothing less and stop trying to raise it to the level of anything of national importance. When the conduct of the English Premier League begins to affect the value of sterling or the wholesale cost of gas or the security of our armed forces, then this debate can be continued, but not in the manner of meaningless matters that have no effect whatsoever on the well-being of the country.

I have said what I have said above, as this reflects my true feelings on the matter and I do not intend to become involved in any more fruitless postings that concern a matter of such very little importance.

The sooner that the reality of what is important to the national interest, rather than mere fripperies of sport, the better the place the country will be.

 

[balne-wonderer]

Out of context hock:...You obviously know very little of how important a matter to the country it needs to be, such as treason or something to affect the very financial fabric of the country, before Debasement is brought into effect. That is why I went to the trouble of citing the three cases over the last 100 years where this has been effected.

Football is just a sport, which is raised to totally high and unrealistic levels by certain people (media and otherwise), totally out of its context to the security of the state or the very financial stability of the national currency. Certain media-projected television programmes such as "Big Brother" which ran concurrently with "redtops" devoting no less than eight pages per programme, is another side of Britain today where reality is ignored in the face of trite and unthinking meaningless scenarios. The Jeremy Kyle television show is a good example of how meaningless inability to react to real life is put forward as a true portrayal of what parts of Britain have descended to in terms of what is important to the country at large.

So look at football for exactly what it is. Just a sport...nothing more, nothing less and stop trying to raise it to the level of anything of national importance. When the conduct of the English Premier League begins to affect the value of sterling or the wholesale cost of gas or the security of our armed forces, then this debate can be continued, but not in the manner of meaningless matters that have no effect whatsoever on the well-being of the country.

I have said what I have said above, as this reflects my true feelings on the matter and I do not intend to become involved in any more fruitless postings that concern a matter of such very little importance.

The sooner that the reality of what is important to the national interest, rather than mere fripperies of sport, the better the place the country will be.

I was merely repeating what was discussed on the radio, i'm not sure why you have decided to attack me and tell me what to do, as what i've bolded.

Alex Ferguson was given a knighthood because of 'services' to football Paul. Not because he solved world peace or came up with a solution to the banking crises.

He was given his knighthood BECAUSE of football and the discussion on him losing it was BECAUSE of football as well. Your trying to blow all this out of context and single me out as usual, which is getting dull now. This man was recongnised for what he has achieved in the game but he has gone on to soil those achievements in the eyes of some which has called into question his honour. Lets try and keep this on football. Fergie's current conduct is a big point of discussion in football at the moment, it's topical you know.

The arguement you make seems to be suggest he should never have been given a knighthood in the first place for something as "meaningless" as football anyway.

 

[JoeH]

It's time for the 'Sir' to go.

I was merely repeating what was discussed on the radio,

This certainly isn't the first time you have expressed a controversial opinion and then when questioned about it hidden behind the claim that you are merely repeating something you've heard on the radio.

A lengthy post in your own words explaining why you think Alex Ferguson has failed to live up to the standards you expect of a 'Sir' ending with the assertion that it's time that he was stripped of that honour certainly seems like your own opinion.

 

[Geezertronic]

...[Ferguson] refused to shake hands with Benitez after the game

As I understand it, Ferguson didn't shake hands with Benitez on the touchline before the game started so Benitez didn't shake hands with Ferguson after the game had finished.

 

[Oswyntail]

Football is merely a game, and Manchester United is merely one club among many. Ferguson should never have been knighted, because his "achievements" are trivial in the grand scheme of things (IIRC, he was a "Blair Babe", part of "Cool Britannia"). And yes, I think sportsmen should only be given an MBE or OBE for their achievements, unless they contribute in another, more significant field. However, once the old haggis has been dubbed, it would have to be something really important to justify his undubbing. Many a knight has been a total prat before, and history is full of selfish, opinionated, idiotic bullies who have kept their titles. Egad, even people with the manners of a Glasgow shipworker have been known to have been addressed as "Sir". A little perspective is required.

 

[richw]

There are many more controversial knighted individuals than Sir Alex, although that discussion is for another thread as non football based,
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Hoping we get another series of Little Britain or Come Fly With Me to look forward to now Matt Lucas has left Reading this afternoon.

 

[SS4]

As long as Manchester United beat Reading next weekend all will be good. 5-0 or more please .

 

[FGW_Lad]

Joke of a decision. What good is it gonna do sacking him for 9 games left? Anton & Madejski have royally phucked up this season by not backing him. He has done a amazing job the last 3 years and people so quick to forget that. The abuse from the fans to him & the players on Saturday was pathetic. Sums up all that is wrong with Reading FC at the moment.

 

[richw]

Joke of a decision. What good is it gonna do sacking him for 9 games left? Anton & Madejski have royally phucked up this season by not backing him. He has done a amazing job the last 3 years and people so quick to forget that. The abuse from the fans to him & the players on Saturday was pathetic. Sums up all that is wrong with Reading FC at the moment.

Sadly it is not only Reading where such goes on, I think I seen somewhere the average manager in the N Power leagues is currently at 1.4 years!!

 

[Ivo]

I hope Reading fans enjoy the Championship next season

...the average manager in the N Power leagues is currently at 1.4 years!!

That long? hock:

This from the LMA makes interesting reading.

Only six of the current 92 have been in their current job for more than five years (in fact, 4¼ years), the top four of whom - Fergie, Wenger, Moyes and Pulis - are all in the Prem. Only Paul Tisdale at Exeter and Kenny Jackett at Millwall can claim the same statistic among the rest of the League!

Next few:

Greg Abbott (Carlisle, since December 2008)
Chris Wilder (Oxford, Dec '08)
Nigel Clough (Derby, Jan '09)
Roberto Martinez (Wigan, Jun '09)
Gus Poyet (Brighton, Nov '09)
Roberto Mancini (Man City, Dec '09)

Yes folks, Mancini is 12th. Really. And it only seems like last year that Clough joined Derby too.

In fact, only 22* managers - i.e. one-in-four - have been in their current post for more than two years!

Even Brendan Rodgers - appointed only nine months ago - is in the top half...

*The list suggests 23, but it includes Brian McDermott in 14th. Four clubs are not shown in the list and thus assumed to have no current full-time manager, or have changed very recently.

 

[richw]

Only Paul Tisdale at Exeter

A couple of seasons back, Exeter granted a couple of other clubs (of higher league positions and financial backing) to speak to Paul Tisdale, and Tisdale went to the board and said he was happy with his job and if it was ok with them he wouldnt be speaking to the other clubs.
Sadly he bucked the trend with regards to loyalty

Also Mark Yates at Cheltenham was appointed within a matter of days of Mancini, so is only out of the top 12 by a few days.

 

[atomicdanny]

There are pages and pages of posts in this thread about the Nani red card in a week where there are two other high boot incidents that don't seem to get even a mention. There's no doubt that the Crouch one was worse and I would say that the Hazard one also looked it, from what ITV bothered showing.

Its because its Man Utd, as far as most people are aware they only win by getting offside goals, dodgy penalties, getting the other team's players sent off and / or their goals being disallowed. Apparently that is Manchester United can't win without the help of the referee (even if the result is 4 or 5 -0!)

 

[bb21]

Joke of a decision. What good is it gonna do sacking him for 9 games left? Anton & Madejski have royally phucked up this season by not backing him. He has done a amazing job the last 3 years and people so quick to forget that. The abuse from the fans to him & the players on Saturday was pathetic. Sums up all that is wrong with Reading FC at the moment.

Compare Reading's average attendance with when they were in the third tier, in the same stadium, and that should explain why there are so many idiots around. People who only support their teams when they are winning. They will all disappear as quickly as they came out of the woodwork in the first place if Reading gets relegated back to the third tier.

Pathetic really. What Reading has achieved in the last ten years or so should make every single fan proud. Abusing a manager who got you (back) into the Premiership? You're not fit to be a fan.

 

[andrew bell]

People who only support their teams when they are winning. They will all disappear as quickly as they came out of the woodwork in the first place if Reading gets relegated back to the third tier.

Or even go back to support their original club, that being Wycombe Wanderers. I know of at least 50 people who stopped going to Adams Park and go to the Mad Stad instead

 

[Ivo]

If I may folks, I would like to draw your attention to a project I am working on. When done, this will chart every club to have played in the PL or FL since the former was first created in 1992*, and will give an average position for that club as well. Ties will be decided primarily by number of seasons spent in higher divisions, and of course time in the League period.

We all know that Manchester United will come out on top, and that the likes of Scarborough, Barnet, Hereford, Accrington, Aldershot and a few others will be stuck near the bottom, but where will your clubs shape up? Will they be Top Half (i.e. 46th or better)? And who will turn out to be consistent? Will anyone flirt with relegation every year (Southampton)? Who will be the unlucky ones who fail in the Play-Offs every year (Tranmere)?

For the record, for Southend my bet is 57th, i.e. the equivalent of 13th in League One. I have only done up to 1996 so far though and in that time their position would have been far better (i.e. roughly 40th). I honestly don't know where they will end up.

When this mammoth task is done, you can rest assured that I will publicise the results on here. I hope to be ready within the next day or two.

Maidstone are not included as their record was one postponement in August 1992 and then bankruptcy, meaning they didn't actually play in the post-1992 FL per se.

Compare Reading's average attendance with when they were in the third tier, in the same stadium, and that should explain why there are so many idiots around. People who only support their teams when they are winning. They will all disappear as quickly as they came out of the woodwork in the first place if Reading gets relegated back to the third tier.

Pathetic really. What Reading has achieved in the last ten years or so should make every single fan proud. Abusing a manager who got you (back) into the Premiership? You're not fit to be a fan.

Well put. Let's not forget that they had never even been in the top flight until 2006 (albeit because of a bit of bad luck in 1995), and yet now they seem to think that they have the right to be a permanent fixture in the top flight.

News Flash: You don't. Look at Juventus, or Rangers. Two clubs who also "had" the right, only to lose that status recently (granted, under very different and in the latter's case almost voluntary circumstances). Do they ever chant about this stuff? Indeed, as Matt shows Rangers fans seem to enjoy watching their team's football, even in the fourth tier - and possibly more than before too. Where they can mingle with "real fans", those who care passionately about the struggles their teams go through, and not some £200K p/w primadonna in London or Manchester, or even some £20K p/w primadonna somewhere else in the Prem.

If Reading do go down, their attendance won't be at the top unless Brighton go up and Sheff Wed go down this season, and they are fighting for promotion next season. Which they don't have an automatic right to either.

Or even go back to support their original club, that being Wycombe Wanderers. I know of at least 50 people who stopped going to Adams Park and go to the Mad Stad instead

Hmm. My only criticism of this is that the Reading fans I know started following them instead of Liverpool...

They live in Winnersh though. Might explain a bit.

 

[FGW_Lad]

Compare Reading's average attendance with when they were in the third tier, in the same stadium, and that should explain why there are so many idiots around. People who only support their teams when they are winning. They will all disappear as quickly as they came out of the woodwork in the first place if Reading gets relegated back to the third tier.

Pathetic really. What Reading has achieved in the last ten years or so should make every single fan proud. Abusing a manager who got you (back) into the Premiership? You're not fit to be a fan.

Brilliantly said. One of my very first games was losing 6-0 to Bristol Rovers in League 1 back in 1999, then saw us go to Cardiff and narrowly miss out in the playoff final to the Championship. I never thought I'd dream of seeing my local team play in the biggest league in the world.

Those so called "fans" have probably never seen us below Championship level. McDermott is one of the best managers we've ever had and whilst he's made mistakes this season did not deserve the crap he got. Makes me ashamed of our fans.

 

[balne-wonderer]

Who is the early favourite for the job?

just checked. Di canio and di matteo favourites. adkins also up there.

 

[Ivo]

balne-wonderer: Di Canio apparently. Would show Swindon right (especially moving to a semi-rival).

-------------------------------

Sorry to break up the Reading melodrama, but I thought I would share some experimental results to date, now that all the required working is in place (and can be continued through to 2012 when done).

Selected clubs' form and overall League position, seasons 1992-93 to 1995-96...

Arsenal ....   4 ( 7.75) >>> PL   4
Aston Villa   =5 ( 8.75) >>> PL  =5
Birmingham .  44 (41.75) >>> CH  24
Blackburn ..   2 ( 3.75) >>> PL   2
Bournemouth   65 (62.25) >>> L1  21
Chelsea ....  12 (11.75) >>> PL  12
Everton ....  13 (12.75) >>> PL  13
Leeds ......   9 (10.00) >>> PL   9
Liverpool ..   3 ( 5.25) >>> PL   3
Man City ...  16 (15.00) >>> PL  16
Man Utd ....   1 ( 1.25) >>> PL   1
Newcastle ..  =5 ( 8.75) >>> PL  =5
Oldham .....  27 (28.50) >>> CH   7
Preston ....  71 (71.50) >>> L2   3
Reading ....  41 (41.00) >>> CH  21
Scunthorpe . =82 (80.50) >>> L2 =14
Southend ...  38 (36.50) >>> CH  18
Tottenham ..   8 ( 9.50) >>> PL   8
West Ham ...  17 (15.25) >>> PL  17
Wolves ..... =28 (32.25) >>> CH  =8

I've added every club I can remember that regulars on this thread follow. If I've missed your club, or there is outstanding data you would like to see (only 1992-1996 at this stage remember), either post here or send me a PM and I'll get back to you ASAP.

 

[balne-wonderer]

I hope Reading fans enjoy the Championship next season


That long? hock:

This from the LMA makes interesting reading.

Only six of the current 92 have been in their current job for more than five years (in fact, 4¼ years), the top four of whom - Fergie, Wenger, Moyes and Pulis - are all in the Prem. Only Paul Tisdale at Exeter and Kenny Jackett at Millwall can claim the same statistic among the rest of the League!

Next few:

Greg Abbott (Carlisle, since December 2008)
Chris Wilder (Oxford, Dec '08)
Nigel Clough (Derby, Jan '09)
Roberto Martinez (Wigan, Jun '09)
Gus Poyet (Brighton, Nov '09)
Roberto Mancini (Man City, Dec '09)

Yes folks, Mancini is 12th. Really. And it only seems like last year that Clough joined Derby too.

In fact, only 22* managers - i.e. one-in-four - have been in their current post for more than two years!

Even Brendan Rodgers - appointed only nine months ago - is in the top half...

*The list suggests 23, but it includes Brian McDermott in 14th. Four clubs are not shown in the list and thus assumed to have no current full-time manager, or have changed very recently.

that list is staggering.

 

[gnolife]

balne-wonderer: Di Canio apparently. Would show Swindon right (especially moving to a semi-rival).

-------------------------------

Sorry to break up the Reading melodrama, but I thought I would share some experimental results to date, now that all the required working is in place (and can be continued through to 2012 when done).

Selected clubs' form and overall League position, seasons 1992-93 to 1995-96...

Arsenal ....   4 ( 7.75) >>> PL   4
Aston Villa   =5 ( 8.75) >>> PL  =5
Birmingham .  44 (41.75) >>> CH  24
Blackburn ..   2 ( 3.75) >>> PL   2
Bournemouth   65 (62.25) >>> L1  21
Chelsea ....  12 (11.75) >>> PL  12
Everton ....  13 (12.75) >>> PL  13
Leeds ......   9 (10.00) >>> PL   9
Liverpool ..   3 ( 5.25) >>> PL   3
Man City ...  16 (15.00) >>> PL  16
Man Utd ....   1 ( 1.25) >>> PL   1
Newcastle ..  =5 ( 8.75) >>> PL  =5
Oldham .....  27 (28.50) >>> CH   7
Preston ....  71 (71.50) >>> L2   3
Reading ....  41 (41.00) >>> CH  21
Scunthorpe . =82 (80.50) >>> L2 =14
Southend ...  38 (36.50) >>> CH  18
Tottenham ..   8 ( 9.50) >>> PL   8
West Ham ...  17 (15.25) >>> PL  17
Wolves ..... =28 (32.25) >>> CH  =8

I've added every club I can remember that regulars on this thread follow. If I've missed your club, or there is outstanding data you would like to see (only 1992-1996 at this stage remember), either post here or send me a PM and I'll get back to you ASAP.

I've heard that Nigel Adkins is favourite for the Reading job
My clubs missing from that list

 

[balne-wonderer]

balne-wonderer: Di Canio apparently. Would show Swindon right (especially moving to a semi-rival).

-------------------------------

Sorry to break up the Reading melodrama, but I thought I would share some experimental results to date, now that all the required working is in place (and can be continued through to 2012 when done).

Selected clubs' form and overall League position, seasons 1992-93 to 1995-96...

Arsenal ....   4 ( 7.75) >>> PL   4
Aston Villa   =5 ( 8.75) >>> PL  =5
Birmingham .  44 (41.75) >>> CH  24
Blackburn ..   2 ( 3.75) >>> PL   2
Bournemouth   65 (62.25) >>> L1  21
Chelsea ....  12 (11.75) >>> PL  12
Everton ....  13 (12.75) >>> PL  13
Leeds ......   9 (10.00) >>> PL   9
Liverpool ..   3 ( 5.25) >>> PL   3
Man City ...  16 (15.00) >>> PL  16
Man Utd ....   1 ( 1.25) >>> PL   1
Newcastle ..  =5 ( 8.75) >>> PL  =5
Oldham .....  27 (28.50) >>> CH   7
Preston ....  71 (71.50) >>> L2   3
Reading ....  41 (41.00) >>> CH  21
Scunthorpe . =82 (80.50) >>> L2 =14
Southend ...  38 (36.50) >>> CH  18
Tottenham ..   8 ( 9.50) >>> PL   8
West Ham ...  17 (15.25) >>> PL  17
Wolves ..... =28 (32.25) >>> CH  =8

I've added every club I can remember that regulars on this thread follow. If I've missed your club, or there is outstanding data you would like to see (only 1992-1996 at this stage remember), either post here or send me a PM and I'll get back to you ASAP.

good work mate.

 

[Ivo]

Thank you Lots to do yet, but it'll be worth it in the long run.

Dan: League only at the moment Sorry!

 

[EM2]

Ivo - I was going to say 20th for West Ham, what with the amount of times we've been up and down! 17th is quite a nice surprise

 

[Ivo]

Halfway now, so an update using the same 20 clubs as before. Halfway is defined as 1992-2002.

Arsenal ....   2 ( 4.20) >>> PL   2
Aston Villa    5 ( 7.40) >>> PL  =5
Birmingham .  31 (32.30) >>> CH  11
Blackburn ..   9 (11.50) >>> PL   9
Bournemouth   59 (59.00) >>> L1  15
Chelsea ....   6 ( 7.70) >>> PL  6
Everton ....  11 (14.10) >>> PL  11
Leeds ......   4 ( 7.20) >>> PL   4
Liverpool ..   3 ( 4.40) >>> PL   3
Man City ...  22 (24.40) >>> CH   2
Man Utd ....   1 ( 1.40) >>> PL   1
Newcastle ..   7 ( 8.80) >>> PL   7
Oldham ..... =44 (44.80) >>> L1  =4
Preston ....  53 (55.00) >>> L1   9
Reading .... =44 (44.80) >>> L1  =4
Scunthorpe .  82 (77.20) >>> L2  14
Southend ...  58 (58.70) >>> L1  14
Tottenham ..   8 (10.40) >>> PL   8
West Ham ...  10 (11.90) >>> PL  10
Wolves .....  29 (29.00) >>> CH   9

Note that there were four new additions to the League in this period, meaning a club standing still - especially near the bottom (*cough* Scunthorpe *cough*) - is actually climbing a small distance.

Trust Southend to fall the furthest of the 20 :roll:

I was going to say 20th for West Ham, what with the amount of times we've been up and down! 17th is quite a nice surprise

You'll be pleased to read the above then! Unfortunately however, it won't last so enjoy the top half while you can - not with the yo-yo status of the club that you've alluded to coming to fruition imminently...

I reckon you will end up somewhere in the region of 14th. Whilst it is true that they have had a yo-yo existence of late, West Ham have never really fallen beyond the remit of the Premiership - either the PL itself or the chasing pack.