Football

[Butts]

Well Matt , SS4 and the rest of the apologists for football finances it looks like the Premier League has been rumbled in the "Tax Avoidance League of Shame"

http://www.independent.co.uk/money/tax/ios-investigation-footballs-tax-shame-8373895.html

Turnover 2.2 Billion .... CorporationTax Paid 3 Million oh dear !! - Looks like they are up to the same tricks as Starbucks et al but I doubt they will attract the same level of criticism.

In the figures only seven or eight clubs made a profit yet they are still paying mediocre players astronomical sums and pumping the fans with ever increasing costs who seemingly "grin and bear it"

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Well Matt , SS4 and the rest of the apologists for football finances it looks like the Premier League has been rumbled in the "Tax Avoidance League of Shame"

http://www.independent.co.uk/money/tax/ios-investigation-footballs-tax-shame-8373895.html

It would be interesting to see the statisticians amongst us on the thread produce a "league table" on English Premiership clubs showing how diverse the actual country base of the club owners is, which will reflect the "accountancy country of origin" of these club owners.

 

[Oswyntail]

Football Conference..Premiership

Hyde 7 (SEVEN)...Woking 0...

I thought this looked to be a very difficult home game for Hyde, as Woking are not all that bad a team and last Saturday, Woking had beaten Farnborough by the same score, 7-0, in the FA Trophy match.

What an amazing scoreline.

Congratulations to the team. After a shaky start to the season, they seem to have found the confidence that they are not out of their depth. A couple of seasons in the Prem then challenge for promotion(if they want to)?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Elgin have estimated that 17,000,000 fans travelled down to Ibrox for today's SFA Cup Third Round tie.
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Get in there AFC!
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Well, franchise may have won the battle but I think the fact that AFC Wimbledon got there so fast shows who's winning the war. I genuinely can't remember a match that has united so many random fans for one team.

 

[Johnuk123]

Elgin have estimated that 17,000,000 fans travelled down to Ibrox for today's SFA Cup Third Round tie.
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Get in there AFC!
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Well, franchise may have won the battle but I think the fact that AFC Wimbledon got there so fast shows who's winning the war. I genuinely can't remember a match that has united so many random fans for one team.

17 million fans is definitely a lot from Elgin, must have been several coaches.

 

[SS4]

Elgin have estimated that 17,000,000 fans travelled down to Ibrox for today's SFA Cup Third Round tie.

Overselling tickets again eh

Meanwhile in Cup news we're at home (for once!) to Ipswich

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Full draw:
Crystal Palace v Stoke
Brighton v Newcastle
Tottenham v Coventry City
Wigan v Bournemouth
Fulham v Blackpool
Aston Villa v Ipswich
Charlton v Huddersfield
Barrow or Macclesfield v Cardiff
Barnsley v Burnley
Manchester City v Watford
Swansea v Arsenal
Leicester v Burton
Millwall v Preston
Cheltenham or Hereford v Everton
Derby v Tranmere
Crawley v Reading
Aldershot v Rotherham or Notts County
Middlesbrough v Harrogate or Hastings
Accrington Stanley or Oxford v Sheffield United
Southampton v Chelsea
QPR v West Brom
Peterborough v Norwich
Lincoln or Mansfield v Liverpool
Bolton v Sunderland
Nottingham Forest v Oldham
West Ham v Manchester United
Hull v Alfreton or Leyton Orient
Blackburn v Bristol City
Leeds v Birmingham
Bury or Southend v Bradford or Brentford
Luton v Wolves
Sheffield Wednesday v MK Dons

 

[CC 72100]

West Ham away? Not too pleased with that. Doubt Arsenal will be looking forward to going to the Liberty either.

As for Hereford or Cheltenham v Everton, really hope the boys from Herefordshire get a result on Monday night to set this up, Everton at home would be a huge boost to the club coffers given the current financial state. Could have an upset, 40 years since Ronnie Radford v Newcastle in '72!

 

[313103]

It would seem that Arsenal will have just a 90 minute play in this seasons FA Cup, being drawn away at Swansea will certainly give the Arsenal supporters something else to moan about or at best continue there current grievances against the clubs policy of looking after the money rather then spending it to at least catch up with some of the big spenders.

As an aside i think us Arsenal fans should get real and consider that we have now become like Liverpool, a once great club now just a club with mid table mediocrity.

 

[Ivo]

Here's hoping Mansfield/Lincoln win their Third Round match

Could have an upset, 40 years since Ronnie Radford v Newcastle in '72!

Sod off. We've been much better in the Cup over the last few years and I don't want some plucky nobodies ruining that!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I take it 'in recent years' is any time after you lost Shrewsbury Town in the same round about ten years ago? :P

 

[12CSVT]

Some potential for 'banana skins' in the third round.

In particular, the likes of Cardiff City, Everton, Liverpool, Middlesbrough and Wolves should be very afraid on January 5th / 6th.

 

[Ivo]

I take it 'in recent years' is any time after you lost Shrewsbury Town in the same round about ten years ago? :P

Shrewsbury is the exact match I was thinking of. But post-2008 is where the hitty-hitting form really lies. Louis Saha did set a Final record for fastest goal, taking it from the club he scored against (and the manager they sacked a few days ago from the current perspective), after all

In particular, the likes of ... Liverpool ... should be very afraid on January 5th / 6th.

Did someone say Havant? (I think my brother took these pictures.)

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Latics won today against Doncaster 3-1 mean they are in hat for third round ties and I'm hoping they get Manchester club, Arsenal or Chelsea speical away to any of them but, I be happy if they got drawn against Barrow or Macclesfield as it give Oldham more chance of reaching four round ties and more money for Latics.

How do you feel about being drawn away to Nottingham Forest ? I remember losing 1-0 to them in the 1990 League Cup Final at Wembley..

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Regarding the Beckham issue:
Bring him back to Preston!
On a more serious note, with transfer window only a month away, what will be the biggest moves planned (if any yet besides Beckham's saga) and what moves do you expect/hope for?

Atletico Madrid's Radamel Falcao to Chelsea looks a dead cert. Hopefully that will end the time of Torres at Chelsea, in a way I feel sorry for him, like I did with Shevchenko there too. Rumours around today of Torres joining Samuel Eto'o at Anzhi in deepest, darkest Russia.

 

[bb21]

Full draw:
...
Wigan v Bournemouth
...

Tut tut. I think I prefer an away tie at Southend.

 

[Eng274]

A very ugly win for Hibs against an ugly team at Easter Road last night, ensuring Hearts' reign as cup winners is the shortest in scottish football history! The gunts' tactics were hoofball at its worst, and playing for a replay at their ground for the extra dosh! Ironic that the fans, so concerned with their club's finances, did it no favours by tearing up the seats in the away end- the bill for which, will be sent to Hearts, straight out of their share of the gate money. Bring on the next round! GGTTH

 

[Butts]

A very ugly win for Hibs against an ugly team at Easter Road last night, ensuring Hearts' reign as cup winners is the shortest in scottish football history! The gunts' tactics were hoofball at its worst, and playing for a replay at their ground for the extra dosh! Ironic that the fans, so concerned with their club's finances, did it no favours by tearing up the seats in the away end- the bill for which, will be sent to Hearts, straight out of their share of the gate money. Bring on the next round! GGTTH

Thankyou for that impartial account of your first victory over Hearts in many years

 

[balne-wonderer]

Should have been 5-3. TalkSport saying it went over the line, not given.

YES, you read that right, a decision went against United.*

*for the benefit of the conspiracy theorists and anti-United brigade.
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Although correct me if I'm wrong, Portsmouth 7 Reading 4 was highest scoring total game was it not?

Watch it again, there is a clear foul by Smalling on the Reading defender, totally blatent. The goal not given is completly irrelevent.

Plus, Reading were denied a clear penalty. Nothing changes, Salford still got all the big decisions.
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A good win for Leeds today in what sounded like an exciting game. Unlike the first half from Upton Park

A cracker mate. I don't know what has happened in the last three games but wins over Palace, Leicester and our ultimate bogey team Huddersfield and we are 10th in the league all of a sudden.

We played very well, the midfield of loans and free transfers with Michael Tonge, David Norris, Paul Green and Jerome Thomas were excellent. The Town defence couldn't get near Becchio and McCormack looks to be getting back to full fitness.

A really good win, a great performance. What a strange bunch the town fans are though.

 

[atomicdanny]

Watch it again, there is a clear foul by Smalling on the Reading defender, totally blatent. The goal not given is completly irrelevent.

Plus, Reading were denied a clear penalty. Nothing changes, Salford still got all the big decisions.

and clearly no bias here then....:roll: (you see the penalty not given as the ref showing bias towards Manchester United but ignore the fact that he clearly wasn't when there was a goal missed...) Pretty much expected from someone as anti united as you are. Last time i checked that a goal not given is still a big decision and would have made it 5-3 and if reading scored the penalty as you claim it was it would have been 5-4...

(I still think that it wasn't a penalty though)

 

[Donny Dave]

and clearly no bias here then....:roll:

Ignore the football troll ....

Despite his claims quite a few pages back now that he does not care about Manchester United one way or another, the majority of his posts in this topic are rants against Manchester United. Even when someone breaks down a refereeing performance to show that while they get the bigs calls going in their favour in a match, but every decision is correct, it's not a good referee, but a conspiricy in favour of them, while ignoring the big decisions that go against them, such as the goal that never was on Saturday ....

Meanwhile, back in the real world of League 1 ....

Scunthorpe United didn't lose at the weekend (don't let the fact that they didn't have a game fool you though :P )

 

[CC 72100]

and clearly no bias here then....:roll: (you see the penalty not given as the ref showing bias towards Manchester United but ignore the fact that he clearly wasn't when there was a goal missed...) Pretty much expected from someone as anti united as you are. Last time i checked that a goal not given is still a big decision and would have made it 5-3 and if reading scored the penalty as you claim it was it would have been 5-4...

(I still think that it wasn't a penalty though)

Haha, I too was waiting for this to pop up, see of we'd have a rant or be honest and admit that we won fairly and squarely with a decision going against us.

Can't add anything myself to what you've written, last time I checked a goal was very relevant!
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Ignore the football troll ....

Despite his claims quite a few pages back now that he does not care about Manchester United one way or another, the majority of his posts in this topic are rants against Manchester United. Even when someone breaks down a refereeing performance to show that while they get the bigs calls going in their favour in a match, but every decision is correct, it's not a good referee, but a conspiricy in favour of them, while ignoring the big decisions that go against them, such as the goal that never was on Saturday ....

Meanwhile, back in the real world of League 1 ....

Scunthorpe United didn't lose at the weekend (don't let the fact that they didn't have a game fool you though :P )

Also agree 100%, but it's fun to break down daft conspiracy arguments with a dose of reality for all to see

 

[balne-wonderer]

Like I said, watch it again. There is a clear foul by Smalling, totally blatent but the ref choosed to ignore it (oddly enough)

Plus, I do believe on goal-line decisions that it's the assistant ref that makes the call and he had earlier let Salford get away with a dodgy offside so perhaps that evened it out a bit.

Bit like I say, Van Persie never should have had the chance to get the shot on goal because it should have been a Reading free kick in the first place.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....Nothing changes, Salford still got all the big decisions....

....he had earlier let Salford get away with a dodgy offside so perhaps that evened it out a bit....

Please don't taint Salford (or it's real football team) by moving that football ground to the other side of the Ship Canal, it is in Trafford, not Salford.....

 

[Ivo]

I think we need some means to settle this. We have come to a de facto Gentlemen's Agreement that the status of Rangers is no longer discussed ad nauseum in this thread; perhaps the time has come to install a similar rule with regards to the apparent bias towards Manchester United.

To quote MattE2010's Original Post:

I don't want this to turn into a platform of match analysis etc

If all people do is criticise the referee (and/or his assistants), are we not "flouting" this very rule?

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Tut tut. I think I prefer an away tie at Southend.

I'm glad someone does I warn you though - things are going well at Roots Hall these days. Sturrock has a very real chance of winning Manager of the Month.
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Meanwhile, some interesting developments north of the border...

SPL clubs pursue plan for two divisions of 12 teams

Scottish Premier League clubs have unanimously agreed to pursue their plan to expand the top flight to two divisions of 12 teams.

Chief executive Neil Doncaster says the present 12 clubs were united at their meeting at Hampden Park.

They will now propose what they describe as their 24-18 model to the Scottish Football League and Scottish Football Association on Thursday.

The 18 refers to the remaining SFL clubs not included in the top leagues.

No formal vote was expected to be taken by the SPL, but a show of hands was needed to allow Doncaster to progress the plan.

Dundee United chairman Stephen Thompson's resignation from the SPL board last week had placed some doubt on the ability of the 12 clubs to produce a consensus.

However, after a three-hour meeting at Hampden, Doncaster emerged to say that agreement had been reached.

The SFL's 30 clubs had previously agreed to support its proposal for leagues of 16, 10 and 16.

However, the SPL has been speaking informally to SFL clubs and sources believe they have the numbers necessary to gather sufficient support.

The SPL would invite clubs to enter the league, determined by their league positions prior to the start of any re-organised season.

It hopes that this would head off criticism from those who might argue that re-organisation is being used as a vehicle to accelerate Rangers' return to the top division.

A 24-18 structure seems somewhat awkward to me. Would we have two divisions of 12, as suggested above, and then one of 18? Surely 18 is too great a number for one division when compared with not only the rest of the proposal, but also the present set-up? Or perhaps two new clubs could be drafted in from other Leagues in the country; perhaps Edinburgh City and Cove Rangers could be considered?

N.B.: Both articles are from the BBC.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I think we need some means to settle this. We have come to a de facto Gentlemen's Agreement that the status of Rangers is no longer discussed ad nauseum in this thread; perhaps the time has come to install a similar rule with regards to the apparent bias towards Manchester United.

I must agree with your sentiments expressed with regards to the Gentleman's Agreement covering that other matter, noting some of the postings that have been made today.

I would add to your posting......and the apparent bias AGAINST Manchester United (noting the emotive wording that has been expressed in some of the recent postings on this thread).

 

[SS4]

I'm not sure of how the mechanics would work either. Presumably nothing much would change - there'd just be greater competition to get into the second of the twelve team leagues.

As for discussion of Manchester United I think it should be allowed to continue. If we forbid questionable decisions about Manchester United must we then not discuss, or impose limits, on discussions regarding questionable decisions for other clubs? Indeed, it would be an apparent bias to no longer discuss them. The rangers question (assuming it's about their demotion/financial woes) was related to matters off the pitch of which nobody could be sure about and took place behind closed doors whereas this is typically from on the pitch matters.

Not that I'm complaining Man Utd won though, we needed Reading to lose!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

A 24-18 structure seems somewhat awkward to me. Would we have two divisions of 12, as suggested above, and then one of 18? Surely 18 is too great a number for one division when compared with not only the rest of the proposal, but also the present set-up? Or perhaps two new clubs could be drafted in from other Leagues in the country; perhaps Edinburgh City and Cove Rangers could be considered.

A division of 18 clubs would mean a season of 34 matches (with only one home and one away match). The lower divisions already play two home and away matches in each season based upon a lower number of clubs, so the 18 club league will not involve much of a difference in number of games played per club in a season.

I note that you have mentioned Cove Rangers from the Highland League and would note that two former members of that league, Inverness Caledonian Thistle and Ross County, are actually now members of the Scottish Premiership and the other clubs from that league have held their own in the lower divisions of the Scottish League.
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As for discussion of Manchester United I think it should be allowed to continue. If we forbid questionable decisions about Manchester United must we then not discuss, or impose limits, on discussions regarding questionable decisions for other clubs? Indeed, it would be an apparent bias to no longer discuss them.

I note what you say, but we do not see weekly inquests upon questionable decisions involving Stoke City, Norwich City and West Bromwich Albion to name but three other teams in the Premiership. I am sure that many questionable decisions are made in matches involving those three clubs, but this forum sees a deathly quiet about those decisions.

 

[CC 72100]

I note what you say, but we do not see weekly inquests upon questionable decisions involving Stoke City, Norwich City and West Bromwich Albion to name but three other teams in the Premiership. I am sure that many questionable decisions are made in matches involving those three clubs, but this forum sees a deathly quiet about those decisions.

The forum is just a small-scale representation of what goes on amongst larger groups of football fans. The whole conspiracy theory stuff is commonplace within football, so get a few football fans together and yep, you're gonna have it.

Whilst I would understand and support the motives behind a gentleman's agreement, at the same time I think it would be a fine line, especially in my case as a United fan. How far do we go? Surely we can (and do, with a number of posters quite often) have intelligent discussions about things without resorting to silly 'Fergie runs the FA'/ 'you're just jealous of success' statements, which are the ones that annoy me. Whilst I comment on decisions for both mine and other clubs, (I think) I do so without appearing to have the same dig about the same thing to the same people every week about a team that I don't support.

 

[Donny Dave]

I note that you have mentioned Cove Rangers from the Highland League and would note that two former members of that league, Inverness Caledonian Thistle and Ross County, are actually now members of the Scottish Premiership and the other clubs from that league have held their own in the lower divisions of the Scottish League.

Probably because there isn't much difference between the standard of non league players in Scotland and those in Division 3 and the bottom half of Division 2. Going by Football Manager 2013 (so the possibility of an error or 6 here), players at some SD2 and all SD3 clubs are on amateur contracts, same as those at non league clubs. As these players have to work for a living as well as play football, their training time is limited.

I note what you say, but we do not see weekly inquests upon questionable decisions involving Stoke City, Norwich City and West Bromwich Albion to name but three other teams in the Premiership. I am sure that many questionable decisions are made in matches involving those three clubs, but this forum sees a deathly quiet about those decisions.

I've said it before, and I'll keep repeating it. I'm an armchair pundit, and I'll look at those decisions that everyone else is talking about, and give my opinion about them. Judging by the lack of comments from others saying my opinions are wrong, I guess I'm doing a pretty good job! :P

Anyway, I don't usually comment on all the Premiership games, as there is only so much football I can watch each week! (And after watching Scunthorpe United get mullereed most weekend in the last 2 or 3 years, my appetite for football is somewhat diminished )

Overall, I do try to be fair and give credit where it's due (for example, the lengthy post I made about various EPL teams youth setup), and criticise when needed. Sometimes I do get it wrong, but hey, I'm only human and an armchair pundit ....