Football

[MidnightFlyer]

I believe you may have missed the light heartedness in that post SS4 I note you also did the same with my Ibrahimovic nose thing a while ago.

 

[Phil6219]

This article/blogspot thing on the BBC Sport website hits the nail squarely on the head...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20490257

It says that nobody is directing their anger and frustrations out on Abromovich because without his investment Chelsea wouldn't have won multiple FA Cups, League Cups, Premiership Titles and now the Champions League. That it is still worth it in the long run to keep him there regardless of the revolving door of managers that is beginning to make Manchester City's string of Managers look rather reasonable...

Only Man Utd could put up a statue of someone that's still alive....

Yes indeed, sadly the old git is still clinging on. Before anyone tries to jump down my throat, I would actually show respect to him if it wasn't for his blatant bias, sticking his red nose into everything, fergie time, disregard for the media, disregard for the fans of other teams, thinking he is the best thing in the sport and the biggest sin of all, encouraging the united fans to carry on all of the above.

One day he will have a coronary on the touchline when the officials give a correct call against his team, and on that day many will laugh. (Was kinda hoping 6-1 would have at least got the ball rolling, taking the title in fergie time should have finished the job off). I guess evil never dies :/

Phil

 

[Butts]

There's a statue of Sir Geoff Hurst, Martin Peters, Ray Wilson and Sir Bobby Moore at the bottom of Green Street opposite the Boleyn pub. Three of them are still alive.

Perhaps Roman will put a statue of himself outside Stamford Bridge - if he did one for each Manager the sculptures would be rubbing their hands

 

[Ivo]

Perhaps Roman will put a statue of himself outside Stamford Bridge - if he did one for each Manager the sculptures would be rubbing their hands

Now that would be impressive! (I assume you mean "sculptors".)

I don't agree with the criticism of the SAF statue. He's managed MU for 26 years and turned them into a genuine major force for Heaven's sake! Who knows where they might have been now if it hadn't been for the 1990 FA Cup - the Championship?

As for West Sham (sorry EM2 ), I think they had the right idea too. And were it not for Moore's cancer, for all we know all four of those guys that EM2 mentioned may still have been alive today.

By the way, isn't there a Bobby Charlton statue somewhere? Last I checked he was still a Director at OT!

 

[Butts]

Now that would be impressive! (I assume you mean "sculptors".)

I don't agree with the criticism of the SAF statue. He's managed MU for 26 years and turned them into a genuine major force for Heaven's sake! Who knows where they might have been now if it hadn't been for the 1990 FA Cup - the Championship?

As for West Sham (sorry EM2 ), I think they had the right idea too. And were it not for Moore's cancer, for all we know all four of those guys that EM2 mentioned may still have been alive today.

By the way, isn't there a Bobby Charlton statue somewhere? Last I checked he was still a Director at OT!

Yes I did mean sculptors.....

 

[bb21]

They may be foolish but not stupid - you don't bite the hand that feeds you

I doubt the opinion of the fans will have a big impact on Abramovic's decision on investment in his plaything.

Having a rich owner comes with its own problems, although I am not in a position to complain.

 

[Butts]

I doubt the opinion of the fans will have a big impact on Abramovic's decision on investment in his plaything.

Having a rich owner comes with its own problems, although I am not in a position to complain.

Why is your wife wealthy

 

[Clip]

Great way to show support for your team.

He hasn't even managed a game yet FFS. Maybe they want the whole team to fail just so that they could get him out?

Why not direct the anger at their owner?

Because of all the rubbish that Benitez had said about Chelsea when he was manager at Liverpool.

Chelsea players know the fans well enough that they support them but not the manager.

 

[bb21]

Why is your wife wealthy

Since Bournemouth got a wealthy Russian as a backer, I am no longer allowed to make fun of fellow football fans with a sugar daddy, otherwise it makes me look a little hypocritical.

Because of all the rubbish that Benitez had said about Chelsea when he was manager at Liverpool.

Chelsea players know the fans well enough that they support them but not the manager.

They could always do it after the game. Don't get me wrong. I'm not a fan of his, just found it a bit silly in the middle of a game.

Football fans can be fickle. Many of those booing will undoubtedly love him if he brings them success somewhere down the line. The level of abuse is quite shocking to me. After all he is the manager now so booing him is hardly going to be constructive.

 

[balne-wonderer]

Leicester are visiting Elland Road tonight, I suspect normal service will be resumed after the brilliant win against Palace.

We never beat Leicester and they flying high so take a point from this one. MOT.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

This article/blogspot thing on the BBC Sport website hits the nail squarely on the head...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20490257

It says that nobody is directing their anger and frustrations out on Abromovich because without his investment Chelsea wouldn't have won multiple FA Cups, League Cups, Premiership Titles and now the Champions League. That it is still worth it in the long run to keep him there regardless of the revolving door of managers that is beginning to make Manchester City's string of Managers look rather reasonable...



Yes indeed, sadly the old git is still clinging on. Before anyone tries to jump down my throat, I would actually show respect to him if it wasn't for his blatant bias, sticking his red nose into everything, fergie time, disregard for the media, disregard for the fans of other teams, thinking he is the best thing in the sport and the biggest sin of all, encouraging the united fans to carry on all of the above.

One day he will have a coronary on the touchline when the officials give a correct call against his team, and on that day many will laugh. (Was kinda hoping 6-1 would have at least got the ball rolling, taking the title in fergie time should have finished the job off). I guess evil never dies :/

Phil

Fergie Time has become accepted within the game which just goes to show how people have become completley de-sensitised to Man Utd being given an advantage by refs.

Fergie might have done a decent job but lets not forget at one point he was almost sacked and during the 90's and early 00's he had access to funds that no other manager did. How many times did Man Utd break the british transfer record? That was all well and good for Fergie to do but then he starts moaning about Chelsea's and Man City's spending! Hypocritical old fool.
He had a prolonged period of a pretty much a free reign in the transfer market. People tend to forget that.

His refusal to speak to the BBC for so long was just childish as was his recalling of his loan players from Preston after they sacked his wife beating son. Fergie went into mind games overdrive at the back end of last season, when it looked like Man Utd had the league won he couldn't help himself and made constant jibes about "those noisy neighbours accross the city" It came back to bite him on the backside big time, I didn't laugh at all I promise

Man Utd currently lead the PL table by one point.......that Chelsea game and the shocking decisions has put them there. Sickening.

 

[Oswyntail]

Because of all the rubbish that Benitez had said about Chelsea when he was manager at Liverpool.

Chelsea players know the fans well enough that they support them but not the manager.

Could you enlighten us about that "rubbish"? I can't recall that much.
Given John Terry("Legend")'s little training ground gesture yesterday (how very brave, how very outspoken. Abramovich must be quaking) it becomes clear what is going on. Chelsea players wanted DiMatteo because he was one of the lads and wouldn't do unforgiveable things like drop them, and don't like Benitez because his brief is to start rebuilding, like V-B.

 

[Donny Dave]

Fergie might have done a decent job but lets not forget at one point he was almost sacked and during the 90's and early 00's he had access to funds that no other manager did. How many times did Man Utd break the british transfer record? That was all well and good for Fergie to do but then he starts moaning about Chelsea's and Man City's spending! Hypocritical old fool.
He had a prolonged period of a pretty much a free reign in the transfer market. People tend to forget that.

The way Fergie went about his transfers even then was to buy just 1 or 2 players to improve his squad, even back then. Yes he was spending a lot of money on those players, but how much have Man City spent, firstly under Mark Hughes, followed by Mancini on new players since they got their oil money?

How much did the special one spend when Abramovic took over?

Man City have had to fiddle the books a bit to make sure they complay with the financial fair play rules, while Chelseas have just declared their first profit in the Abramovic era (this is after losses approaching £100 million in the first 3 seasons after he took control).

Manchester United however, make a profit most years (if not every year), so which club is doing the best finance wise?

Man Utd currently lead the PL table by one point.......that Chelsea game and the shocking decisions has put them there. Sickening.

I've made a couple of posts now about the Chelsea v Man Utd game, and it's my opinion that the referee got most of the decisions right.

I have noted in the past that you have said you have no ill feelings towards Manchester United, but yet again, we see another post from you lambasting the club ....

 

[Phil6219]

Manchester United however, make a profit most years (if not every year), so which club is doing the best finance wise?

Unless I'm missing something isn't it true that they are several hundred million pounds in debt? If so, is it also true that they are only claiming to make profits by selling shares in the US and Asia (remarkable considering how they effectively forced the original shareholders out), also what about the amounts of interest they were paying off several years ago (something along the lines of £95 million per year, even the money from the sale of ronaldo didn't cover the interest).

That was all well and good for Fergie to do but then he starts moaning about Chelsea's and Man City's spending! Hypocritical old fool.

Good points all round.

One thing that I find rather hypocritical is that following the initial talks regarding financial controls in the Premier League it was only Arsenal & Man United that wanted them implementing. Even the smaller clubs were against it, could this be because if such controls were implemented there would only be two clubs who could actually benefit from it (Arsenal has been very good finance wise and is a perfect example of a top PL club with complete control of its finances - that said they have been in a decline over the past few years though that is not the end of the world).

To go back to financial controls for a moment, how come they want a break even rule? So a club like Manchester City (who are not in debt and for the sake of debate have pretty much infinite money from their owner) will be hampered by the rules and whatever controls the league implement (transfer market restrictions or not being allowed to play in certain competitions) meanwhile a club like Manchester United who are several hundred million Pounds in debt are allowed to continue. How fair is that?

Granted there is a gulf between the top spenders and the rest but that's just the way it is. If tighter controls were implemented here or in Europe then the top players will simply move to leagues elsewhere.

Phil

 

[atomicdanny]

Unless I'm missing something isn't it true that they are several hundred million pounds in debt?

meanwhile a club like Manchester United who are several hundred million Pounds in debt are allowed to continue. How fair is that?

Granted there is a gulf between the top spenders and the rest but that's just the way it is. If tighter controls were implemented here or in Europe then the top players will simply move to leagues elsewhere.

Phil

In the case of Manchester United, they are actually repaying the debt and making a profit at the same time. I believe it was currently at something like £350 million the last time i heard, but I'm sure that there are lots of people who will say that Manchester United deserve a 50 point deduction (slight exaggeration here I know) and kicked out of the league for ever. (its not like the case of Portsmouth or Rangers where they couldn't pay their debts at all, Man Utd do make money that is why they are allowed to continue!)

Also balne-wonderer clearly your views are biased against Manchester United that you can't see or ignore when these decisions happen against Manchester United (I bet if Leeds were given a dodgy decision which I'm sure they probably get lots of, like most Clubs you would say that it was correct but as soon as Manchester United get say one dodgy goal in a 5-0 win you would say the referee gave them the win...)

 

[Ivo]

Unless I'm missing something isn't it true that they are several hundred million pounds in debt? If so, is it also true that they are only claiming to make profits by selling shares in the US and Asia (remarkable considering how they effectively forced the original shareholders out), also what about the amounts of interest they were paying off several years ago (something along the lines of £95 million per year, even the money from the sale of ronaldo didn't cover the interest).

You are a City fan I believe? If no, forgive me - but if yes, it would explain this attitude.

It wasn't the club's fault that they fell into huge debt after some American nobodies decided they wanted to buy the club. But actually, the debt aside the club are doing tremendously well, and most fans are supportive of the Glazers and how they are happy to let SAF et al continue as before. And of course they are able to make huge payments on the debt on a regular basis; using Danny's quote of £350M half of it has been repaid in just seven years! The only way City could do that is if the oil barons used the money that their own country's workers have generated as a plaything...

...oh wait.

The United situation is vastly different to others. It is like the UK as a whole - the debt may be substantial, but it is considered perfectly safe.

 

[SS4]

A minutes applause at Leeds United's ground in memory of Gary Speed. Well observed too.

Now I was going to listen to QPR on 5Live but I can't stand Alan Green so I'll have to put myself closer to a heart attack and listen to Villa on BBC WM.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
A draw at Loftus Road Stadium of Light will be the best result for us I reckon.

 

[Phil6219]

You are a City fan I believe? If no, forgive me - but if yes, it would explain this attitude.

Yes I am indeed a Manchester City fan, have been since I was a youngster (as in stuck by them when we were relegated repeatedly, even went to Wembley on that fateful day back in '99). Some might consider my attitude a bit OTT, but when you have spent your entire life getting stick from the extreme red fans I consider it justified. Anyway...

For the record I was against the takeover of United by the yanks, I figured that the club would begin to fail and it would give the fans something to harp on about for several decades. It seems through a bit of luck on their owner's part that the reverse has happened and that they had become stronger (until other clubs leveled the playing field - at the top at least, by spending big). Of course the debt shouldn't have been lumbered on the club in the first place, I still struggle to understand how a leveraged buy out is actually allowed to take place in any industry (and I understand them along with various other takeovers) then again I still cant wrap my head around how he managed to de-list the company given how many shareholders had revolted and refused to sell (again I understand a fair bit).

I see your similar point to Danny but will use that quote as it has a little bit of personal relevance to myself.

In the case of Manchester United, they are actually repaying the debt and making a profit at the same time. I believe it was currently at something like £350 million the last time i heard, but I'm sure that there are lots of people who will say that Manchester United deserve a 50 point deduction (slight exaggeration here I know) and kicked out of the league for ever. (its not like the case of Portsmouth or Rangers where they couldn't pay their debts at all, Man Utd do make money that is why they are allowed to continue!)

A 50 point deduction is a little bit beyond extreme (even from my perspective) but to be honest the people making such comments are a bit beyond extreme. Indeed they are paying off their debt, the thing is while they are breaking even whilst doing this what would happen if their debt was suddenly called in?

Several years ago back when the sky was blue and the birds were chirping, I used to be an air steward. My airline was of a reasonable size (not exactly a "fly by night" carrier if you would excuse the pun), we were in debt (£139 million I think - I really can't remember anymore as I've sadly erased a good chunk of that part of my life) but we were paying it back quite well and were considered one of the most profitable charter airlines in the UK, a few of what was considered "The Big Four" (in the early '90s) were loosing money through their noses at that time. The financial crisis hit, one airline folded, the banks got worried and demanded the whole lot. Needless to say they didn't, in fact since everything was leased they got sod all. Our lot, well we all ended up jobless. My point is however, we were in debt and were paying it off steadily, we would have had it paid off within 18 months and yet on the banks whim they called it in and it was game over.

What would happen if the same happened to united? I'm sure it would be sold off as a going concern as (I hate to admit it) the club is an extremely valuable asset.

Phil

 

[Trainfan344]

In the case of Manchester United, they are actually repaying the debt and making a profit at the same time. I believe it was currently at something like £350 million the last time i heard, but I'm sure that there are lots of people who will say that Manchester United deserve a 50 point deduction (slight exaggeration here I know)

Why not give them a 50 point deduction, they might end up with less points than derby did when they got relegated.

 

[Donny Dave]

Indeed they are paying off their debt, the thing is while they are breaking even whilst doing this what would happen if their debt was suddenly called in?

Several years ago back when the sky was blue and the birds were chirping, I used to be an air steward. My airline was of a reasonable size (not exactly a "fly by night" carrier if you would excuse the pun), we were in debt (£139 million I think - I really can't remember anymore as I've sadly erased a good chunk of that part of my life) but we were paying it back quite well and were considered one of the most profitable charter airlines in the UK, a few of what was considered "The Big Four" (in the early '90s) were loosing money through their noses at that time. The financial crisis hit, one airline folded, the banks got worried and demanded the whole lot. Needless to say they didn't, in fact since everything was leased they got sod all. Our lot, well we all ended up jobless. My point is however, we were in debt and were paying it off steadily, we would have had it paid off within 18 months and yet on the banks whim they called it in and it was game over.

What would happen if the same happened to united? I'm sure it would be sold off as a going concern as (I hate to admit it) the club is an extremely valuable asset.

Phil

The airline industry is a lot different from football. A sudden loss of confidence (for whatever reason) will see passengers desert an airline. However, a loss of confidence by fans in Manchester United will not matter too much, as with their fan base, they will still fill Old Trafford week in, week out. Also, how much do Man Utd rake in each year from fans around the world buying replica shirts/kits/etc? Also, TV and prize money. Despite being knocked out of the Champions League in the group stages last season, their earnings from that will still have been in the region of £30-35 million, plus what ever prize and TV money earned from the Europa League (around £5m).

The club is a global business, with a fan base to match. While it is earning the revenue it is, I can't see any bank/lender calling in the remaining ~£350 million of debt.

Now, if it was a club like Scunthorpe United however, with debts of (for example £5 million (fortunately, the club is debt free, with plenty in the bank still)), I could see that getting called in, as A. The clubs revenue is only £3.7 million, and B. The club is currently loss making.

 

[Trainfan344]

BREAKING NEWS!!!

Rafael Benitez has been sacked by Chelsea due to poor relations with the fans and a run of poor results, Chelsea have already confirmed his new replacement.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...2836764.118593.504937036191057&type=1&theater

 

[SS4]

BREAKING NEWS!!!

Rafael Benitez has been sacked by Chelsea due to poor relations with the fans and a run of poor results, Chelsea have already confirmed his new replacement.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...2836764.118593.504937036191057&type=1&theater

That spelling and grammar physically hurts

edit: to clarify, I mean in the picture

 

[Phil6219]

That can't be, Mr Bean is managing Arsenal and has done for years...

Phil

 

[SS4]

Screw how we played, those three points is what goes onto the record

 

[MidnightFlyer]

And Elgin have been fined £25,000 for their cock-up at the weekend...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20520382

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Fergie Time has become accepted within the game which just goes to show how people have become completely de-sensitised to Man Utd being given an advantage by refs.

I wonder if I am the only one who listened to the recent Radio 4 programme in which the matter of "Fergie Time" was discussed, with interviews from now-retired referees and it would appear that not just Manchester United, but other top teams in the Premiership, seem to have this laxity of refereeing time at home matches.

The comparison was made in the programme about what happens if two of these top teams in the Premiership play each other and it was stated that even at that level, it would be the side playing at home who would have this particular advantage. None of the referees could give a reason why this occurs, but only that it does.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Most definitely a very bad night for me tonight ... on both fronts....

League 1

Doncaster Rovers 1...Oldham Athletic 0

FA Trophy ... Ist round replay

Barrow 1...Hyde 0

 

[bb21]

Doncaster Rovers 1...Oldham Athletic 0

So the two wins on the trot were really just delaying the inevitable of Dickov's departure.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

So the two wins on the trot were really just delaying the inevitable of Dickov's departure.

Long gone indeed are gone are the days when Oldham Athletic under Joe Royle had a refreshing approach to adversity...1-0 down with ten minutes to play....Answer : take off the centre-half and both full backs and replace with three extra forwards. Amazing how many times this approach worked with wins or draws then forthcoming...

Mind you, the plastic pitch helped a lot in those days.

 

[balne-wonderer]

In the case of Manchester United, they are actually repaying the debt and making a profit at the same time. I believe it was currently at something like £350 million the last time i heard, but I'm sure that there are lots of people who will say that Manchester United deserve a 50 point deduction (slight exaggeration here I know) and kicked out of the league for ever. (its not like the case of Portsmouth or Rangers where they couldn't pay their debts at all, Man Utd do make money that is why they are allowed to continue!)

Also balne-wonderer clearly your views are biased against Manchester United that you can't see or ignore when these decisions happen against Manchester United (I bet if Leeds were given a dodgy decision which I'm sure they probably get lots of, like most Clubs you would say that it was correct but as soon as Manchester United get say one dodgy goal in a 5-0 win you would say the referee gave them the win...)

The last line is telling danny and it's a trap that many fall into. EVERY team gets bad decisions in their favour, be in Man Utd, Leeds, Man City etc

However, the decisions that go in Man Utd's favour more often than not are the CRUCIAL decisions that turn a game. Man City got a dodgy pen against Villa but they were already leading and Villa were poor. Man Utd got a clearly offside goal against Chelsea that put them 3-2 up and that was after Torres was wrongly dismissed. Against Liverpool they got a joke a penalty, against Wigan they got given a penalty for an horrific dive by Welbeck at 0-0. It's these decisions that turn 0 points into 1 and 1 point into 3. It's the BIG decisions that actually affect results that go in Man Utd favour, this season these big decisions have already seen them gain an extra 7 points already. Many have always said that refs are worth around 10-12 points a season to Man Utd.

 

[richw]

The last line is telling danny and it's a trap that many fall into. EVERY team gets bad decisions in their favour, be in Man Utd, Leeds, Man City etc

However, the decisions that go in Man Utd's favour more often than not are the CRUCIAL decisions that turn a game. Man City got a dodgy pen against Villa but they were already leading and Villa were poor. Man Utd got a clearly offside goal against Chelsea that put them 3-2 up and that was after Torres was wrongly dismissed. Against Liverpool they got a joke a penalty, against Wigan they got given a penalty for an horrific dive by Welbeck at 0-0. It's these decisions that turn 0 points into 1 and 1 point into 3. It's the BIG decisions that actually affect results that go in Man Utd favour, this season these big decisions have already seen them gain an extra 7 points already. Many have always said that refs are worth around 10-12 points a season to Man Utd.

But do other teams get as many dubious decisions that we don't hear or see simply because man utd always has considerably greater tv coverage so is in spotlight more?

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk 2

 

[ACE1888]

Return to form last night with a 4-0 thumping of Hearts at Tynecastle, good performance, Frazer Forster, once again making some great saves, including a penalty save at the end.
On other matters, not a surprise to see Beckham STILL attention seeking about his services being wanted by 'several Premier League' clubs Zzzzzzz... :roll: